Check Engine Light Help

[pookamatic]

I did get it back together Thursday night I think and what do ya know? ALL parts arrived from partzilla yesterday. What a joke. Oh well, I'm putting everything new on tonight or tomorrow.

As far as the voltage thing goes, I'm aligned with yamihoe. Looks like a one time thing. Voltages have held well since. Since I sit in traffic a lot, I raised the idle to 1250 so I won't be losing as much. Might put in a bypass for the dual headlight.

I'll update the other thread once I get the cooling parts in.

 

[FB400]

Hey guys seems like you all are experts on Check Engine Light.. so I hope you don't mind I would revive this thread for a repeat discussion

I had my CEL come on for the first time ever today.

I was stuck in a mother of traffic jams this morning (fricken GWB bridge construction) for probably a total of 30 minutes. I did some lane splitting but was mostly stopped. Temperatures were typically a little high considering the bike was not moving. The fan came on. I wasn't really concerned with coolant temperature and once got moving temperature came down to 2-3 bars - textbook normal.

The CEL would come on for a little while (usually less than a minute at a time) then go off when the revs came up. This was repeated probably 5 or 6 times. Once I got on the highway it was perfect. I stopped for breakfast for about 30 minutes. When leaving the bike started fine. no CEL. Rode 35 miles home all highway and no traffic. Bike runs perfect.

Only extra stuff I am running is:
1) run dual HID 55watt projectors (which are supposed to draw less than halogens)

2) also have Hyperlites for brake lights (long periods with my brake lights on)


Thanks
FB

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hey guys seems like you all are experts on Check Engine Light.. so I hope you don't mind I would revive this thread for a repeat discussion

I had my CEL come on for the first time ever today.

I was stuck in a mother of traffic jams this morning (fricken GWB bridge construction) for probably a total of 30 minutes. I did some lane splitting but was mostly stopped. Temperatures were typically a little high considering the bike was not moving. The fan came on. I wasn't really concerned with coolant temperature and once got moving temperature came down to 2-3 bars - textbook normal.

The CEL would come on for a little while (usually less than a minute at a time) then go off when the revs came up. This was repeated probably 5 or 6 times. Once I got on the highway it was perfect. I stopped for breakfast for about 30 minutes. When leaving the bike started fine. no CEL. Rode 35 miles home all highway and no traffic. Bike runs perfect.

Only extra stuff I am running is:
1) run dual HID 55watt projectors (which are supposed to draw less than halogens)

2) also have Hyperlites for brake lights (long periods with my brake lights on)


Thanks
FB

Most FZ6's at about 1,200 RPM's without the fan is just barely charging the battery.

Add in the fan kicking on, I don't know what your idle is set at, if below 1200-1300, the light coming on, with what symptoms you state, it likely it came on as the system wasn't charging.

You can either try kicking up the idle a hair, or if stuck in traffic like this is NOT OFTEN, you can just hold the throttle a little bit higher (1,300 RPM's).

With a voltmeter attached to the battery, sitting and idling will show if your charging or running off the battery. 12.8 volts or so, its the battery your running on, above 12.8 volts, your system is charging (your good!)

 

[FinalImpact]

Can you pull the code? If its just a low voltage code it looks like we've covered it. Do to the limited output of the charging system, it may be wise for some to have an option to drop one light when stuck in traffic with the fan on.

A low voltage cut off switch would do the trick. Or us with a fairing and stock lighting can pull a plug on one lamp.

These come to mind; #46 as the ECM knows there is low voltage and continues. #43 is a lack of data. A different issue.

#46 Vehicle system power supply (Monitoring voltage)
Power supply to the fuel injection system is not normal.

#43 Fuel system voltage (monitor voltage)
The ECU is unable to monitor the battery voltage (an open circuit in the line to the ECU).

 

[FB400]

Thanks guys. I was thinking it was a charging system thing. I had my battery go dead enough a year ago because I got stuck in long traffic (no CEL though).

How exactly does a noob find out the code(s)?

btw, idle is set around 1200-1300 when hot

I may update the hid headlight wiring to be dual relay (over the winter). That way I can simply add a toggle switch and turn one off if needed.

 

[Nelly]

I did get it back together Thursday night I think and what do ya know? ALL parts arrived from partzilla yesterday. What a joke. Oh well, I'm putting everything new on tonight or tomorrow.

