An Update on Yamihoe.....

[yamihoe]

Have a listen and tell me if you guys think its running properly. It's been so long since I heard it run right that I cant tell lol
and of course my FZ isnt here to have a comparison to :spank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig6rKfwrcD4

 

[iviyth0s]

I'm no R1 rider but it sounds normal to me?

 

[lawlberg]

Have a listen and tell me if you guys think its running properly. It's been so long since I heard it run right that I cant tell lol
and of course my FZ isnt here to have a comparison to :spank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig6rKfwrcD4

You're fine man - bike sounds good.

 

[yamihoe]

WTF. I put the bike totally together, it started knocking and doing the same bullsh!t. I bet the timing chain skipped a tooth, that stupid cct must be bad.
I am so tired of this.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

WTF. I put the bike totally together, it started knocking and doing the same bullsh!t. I bet the timing chain skipped a tooth, that stupid cct must be bad.
I am so tired of this.

Did you put an "APE" unit in the R1? Sounded fine in the audio posted..

Were there previous problems with the R1?

 

[yamihoe]

I didnt do jack. its the oem tensioner. it sat for a week, then it started running crappy, I had to put it in the truck to get home. Tore it all apart and checked the valves, 1 valve had a shim that came loose and was sitting sideways under the cap, I fixed it and all the valves are within spec, set the valve timing and started it up, sounded fine, revved up fine. so I put the rest of it back together (airbox, all the covers, radiator, seat, etc) started it up to go ride and it sounded like it was knocking/tapping AGAIN. the only thing I can guess is that the timing chain skipped a tooth somewhere.
im so frustrated, I kinda wanna cry.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I didnt do jack. its the oem tensioner. it sat for a week, then it started running crappy, I had to put it in the truck to get home. Tore it all apart and checked the valves, 1 valve had a shim that came loose and was sitting sideways under the cap, I fixed it and all the valves are within spec, set the valve timing and started it up, sounded fine, revved up fine. so I put the rest of it back together (airbox, all the covers, radiator, seat, etc) started it up to go ride and it sounded like it was knocking/tapping AGAIN. the only thing I can guess is that the timing chain skipped a tooth somewhere.
im so frustrated, I kinda wanna cry.

I suspect the key is why is that shim coming out??? Somethings not right there...

I get those too, kinda rare, but everything you touch, just flat works against ya

Sounds like your run of crappy luck, is just lasting quite a bit longer...

Walk away from it for now, it'll still be there.


Get your head straight and start digging when your in the right mental state.. Take pic's, post, ask, you/the forum will get it going again!! :thumbup:

 

[yamihoe]

I just got finished tearing it back down to the cams...at TDC the intake cam IS 1 tooth off. the cct has to bad.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I just got finished tearing it back down to the cams...at TDC the intake cam IS 1 tooth off. the cct has to bad.

The R1 does have marks on the cam sprockets correct?.

Hopefully no other damage occurred, I would look into that shim issue thou, I think I read it came loose a couple times on you...


At least you don't have to pay a newbie mechanic $100+ an hour to screw up your bike... :thumbup:

 

[yamihoe]

the shim only came lose once,,,, just mentioned it alot. lol

is it possible that the timing chain is stretched?

I ordered another tensioner off the ebay tonight hopefuly next weekend I can spend my free time taking the motor back apart..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

the shim only came lose once,,,, just mentioned it alot. lol

is it possible that the timing chain is stretched?

I ordered another tensioner off the ebay tonight hopefuly next weekend I can spend my free time taking the motor back apart..

Chains do stretch (just like your drive chain), just wear and tear.

I would think the R1, with the HP/torque it developes would be harder on a cam chain than the FZ6 as the crankshaft, turning would pull harder, thus stretching it. I don't believe its terribly expensive and if in doubt, change it out, you already have the valve cover off. I'd also replace the rear guide (that the tensioner pushes on) as it takes the brunt of the CCT working.

I don't know how much longer the R1 chain is than the FZ, BUT, the longer the chain, the more stretch you'll get over time.

