cant start engine after winter & timing change changin

[MichaelFZ6]

Hello forum!
I am from Russia and need some help. Hopefully we wlll solve my problem.

I have fz6 2006, 73k kilometers "mileage". I decided to change a timing chain due to noise and mileage. Due to many reasons I had to let the bike in the cold garage with opened engine cover (it was covered by some clothes and a moto-cover). It stayed for about 5-6 months with median temperature of -5 degrees Celsium but 2 weeks we had a cold time with -20.

A week ago the temperature raised to about ~10 degrees Celsium so I finished the assembly and tried to start it. Here is the video :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQRPlOxjDSk&feature=youtu.be Interestingly that I received a message on russian facebook that some guy did the same job and having the same issues.

We are sure that we installed timing chain correctly on our bikes (we did it separately from each other). But we have little idea why its not working. My friend also installed new engine sparks and tried to dry them.

So please give me some pieces of advise what should I do to start it.

 

[Motogiro]

:welcome: to our great forum!

Let's assume you have the valve train timing correct. Do you smell fresh raw fuel from the exhaust? Are you getting a spark? Inspect wiring. Many vehicles left through winter months become a nest for rodents. They gnaw through wiring and build nests in air boxes etc.

 

[fazil]

Did you try to start it with full throttle?

 

[JJS209]

do you hear the sound of the fuel pump when you switch it on?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

do you hear the sound of the fuel pump when you switch it on?

I didn't hear the pump come on when he turned on the ignition. Michael, can you advise?

 

[MichaelFZ6]

Thanks for the discussion! We have 12 hours lag, so here is my answers:

> Do you smell fresh raw fuel from the exhaust? Are you getting a spark? Inspect wiring. Many vehicles left through winter months become a nest for rodents. They gnaw through wiring and build nests in air boxes etc.
no, exhaust is completely silent. I did not smell it though. Once I had a small "fart" out of one of them, nothing else. I'm going to inspect wiring by the diagnostic function embedded in the fz6. We have a warm house with many food near to the garage, so rodents live there

>Did you try to start it with full throttle?
Also no, but going to. I dont know much about engines but during the week I read that such method used on injector ones to dry the spark plugs. But does it work on motorcycles? I read only about cars.

>do you hear the sound of the fuel pump when you switch it on?
Yes, it sounds like usual. Everything is working like usual, I mean dashboard, lamps, fuel pump.

My friend is desperate, he has more time than me and said that he has tried everything and he is going to dissassemble all the engine to look at oil rings, because they might be "glued" (dont know how to translate it). I very much hope its not the case :/

 

[payneib]

do you hear the sound of the fuel pump when you switch it on?

I didn't hear the pump come on when he turned on the ignition. Michael, can you advise?

It's definitely priming, both times.

As someone else has said, it seems to me like it needs a good fist full of throttle on start. Mine usually does after the engine has been open, even just doing the sparks.

 

[MichaelFZ6]

Ok I decided to look through the manual once again and found this on the page 5-15
how to install cams
1. align crankcase with T mark
a. turn it clockwise
b. when the 1st piston in the TDC align crankcase with T mark again.

I dont get this. If I get the piston to the TDC I will reallign it by turning the crankcase again, rigth?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

First, tell you friend tell leave his rings alone!!!!!!!!

Re cranking to dry the plugs. Yes, it does work. Simply hold the throttle WIDE OPEN and crank 7-10 seconds at a time. DO NOT CLOSE the throttle inbetween. Repeat if necessary. Make sure your battery is fully charged -DO NOT jump start off a RUNNING CAR BATTERY- (just a non running car battery is ok)



Re checking the timing-

The valve cover has to come off. The side cam chain cover has to come off.

#1 cylinder(all the way to the left), has to be at TDC on the COMPRESSION STROKE.- crank the engine by hand, plugs out, feel compression build up in #1 and line up mark on crank / block. (The intake lobes are facing away from each other on #1). Your NOW set to check.

Cam marks should point to the outside lined up with the HEAD SURFACE.

The cam chain to the exhaust cam SHOULD BE TAUGHT (with the exhaust) when all aligned up.

With the exhaust set, the chain should also be taught to the INTAKE CAM.