As far as the voltage thing goes, I'm aligned with yamihoe. Looks like a one time thing. Voltages have held well since. Since I sit in traffic a lot, I raised the idle to 1250 so I won't be losing as much. Might put in a bypass for the dual headlight.

I'll update the other thread once I get the cooling parts in.

I am seriously considering installing a bypass switch for the dual headlight. Where would you place the switch? My battery is flat in four days if I don't use the tender. I have a Datatool system 4 alarm installed and would really like to get the bugger removed. The dual lights do make a cold start difference with my machine.

Nelly

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I am seriously considering installing a bypass switch for the dual headlight. Where would you place the switch? My battery is flat in four days if I don't use the tender. I have a Datatool system 4 alarm installed and would really like to get the bugger removed. The dual lights do make a cold start difference with my machine.

Nelly

Neil,

The cold start with the dual lights SHOULDN'T make a difference as they don't light up untill the engine is actually running. I suspect the alarm may be drawing a bit much or something else is. IMHO, I'd at least un-wire the alarm and see what happens(just pull the fuse at least-should be one in-line)..

As a side note, I have the BD43 dual mod, my idle set at 1,000 RPM's, and don't have any issues with charging or holding a charge.. With that said, I don't do much sitting/idleing in traffic either...

*Should you want a switch, a simple water proof switch (I'd look for marine grade), probably attached thru the inner black fairing (drill a hole thru the plastic), then tap (cut the low beam wire, the added line on the right side) and connect the switch in-line thru that wire.

You'd then, with a flick of a switch, be able to allow voltage to the RS low beam (or no power).

 

[FB400]

Allright let me ask a basic question -

Would it be better to wire the toggle switch to the relay's positive trigger wire?

Seems like running the toggle switch off the positive battery terminal feed could burn out the switch. The fuse for my HID system is 20 amp and all the marine switches I am looking at are rated for 15 amps.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Allright let me ask a basic question -

Would it be better to wire the toggle switch to the relay's positive trigger wire?

Seems like running the toggle switch off the positive battery terminal feed could burn out the switch. The fuse for my HID system is 20 amp and all the marine switches I am looking at are rated for 15 amps.

I suspect it would. I don't know how its wired, (or the actual wiring..) but can you separate the two HID's? But yes, killing power to the trigger wire would be easier on the system...

My above post was towards Neils, I believe he has a stock BD43 dual headlight set up, (just the factory relay) and regular two element bulb in the right side...

 

[FB400]

I suspect it would. I don't know how its wired, (or the actual wiring..) but can you separate the two HID's? But yes, killing power to the trigger wire would be easier on the system...

Thanks TownsendsFJR.
A standard HID system usually includes a relay harness that also controls high/low solenoid. (although some people plug the ballasts staight into the headlight sockets - a bad idea) The 12v juice goes into 2 ballasts - 1 for each side There is also an ignitor built into the ballast assembly. Essentially you are using the leads from the headlight socket to trigger the relay and then deliver power to the ballasts which in turn make the bulbs work.

I've wired these things more than a few times so I am comfortable enough to make my own custom harness. Plans are to have a 2 relay system - 1 for each side. That way if one relay goes out I don't lose both headlights. I would wire in a toggle switch to the left side to make it easy to reach while riding.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks TownsendsFJR.
A standard HID system usually includes a relay harness that also controls high/low solenoid. (although some people plug the ballasts staight into the headlight sockets - a bad idea) The 12v juice goes into 2 ballasts - 1 for each side There is also an ignitor built into the ballast assembly. Essentially you are using the leads from the headlight socket to trigger the relay and then deliver power to the ballasts which in turn make the bulbs work.

I've wired these things more than a few times so I am comfortable enough to make my own custom harness. Plans are to have a 2 relay system - 1 for each side. That way if one relay goes out I don't lose both headlights. I would wire in a toggle switch to the left side to make it easy to reach while riding.

Thanks, sounds like it would work fine. Smart idea having it wired two ways so as you have as you stated, you have a back up...

And "Scott" please (its in my signature) :thumbup:

 

[FB400]

Thank you Scott!!

Ok guys so it is confirmed. code 46

I ran the bike at idle for about 30 minutes. It got plenty hot and the fan was running much of the time.

Once the CEL came on I let it run a good 10-15 minutes more.

Voltage readings I was getting seem a little bit low:

idle 1300-1400: 12.18
2000: 12.31
3000: 13.0
4000: 13.8 (ish)

I turned the bike off and attempted to restart it but battery was too low.
I get console display and the fan still was running healthy.
Console code: 46 which I know was throrughly discussed here.


