bike won't start after crash

[kiki_bandit]

Also are you sure you have a signal at the injectors? Should be a DC 12v pulse...

I believe that I have because they are spraying while cranking the engine. Will have to make something to check pump pressure, basically I would need an pressure gauge and some way to attach it to where xcatly? does the pressure has to be measured on the rail or it can be taken on the pump itself?

 

[FinalImpact]

I believe that I have because they are spraying while cranking the engine. Will have to make something to check pump pressure, basically I would need an pressure gauge and some way to attach it to where xcatly? does the pressure has to be measured on the rail or it can be taken on the pump itself?

If you're positive there are NO obstructions between the rail and pump, it should work. The FSM says to use the "FUEL RAIL".
Yamaha Tool Set PN:

Pressure gauge
90890-03153
YU-03153

Fuel pressure adapter
90890-03176
YM-03176

Not that ^^ that helps you.... And its: 250 kPa (36.3 psi) (2.5 kgf/cm²) not 35 as I listed above.

Also the manual says to check the Fuel pulsation damper. I would assume it can only leak vs obstruct but it doesn't appear to specify.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

quick update, injectors were clean, so the only thing left is fuel pump again. ATM I'm trying to find someone with the same bike and just swap tanks, if the bike starts then it must be low pressure from my pump. Has anyone taken apart one? I'm guessing some kind of rubber seals/o-rings inside could dry up and start leaking?

Not long ago, a member had a bad fuel pump. He purchased a new (used)one from another member (known to be good).

Put it on the bike, still didn't run (same issues as yours). He brought the bike to the dealership, they said it was the pump and thus replaced it. Runs fine now. (The member did get his $ back W/O issue). That used pump did indeed pump fuel, apparently just not enough...

I've never pulled one apart although I'd like to, especially to see about making that fuel filter servicable..

To my knowledge, no one here has had one apart (I have to suspect its likely assembled with heat) so you can't pull it apart, all the way down to bare bones...

Fuel in the tank helps keep the pump cool, if the tank is run low often, it'll likely shorten its life...


Please read post #91 specifically:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/garage-mechanical-help/48043-2004-fz6-fuel-pump-failure-10.html

 

[kiki_bandit]

Well, if the pump proves to be bad(and I'm guessing it will) I'll take it apart and document everything with plenty of photos. It's the least I can do after all the help I'm getting from all of you guys.

 

[kiki_bandit]

Went to the stealership today to see if they can check fuel pressure, the mechanic was pretty cool guy actually, he told me that he doesn't believe that the pump is busted because it is still pumping fuel, but rather that the pressure regulator was the culprit. What do you guys think about that? And where is the regulator anyways? That little flying saucer-shaped thingy on the fuel rail looks like regulator to me, am I right or wrong?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Went to the stealership today to see if they can check fuel pressure, the mechanic was pretty cool guy actually, he told me that he doesn't believe that the pump is busted because it is still pumping fuel, but rather that the pressure regulator was the culprit. What do you guys think about that? And where is the regulator anyways? That little flying saucer-shaped thingy on the fuel rail looks like regulator to me, am I right or wrong?

That flying saucer is the "Fuel pulsation dampner", not a regulator.

To my knowledge (and checking the Genuine Yamaha 07 SHOP manual) there is no separate presssure regulator.

There may be something built in the fuel pump, but there is no regulator to replace.

BTW, the previous post about the good/bad pump did indeed pump fuel too (just like yours) but either not enough or not enough pressure(more likely).

With the proper Yamaha tools the fuel pressure can be easily checked:

pressure gauge: 90890-03153 YU 03153
adapter: 90890-03176 YM 03176

Pressure should be 36.3 PSI.

 

[kiki_bandit]

Guys!! The bike is alive!! I'm so happy to hear it running, words can't describe it. And it was fuel regulator, as all of you suspected. Now, I took pics while dismantling the pump, but my camera had different plans and for some reason not a single one was taken, so I am sorry for not keeping my promise. But the good news is, regulator itself can be replaced. I borrowed few pics from the web to show you where the little bugger is located, first one is on R6 pump, but it is the same on FZ6. The red circle is where regulator is hiding. To take it out you need to pull pretty hard as it has an o-ring that keeps it stuck in there firmly. O-ring itself is big so no worries about damaging it.



This is the regulator, made by Denso:



This is how I think the pump works, sorry for the lousy Paint work(this is actual FZ& pump, red circle shows the regultor again). The pump pulls fuel thru the filter and fills the little "tank" inside it(curvy green line) Fuel then goes into main delivery pipe(straight green line). The pipe goes two ways, to the fuel rail and injectors and to the regulator. If the regulator is fine, he is closed and allows the pump to obtain working pressure. But if it's faulty(stuck open in my case) it will let the fuel thru and back to the tank, thus not letting the pump get to the pressure needed.