All slop in the chain will be at the back run where the tensioner / rear guide is. Install the CCT and re-check your marks

 

[MichaelFZ6]

>#1 cylinder(all the way to the left), has to be at TDC on the COMPRESSION STROKE.- crank the engine by hand, plugs out, feel compression build up in #1 and line up mark on crank / block. (The intake lobes are facing away from each other on #1). Your NOW set to check.

ок will try it tomorrow!

Also I found this at the manual page 3-11 Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet , so it looks right your sentence. But after that I looked at wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_engine and on the compression stroke lobes are pointed at each other (not away)). It confuses me. What is right?

 

[MichaelFZ6]

>The intake lobes are facing away from each other on #1

I looked at the manual and found Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet . Is it correct? Also I checked the theory of engine at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_engine but here on compression stroke lobes are pointed at each other. It confuses me a lot. What is right?

 

[MichaelFZ6]

ok will try it. also I found the pic in the manual So it should look like this on the 1st cylinder and crankcase at T mark?

 

[FinalImpact]

Left side, valves closed on Cyl #1, crank on TDC #1

Sprocket to heads valve cover aligns both marks.

T mark aligns to case split...

If its building compression, its likely something else...

Either manually add fuel to each throttle body and try and start it OR verify it has spark by pulling a plug, insert the plug in cap and lay the plug body on the header. Press the start button. After about two full crankshaft revelutions you should see purple white spark jump the gap.

If your engine is not builing compression, now we have trouble.

 

[FinalImpact]

Did you unplug the coils power and ground? Any chance they are reversed from one coil to the other?

Sitting on the bike. Left to right...
Plugs are 1, 2, 3, 4. Are yours in this order?

 

[erburtt]

The cams should have their little mark lined up with the head and facing away from each other like this, note how they're opposing and the marks are level with the head



and the T mark should line up with the crankcase like this (note my bike has ~65,000 km at this point so the cam chain is a tab bit stretched, so the T mark is slightly above the crankcase line)



I did my valves, had my timing look like this when I reassembled, and it fired right up, no need for full throttle or anything. I did have my battery on a tender for the couple days I had it out of the bike to do this work. I had all the spark plugs out, exhaust cam out, and turned it over repeatedly with a socket (clockwise). Like I said it started up like it always had and happily idled for 15 minutes or so. I've put like 500 km on it since and it feels completely normal (a little more powerful and linear throttle with the exhaust valves shimmed to proper spec).

So double check your timing is set up like this, and make sure all your electrical connections have been reattached from when you had it all apart.

It also sounds a bit like what my friends bike sounded like (also a FZ6) when he had some water in his fuel, is there a chance some condensation built up in the tank and contaminated your fuel? Do you put a fuel stabilizer in for when it sits over the winter?

 

[erburtt]

Looks like FinalImpact beat me to it, oh well, extra pictures to look at anyways

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

PM sent which will clear up what I said however, what I posted is correct. Its been discussed a gaziilion times here just on this forum.

Check your PM's.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

ok will try it. also I found the pic in the manual View attachment 66242 So it should look like this on the 1st cylinder and crankcase at T mark?

That pic is correct...

 

[MichaelFZ6]

>If its building compression, its likely something else...
its building because it quite hard to turn it with crankcase and there is some puffing noise So I think there is a compresison.

>Sitting on the bike. Left to right...
Plugs are 1, 2, 3, 4. Are yours in this order?

yea I made a photo about it and the wires has numbers on them.

>It also sounds a bit like what my friends bike sounded like (also a FZ6) when he had some water in his fuel, is there a chance some condensation built up in the tank and contaminated your fuel? Do you put a fuel stabilizer in for when it sits over the winter?

no but we are going to change the fuel to new.

 

[FinalImpact]

Please read this post.... It talks about everything being discussed here... Including assembly and checking after the cams have been out...


How to Adjust Valve Lash, step by step w/pic

Add raw fuel to Throttle body and see what happens...

And what was the comment about a Puffing Noise? From where? Intake or Exhaust? Regardless, it doesnt sound proper...

Did all of your marks align as illustrated? And after turning it 720°, did they still align?