-> C'mon experts!! is this a weak stator here?

 

[FinalImpact]

With the #46 confirmed I'd like you test the DC output for AC signature. This would help determine if its the Regulator Rectifier (RR) vs the stator. The stator outputs alternating current (a sign wave). The rectifier part of the RR uses diodes to clip the peaks leaving the DC output which the Regulator limits to 13+ volts. As you point out, some more forgiving than others. Perhaps a simple test can see the effectiveness of the RR.

Set your meter to AC and and measure the RR output while charging at RPM (at the battery). IMO a bundle of copper wire (stator) is not much of a variable from bike to bike. However the electronics or the diodes internal to the RR are a variable.

For those of you who are stuck in real world traffic, run dual head lights, and end up with drained batteries this test may show the weakness if we can gather enough data.

The value will be very low likely 0.025vAC on a good case. Can you measure yours and report back. Also let us know what meter you used and what it was set at. You'll want the lowest AC setting listed i.e. less than a volt peak to peak if it offer that option.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

From the tech section, sticky's:

Fault Code: 46
Diagnostic Code: --
Symptom: Power supply to the FI system is not normal.
Probable cause of malfunction:
Malfunction in "CHARGING SYSTEM".



+1 on what Randy posted as well.

Your charging system is definitly Not up to snuff.

 

[FB400]

With the #46 confirmed I'd like you test the DC output for AC signature. This would help determine if its the Regulator Rectifier (RR) vs the stator. The stator outputs alternating current (a sign wave). The rectifier part of the RR uses diodes to clip the peaks leaving the DC output which the Regulator limits to 13+ volts. As you point out, some more forgiving than others. Perhaps a simple test can see the effectiveness of the RR.

Set your meter to AC and and measure the RR output while charging at RPM (at the battery). IMO a bundle of copper wire (stator) is not much of a variable from bike to bike. However the electronics or the diodes internal to the RR are a variable.

For those of you who are stuck in real world traffic, run dual head lights, and end up with drained batteries this test may show the weakness if we can gather enough data.

The value will be very low likely 0.025vAC on a good case. Can you measure yours and report back. Also let us know what meter you used and what it was set at. You'll want the lowest AC setting listed i.e. less than a volt peak to peak if it offer that option.

Randy - ok so these are great instructions. Aside from my charging system problems I dropped my multimeter and it appears to be broken - so another one is already on order. (it was a junk Ebay unit anyway.. served a purpose for a few years). I will gather whatever data I can (with your help here) as I am hoping this will help others who may experience this same issue.

A word of caution though - much of what you say in the first paragraph is way over my head. Expect me to come back with novice nooby questions

Thanks bro

As a footnote: I let the bike charge on the tender (deltran Jr - 0.75 volts). It only took about 30-45 minutes to have the battery strong enough to start the bike (cranking/start sounded textbook normal)

 

[FinalImpact]

Looks like your best bet is to drop a light when you know you'll be sitting. The charging systems power in available WATTS is the breaking point. The design doesn't offer much extra above its original design (1 head lamp) and us adding extra loads like an extra head light (55 watts) pushes the system limits to a point of loosing current and dropping voltage at low RPMs.

Your best action for now is to rig up that switch and manually drop a light. However there are option to do this automatically based upon battery voltage alone. I'm headed out for the day but google 12v low voltage cut off circuit and I bet you find some reading and ideas. I'm guessing there is an "off the shelf" solution for a fairly cheap.

I'm stuck in traffic and idling too but my bike is not affected so far. Its sitting with dual head lights (110 watts) plus the fan on but if I had to guess, the fan is never on for more than 4 or five minutes at a time. Idle speed is 1100 RPM. My saving grace is I hit open roads past town and rev it for last 10+ minutes before being parked. Still has the stock battery from Feb 2008 and has NEVER been on a tender or changer since I bought it in early 2011.

 

[FB400]

Allright. I will give the turning off one headlight thing a try. I ordered a couple marine toggle switches along with a new multimeter from Amazon. I do like the sound of automatic cutoff so I will research that.

Once the multimeter gets here maybe a good thing to run the test you describe a couple posts back.

Since I was able to recreate the CEL code 46 coming on in my garage, I suppose the next thing I will do is turn one headlight off and repeat the 30 minute idle test and see what happens. (sometimes the simpler solutions are the best).

FB

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Here's a thread that may help clarify:


http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/49904-bike-wont-start-again.html#post547347