So what I did was sprayed lots of WD40 in the regulator and then firmly connected the base of the regulator with the solid surface of the asphalt(yes, I hit it hard few times on the ground ), and that dislodged it. Now the bike fires up if it just sees the key from 5 yrds and runs like it was never crashed. Now I'm going to connect rest of the electricity(lights, dash etc) and then of to make up for the time I wasn't riding. And here's one of the bike, I'll take more after I finish everything:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Guys!! The bike is alive!! I'm so happy to hear it running, words can't describe it. And it was fuel regulator, as all of you suspected. Now, I took pics while dismantling the pump, but my camera had different plans and for some reason not a single one was taken, so I am sorry for not keeping my promise. But the good news is, regulator itself can be replaced. I borrowed few pics from the web to show you where the little bugger is located, first one is on R6 pump, but it is the same on FZ6. The red circle is where regulator is hiding. To take it out you need to pull pretty hard as it has an o-ring that keeps it stuck in there firmly. O-ring itself is big so no worries about damaging it.



This is the regulator, made by Denso:



This is how I think the pump works, sorry for the lousy Paint work(this is actual FZ& pump, red circle shows the regultor again). The pump pulls fuel thru the filter and fills the little "tank" inside it(curvy green line) Fuel then goes into main delivery pipe(straight green line). The pipe goes two ways, to the fuel rail and injectors and to the regulator. If the regulator is fine, he is closed and allows the pump to obtain working pressure. But if it's faulty(stuck open in my case) it will let the fuel thru and back to the tank, thus not letting the pump get to the pressure needed.



So what I did was sprayed lots of WD40 in the regulator and then firmly connected the base of the regulator with the solid surface of the asphalt(yes, I hit it hard few times on the ground ), and that dislodged it. Now the bike fires up if it just sees the key from 5 yrds and runs like it was never crashed. Now I'm going to connect rest of the electricity(lights, dash etc) and then of to make up for the time I wasn't riding. And here's one of the bike, I'll take more after I finish everything:

Excellent!

Very interesting information too. I suspect that was the issue with the other pump (mentioned previously). Excellent digging BTW and repairing..I'll be saving this thread for future use, it will definitly help other with fuel pump issues..

Moderators, perhaps making this a sticky in the appropriate location?

 

[FinalImpact]

Excellent!

Very interesting information too. I suspect that was the issue with the other pump (mentioned previously). Excellent digging BTW and repairing..I'll be saving this thread for future use, it will definitly help other with fuel pump issues..

Moderators, perhaps making this a sticky in the appropriate location?

Personally I'd opt for very concise trouble shooting steps in a new thread and STICKY that! A common link for the troubles we know of, then item specific threads which makes a problem statement, a way to verify the problem, and very specific means of fixing the problem (What was done here).

An index with links that are concise and not full of ideas and blah blah blah for 30 posts so the reader doesn't have filter to the bottom. Make sense?

IMO: Hold off Sticky but Credit is due and will be given in the grand scheme of things...

Good Job kiki_bandit! :thumbup::thumbup:

Although none of us have YAMAHA Banjo fitting/Pressure Tap, etc - if you crack that fuel rail bolt loose after the pump runs, there will be HIGH pressure there (spraying dangerously) if the pump can build high pressure. If it dribbles the pump is not building pressure. That leads to pump tear down and inspection.

Rep Point headed your way for your effort!

 

[kiki_bandit]

Thank you, guys. In a perfect world nobody will need information posted here, but as the world is far from perfect I'm glad to help somebody.

2FinalImpact: to which bolt are you referring xcatly? I do not recall seeing one, did I miss something? But that would indeed be great way to check for pressure(carefully, of course).

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thank you, guys. In a perfect world nobody will need information posted here, but as the world is far from perfect I'm glad to help somebody.

2FinalImpact: to which bolt are you referring xcatly? I do not recall seeing one, did I miss something? But that would indeed be great way to check for pressure(carefully, of course).

Per the Yamaha shop manual (07-09 manual, page 7-6), they check the pressure with an adapter that's plugged into the FUEL LINE after you disconnect it from the fuel rail.

I don't know about a separate bolt on the rail..

 

[FinalImpact]

Thank you, guys. In a perfect world nobody will need information posted here, but as the world is far from perfect I'm glad to help somebody.

2FinalImpact: to which bolt are you referring xcatly? I do not recall seeing one, did I miss something? But that would indeed be great way to check for pressure(carefully, of course).

Per the Yamaha shop manual (07-09 manual, page 7-6), they check the pressure with an adapter that's plugged into the FUEL LINE after you disconnect it from the fuel rail.

I don't know about a separate bolt on the rail..

You guys are both correct. There is no banjo fitting, I saw it somewhere else. For home use the best bet would be to buy the hose from the tank to the fuel rail to have as a spare and then splice and T (with proper clamps and fitting, as we don't need leaks) and fuel pressure gauge into it.

However another option would be fuel tubing rated at 50 PSI or more and simply clamp it over the tanks outlet. Run the other end to the fuel pressure gauge and leave the bike out of the equation. If the bypass is stuck open or the pump can not meet the 36 PSI, it will show here.