Basic Battery Question

[exit12]

Hi All,

I have no car/bike mechanical knowledge and just learning so sorry if this is all basic.

I have an 88 FZ600 and the eyelet on the positive battery cable snapped off over the weekend. I managed to wedge the remainng part of the eyelet in between the bolts to ride back home.

I want to replace the whole positive cable. Is this easy to do, and does the other end of the positive cable also just screw on to the starter?

I'm trying to learn the basics and fix simple things myself to save time and money and I have to start somewhere......

Can anyone advise?

Cheers

 

[thieu]

Hello
I obviously dont know exactly how the cable is run on your bike but i would almost guaranty that the positive cable does not go strait to the starter. if it did how would you get the feed to the rest of the bike? It's going to be much easier for you to clip off and replace the eyelet :thumbup:

 

[BrianFlynn]

The positive lead goes directly to the starter motor on all mechanical motors, it needs the full power of the battery to turn the engine over, as above mentioned it would be easier if you have enough spare cable to attach or best solder on a new eye, but replacing the cable should be simple enough!

 

[Ryan T]

+1 Thieu

It'll be easier to replace the connector. If I'm understanding correctly. The only concern the length of the cable, will it still reach? If so, then it should be easy. If not, then you'll have to do some research, find out how long it is and where it connects and then get a new one.

Good luck. You'll be able to get the help you need from the forum. It's like a living/breathing/talking/ service manual.

 

[exit12]

Thanks a lot for the replies, appreciated.

I did think about replacing the eyelet but wasn't sure if I would need special tools to crimp it \ solder it back on, or how I would go about connecting the eyelet back to the cable.......hence my reason for just getting a whole new cable.

If I knew how to connect the eyelet then this would definately save a lot of extra work.

Cheers

 

[RJ2112]

I'd be concerned with all the other connectors on the bike, as well.

We're talking about nearly 20 year old connections on electrical circuits that have likely been exposed to a certain amount of moisture, with different metals in contact. High probability of corrosion. Especially in the area of the lead acid battery... any battery out gassing that has occurred over the decades, will deposit sulphuric acid in the general area, as well.

Some of the preventative maintenance you should do, while you're in that area, is to neutralize those acid deposits. Mix a couple of tablespoons of baking soda into a glass of water, and stir it up until dissolved. then pour that over the battery connectors. If it fizzes up, let it do so, then rinse it off with fresh water. Repeat, until it doesn't fizz when you apply the baking soda wash.

I'd think an automotive battery shop should have cable in roughly the correct gauge, and the connectors. You may find it's easier to splice on a short length of new cable with a new connector...... but I would start all of this with checking Yamaha to see what a complete replacement cable is going to set you back.

 

[exit12]

There is still a good bit of reach on the cable, and it reaches the battery no probs, hence my temp fix of wedging it on with a bolt....but no saying when it will dislodge itself, on the main road knowing my luck.

Can I just use any red battery cable from the local Hardware store here?

e.g...
Halfords Battery Cable Red 22cm (9") from Halfords Price £3.49

making sure i get a good size etc..

If i go down the getting a new eyelet route, whats the standard practise for connecting it back to the cable, replacing the old one?

Thanks

 

[RJ2112]

There is still a good bit of reach on the cable, and it reaches the battery no probs, hence my temp fix of wedging it on with a bolt....but no saying when it will dislodge itself, on the main road knowing my luck.

Can I just use any red battery cable from the local Hardware store here?

e.g...
Halfords Battery Cable Red 22cm (9") from Halfords Price £3.49

making sure i get a good size etc..

If i go down the getting a new eyelet route, whats the standard practise for connecting it back to the cable, replacing the old one?

Thanks

Most high current, thick cable connections are a compression type mechanical bond between the wire, and the connector. Usually, there's a tool involved that crimps the contact onto the wire. Kind of like a pair of bolt cutters... the jaws are set to only penetrate so deep, to ensure the contact doesn't shear the wire strands, but still makes positive contact with the entire bundle.

Not a hard job, but one that requires the right tool to do correctly.

 

[exit12]

Thanks a lot for all the replies.

What seems basic to some is just the start of learning for others, so I appreciate all the advice.

Going to get the crimping tool and some eyelets and try doing this myself, will also get a whole new cable just so I can familiarise myself with both ways.

Cheers

 

[macem29]

manufacturers crimp the cable ends on beause it's cheaper than soldering,
soldering however produces a far superior connection electrically speaking
and strength speaking....do you know a car repair garage in the area? they
would likely have the materials lying around and make/repair a cable for ya
for pocket change if you don't have the facilities to do it yourself

 

[RJ2112]

manufacturers crimp the cable ends on beause it's cheaper than soldering,
soldering however produces a far superior connection electrically speaking
and strength speaking....do you know a car repair garage in the area? they
would likely have the materials lying around and make/repair a cable for ya
for pocket change if you don't have the facilities to do it yourself

You'd have to wonder why Yamaha uses all those crimped on contacts on all those connectors on all those wires in the harness on all those bikes they've been building for all those years....... Just like Honda, Suzuki, BMW, etc., etc.