My old KLR 250, had a super long cam chain (overhead valves) and was stretched and slapping at 28,000 street miles (see below pic's). Replaced it and the rear guide (easily 3 times harder to do with than the FZ, between balancers, balancer chains, water pump, both side covers, valve cover, etc, all have to come off) with the ORIGINAL CCT, nice and quiet after that. The CCT sitting in the block extended, before and after showed how much it stretched as it wasn't even close to the block with the new chain, before, with the old chain, it was about flush...

BTW, I hope you purchased an OEM tensioner, I definitly WOULD NOT, TRUST a Chinese knock off.

 

[yamihoe]

yea i got a oem tensioner, but i had to take a gamble and go used :/

I just cant wrap my head around how the intake cam jumped a tooth forward

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

yea i got a oem tensioner, but i had to take a gamble and go used :/

I just cant wrap my head around how the intake cam jumped a tooth forward

The only thing I can think of, there was too much play in chain (stretched or not enough tension or both), under hard acceleration, the chain jumped on the rear, intake sprocket, thus the sprocket is NOW forward a tooth. (think that's right..). Too much slop in the rear run where the CCT picks up, or trys to pick up the slack in the cam chain.


Something I did when I replaced the cam chain in the above KLR 250 you may want to try.

With the cam chain set in correctly and then original CCT just set (NOT BOLTED in), into the block FULLY EXTENDED, see how far away from the block the mating surfaces are from each other. If its very close, the chain is stretched and/or the rear guide is worn out. Replacing with another CCT is just wasting your time.

In post #11, third picture from the top, (with the ruler), that picture was taken after the new chain was in and new rear chain guide. Before the new parts, that same tensioner, set the exact same way, the mating surfaces were almost to the block. Thus the tensioner, fully extended couldn't take up the slack with the old parts... Now that chain is probably twice as long as the FZ, but its the same principle.

Please post, if you would, (or take a pic) of the original CCT in the block just pushed in all the way possible, FULLY extended and take a measurement. Again, if its almost flush, some parts are worn out, the CCT won't fix that..

 

[yamihoe]

if its jumping around like that with zero load on the engine I can only imagine how it would react with the bike on the ground and under load.

with the tensioner unbolted the bolts just barely can touch the mating surface with a little force they cant even thread in, so I would venture to say the chain is not stretched that much.

I thought that the chain jumping forward would make the cam be back a tooth, since the engine is being rotated clockwise.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If the tensioner is that far away fully extended, I agree, the chain is likely ok. Just something to throw out there and see if it was something obvious.

On another thread, we spoke of the chain jumping, and Randy mentioned and I have to agree, if the chain was somewhat loose, (and was going to skip), it'd likely skip at the crankshaft, where ALL the torque is, pulling everything else...

***If I'm not mistaken, isn't the R1 CCT a combination oil pressure and spring, or oil pressure alone? (I'm terribly familiar with the R1 at all, just the principles).


I ask in that certain BMW's are using an oil pressure ONLY tensioner. It works fine once there's oil pressure, BUT while starting, some of the chains have jumped... BMW's fix was to make a guide to fit in the block so there was no room for the chain to jump(it wasn't a tensioner, just a guide). BMW wasn't paying for it, nor the install...(WTF?)..

 

[yamihoe]

I think its just a spring tensioner only, theres never any oil on it, other than the tip of the plunger.

the service manual details about turning a screw to compress the spring to allow you to install the tensioner to the block.

 

[ewink5]

Yeah,

She sounds good to me too! What was the temperature when you started up? If it's cold maybe should let it run awhile until engine warms up.

 

[yamihoe]

It's about dang time!!! Fedex lost the tensioner and then it showed up at my door Tuesday and I got it back in the garage and together Saturday. got some tiny leaks buttoned up and took her out Sunday. I THRASHED the life out of it on some closed roads so I could see how it was under load....shiftlight in 6th and still was pullin HARD. :rockon:
I had forgotten how quick it was lol

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It's about dang time!!! Fedex lost the tensioner and then it showed up at my door Tuesday and I got it back in the garage and together Saturday. got some tiny leaks buttoned up and took her out Sunday. I THRASHED the life out of it on some closed roads so I could see how it was under load....shiftlight in 6th and still was pullin HARD. :rockon:
I had forgotten how quick it was lol

Excellent! Did the newish tensioner quiet things up at all?

 

[yamihoe]

yup... it is back to normal. just the usual Yamaha tick lol
It just needs to stay that way.