bike won't start after crash

[kiki_bandit]

Ok, guys, hopefully somebody will be able to help me solve this because I'm not able to find what is wrong for past 3 days. Some history: bike is 2004 Fazer, cca 36K km on the clock. It ran great, no starting problems, no errors, just perfect. Then I crashed it 10 months ago, badly. Aftermath was broken frame, bent forks, front discs, fairings shattered to million pieces, bent exhaust headers, cut wires from ignition and cooling fan. Teared everything down, replaced frame, wheel, rotors etc. Tried to start the bike, ignition on, fuel pump not priming, no spark, engine cranks fine. Fuses ok, fuel pump relay(the big one under seat, left side) ok, fuel pump ok(tested everything with multimeter, gave the pump 12V). No error on the dash, oil, engine, neutral light working fine, oil and engine goes off after abut one second. Last light(red one with key symbol, i believe it's for immobilizer) not working. Temperature reading on the dash id high with last square blinking, and air temperature is showing 50C. There is no break in the wires from immobilizer receiver on the ignition lock to ECU unit. Tip over sensor on the right side ok. Only thing I noticed is that there is no ground from ECU to fuel pump relay (blue/yellow wire). Tried 2 different keys and red key also, and I can't enter diagnostic(select+reset thingy). So that is it, hopefully someone is able to help me because taking bike to stealership is my last resort.

 

[dxh24]

Spitballing but did you inspect/replace the kickstand sensor. Half the time on bikes that have them and won't start, seems like that little bugger is to blame

 

[kiki_bandit]

Kickstand sw, kill sw, clutch sw are all in order, every one of them will not allow the engine to crank at all if engaged. So the problem must be somewhere else.

 

[FinalImpact]

Sounds like you need a manual it has on the specs and ways to test each part. The tip over switch can be mounted upside down so confirm the arrow is UP.

PS - our bikes dont have a immobilizer so I can't offer much but all the things misbehaving make it seem like something is wrong. You need to systematically determine what is OK and what is broken.

With a volt meter see if the coils have battery voltage with key on. If they do, the injectors should also be alive and it may push start. << If these are true then something is tripping the starter relay circuit to think its in lock out. But that doesn't explain the dash being all funky.

 

[Motogiro]

Could very well be the ECU sees a high temperature and is keeping the the symphony from playing our favorite song. For example, fuel injection, coils and fuel pump relay need ground through the ECU but the ECU thinks you're trying to start a bike that is very overheated. Find out why and repair or emulate a resistance where the temperature gauge looks normal. Then see if the bike starts. The ECU may be protecting the engine. You may have something miss wired?

 

[kiki_bandit]

I'll remove temp sensor tomorow and check it, hopefully it is something simple as that. My worst fear is that ECU ot immo has gone bye-bye, not the cheapest parts to replace. IDK if fz6 and r6 have similar system, 'cause I fund on SBK one guy that had same symptoms as mine, and after some troubleshooting he found damaged wire from immo or ignition, something like that. I think I'll have to pull everything apart again and check the wires, given the fact that they have been severed in crash, maybe I missed damaged one somewhere. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[kiki_bandit]

Problem solved, everybody! And it was, of course, human error. Immobiliser connector has six wires, and 2 of them are black, so naturally I swapped them when I was cleaning the harness. So if anybody ever has the following symptoms:
- fuel pump not priming
- no spark
-no ground on yellow/blue wire from ECU to pump relay
- engine cranking
- no red LED for immobiliser on dash board
-engine temperature maxed
- no error on display
- can't enter diagnostic with select+reset combo

Then check the main switch/imobiliser wires, and you will most likely find your problem.

But now that I sorted that, new problem appeared. IDK if I should post this in a different section of the forum as it is fuel related. Anyways, what is checked and confirmed to work fine: Fuel pump, both initial priming and while engine is running, fuel flowing nice; spark ok, new spark plugs in, fresh fuel too. When cranking it will not start(3 batteries sucked dry while trying to start it), occasionally it will cough like it woul like to roar, but no go. When spraying starter fluid, or pouring small amount of gasoline into intake it will start and run shortly. That brings me to conclusion that not enough fuel is entering the system. Took down injector rail and cranked the engine to check the injectors, they are squirting gasoline, but it looks kinda weak. Tomorrow they are getting ultrasonic cleaning, hopefully that will do. In the meantime, anything else that could cause this kind of a behavior?

 

[FinalImpact]

^^
Good job finding the first fault!
How old is the gas? Is it what was in there a year ago?