The biggest problem with soldering really thick fine strand cables is trying to generate enough heat to melt the solder, without melting the insulation protecting the wire. That fine wire conducts the heat, really well.

Mechanically, solder may make a more positive connection between the two points you connect..... but it also eliminates any flexibility. The wire immediately outside the solder is subject to all of the bending forces on the wires..... if there is no vibration, or any sort of flex on that connection, all can be well. Add some vibration, and that joint 'oil cans'.

Additionally, what sort of solder was used? Rosin core, acid core? Most have some acid in them to get the solder to stick to the conductor better..... where does that acid go? It's right there, where the solder ends, and all the vibratory stress may be attacking the wires. (Strain relief is a really, really good idea.)

A mechanical crimp, done correctly, is every bit as effective as solder for providing a robust connection between conductors. Much less likely to damage the insulation, or introduce corrosive compounds to the wiring, too.

 

[macem29]

You'd have to wonder why Yamaha uses all those crimped on contacts on all those connectors on all those wires in the harness on all those bikes they've been building for all those years....... Just like Honda, Suzuki, BMW, etc., etc.

I don't wonder, think I said it right here:

"manufacturers crimp the cable ends on beause it's cheaper than soldering"

but I like the essay, almost got me believin'

 

[RJ2112]

I don't wonder, think I said it right here:

"manufacturers crimp the cable ends on beause it's cheaper than soldering"

but I like the essay, almost got me believin'

Believe what you want, it's a free world.

I worked in avionics for a lot of years.... look at wiring harnesses. You'll see crimps a lot more frequently than you will solder. Weight is sometimes the factor, but you know an aircraft cannot forgo reliability to get it. If there's vibration, crimps are often a better solution.

If you look at high current applications.... household wiring, etc.... you don't see much soldering going on there, either. Obviously, a crimp can handle significant current flow. Have you ever seen an arc welder cable (6 AWG, or 4), that has contacts soldered on to it? I've done a number of patch panels for master electricians that were all done with crimped contacts. 20,30 50 ampere circuits.

Printed circuit boards, sure. Fast simple, repeatable. Wave soldering and IR ovens can do that with fantastic repeatability. And really low labor costs. Make that cheaper.

 

[urbanj]

Yup, soldering is not the way for the reasons RJ stated. Caterpillar has a 10 pound spec pretty much for their crimping connections. If it can take 10 pounds of pulling force the crimp is good to go. Soldering almost always will cause problems on stuff that vibrates and bounces a lot. eg, bikes and heavy equipment. Not saying it can't be done but it's not "industry standard".

 

[macem29]

ok, those are two guys that I know to be technically bright so I'll graciously
concede that a crimp connection is a good connection for a multi-strand
conductor, but I'm gonna keep soldering my battery cable ends anyway,
too old to learn new tricks now

 

[RJ2112]

It's taken me a really long time to 'come around' to crimped connections. Just seems so much more satisfying to make that metal to metal contact with molten metal.

I worked with a guy with a doctorate in failure analysis while at Intel.... right around the time the switch to lead free solder was all the rage. Helped with doing cross sections, and X ray analysis of various interconnects.... learned quite a bit about thermal stress cycles, and a whole lot about the manufacturing processes involved in consumer electronics. It's a fascinating world.

 

[urbanj]

Yeah it doesn't seem good at first but the connections really hold. I really like using the heat shink connectors for outside connections. The heat shrink glues itself to the wire and make it feel more secure. as well as water proof.

Also a good set of crimpers and strippers goes a long way. I have separate snap on crimp tool which I find makes a higher quality crimp regardless of the kind of connector used. Just my opinion though.

 

[RJ2112]

Yeah it doesn't seem good at first but the connections really hold. I really like using the heat shink connectors for outside connections. The heat shrink glues itself to the wire and make it feel more secure. as well as water proof.

Also a good set of crimpers and strippers goes a long way. I have separate snap on crimp tool which I find makes a higher quality crimp regardless of the kind of connector used. Just my opinion though.

The right crimping tool makes all the difference. Goodness knows I've done it poorly enough times! Results are much, much more consistent.... clamping force is what it needs to be, and the connectors don't get mashed. The right stripping tool, and the right crimping tool are well worth their price, if you do any amount of wiring.

If the tool has the presets to make sure the dimples are the right depth, and the wire is inserted correctly, so the secondary clamp grabs the insulation to provide the strain relief, all that 'oil can' stops right there. The insulation dampens out the vibration like a bushing does in a suspension system.

A stripping tool that doesn't nick the wires..... that makes ANY connection you make, much more reliable.

Any crack anywhere, just gets bigger with vibration. If you nick the outside 20% of the stands in a wire, that's near half the conductors that may or may not make intermittent contact. (there's very little doubt that nick can propagate a crack.) Variable resistance, possible onset of corrosion, effectively smaller gauge wire that heats up more than the designers budgeted for.