Applying 12 DC to the injectors will hold them open and you can back flush them with air or solvent. Any chance you have them swapped from the correct position?

Also, do you have an electrical schematic?

 

[kiki_bandit]

Fuel I tried to start the bike is fresh from today. But IDK if the leftover fuel from the crash evaporated and left some gunk behind while bike was sitting. I was thinking about applying voltage to the injectors, but was little afraid that I would damage something. Also, do they have some kind of microfilter inside of them, or I can just open them and shoot few PSI from compressor? And when you say swapped from the correct position, on what are you reffering excatly? Cylinder position or upside down? I was under the impression that it doesn't matter which injector goes where, and upside-down orientation was correct. I will still take them to ultrasonic cleaning just to be on the safe side, PO never did that and gas here is just plain filthy. Oh, and as for schematics, I'm using service manual for that.

 

[sloring]

lol your 9 yr old bike with 36000km was totaled and you chose to try to repair it? It would have been smarter to just buy another bike don't you think??

 

[kiki_bandit]

What can I say, I'm sentimental guy and I like my bike lol The thing is, it was the best solution financially wise. Average pay here id about 600$/month, and used FZ6 goes from 4.5-5K$ up, while all the repairs came at 2-2.5K$ tops. And now I know what is good and what is wrong on this bike as if I'm first owner lol

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If the fuel tank rusted up inside from sitting, its possible to have crap (rust) in the fuel pump/filter, restricting flow.

If you pull the pump out of the tank, there is a NON-replaceable filter. If its crapped up, you may be able to clean it with an air compressor. The first pic shows (the red arrows) the release tab's

 

[kiki_bandit]

Tank was full of some stuff, it reminded me on dried up resin, but I cleaned it. There was no rust. Fuel pump was taken apart and cleaned, filter itself was pretty clogged. Something like picture you posted.

 

[FinalImpact]

I was just referring to the electrical connections. I know the plug wires are numbered, not sure about the injector wires. Also - DO NOT apply voltage in a manor so as to feed energy back into the ECM. Just go directly to the injectors.

Way to hang in there and win the battle! Good Job!

 

[Motogiro]

lol your 9 yr old bike with 36000km was totaled and you chose to try to repair it? It would have been smarter to just buy another bike don't you think??

Many people enjoy learning and the challenge of using their knowledge to repair and salvage things in our world that are worthy and put into service. The neat thing is when these type people help others using their knowledge. We can all give back to our community and it extends beyond just cyberspace into our homes, neighborhoods and workplace.

I'm grateful to the people who take on these challenges as well as the people that take their time and give their input, experience and knowledge to help others.

If you think about it, this is an international community that spans many personalities, cultures and economies.

I think what he's doing is perfect! :rockon:

 

[FinalImpact]

Many people enjoy learning and the challenge of using their knowledge to repair a salvage things in our world that are worthy and put into service. The neat thing is when these type people help others using their knowledge. We can all give back to our community and it extends beyond just cyberspace into our homes, neighborhoods and workplace.

I'm grateful to the people who take on these challenges as well as the people that take their time and give their input, experience and knowledge to help others.

If you think about it, this is an international community that spans many personalities, cultures and economies.

I think what he's doing is perfect! :rockon:

Well said my friend! :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So is it running now and if so, the believed, final culprit?

 

[kiki_bandit]

Didn't get the injectors done today, other things kept me from bike whole day, hopefully tomorrow I'll have something to share with you guys. But I would like to thank you all for the support and taking your time to help with great advices. People like all of you make the world better place.

 

[kiki_bandit]

quick update, injectors were clean, so the only thing left is fuel pump again. ATM I'm trying to find someone with the same bike and just swap tanks, if the bike starts then it must be low pressure from my pump. Has anyone taken apart one? I'm guessing some kind of rubber seals/o-rings inside could dry up and start leaking?

 

[FinalImpact]

quick update, injectors were clean, so the only thing left is fuel pump again. ATM I'm trying to find someone with the same bike and just swap tanks, if the bike starts then it must be low pressure from my pump. Has anyone taken apart one? I'm guessing some kind of rubber seals/o-rings inside could dry up and start leaking?

A kinked hose would likely allow it to run but fail under load like pulling above 4000rpms. So after it primes you could verify pressure on the rail but it takes special banjo bolt and gauge. Only runs 35psi so if you crack the bolt loose after priming it should make a pretty fair spray pattern. Use EXTREME CAUTION so as to not make sparks or spray yourself until it evaporates.
Again do this with key off, after pump primes. Also are you sure you have a signal at the injectors? Should be a DC 12v pulse...