All Obama supporters should watch this:

[FizzySix]

Look at russia...are they in serious trouble with their economy??? NO. Why??? Because their government know how to run their country in an efficient manner. ...while countries like Russia are sitting back and smiling, as you get weaker they get stronger.

What?!?! Warren Buffet and the rest of the world invest where? Scared money and smart money agree for once...

Historically, if we can bind up the government with an opposed presidency vs. congress (party irrelevent) the nation will likely prosper. The party doesn't matter, only the inability of government to take action, based on past performance of the market (which is no guarantee of future performance etc)

 

[rsw81]

For those talking about health care, I'd like to put in my perspective as a health care professional.

I can tell you that a socialized medical program will result in lower wages for physicians, period. With that, there is also lower rates of law suits, and thus lower malpractice insurance premiums. So, looking at the bigger picture, my take home income will actually be HIGHER. Additionally, there will be better health care for everyone in the country. I look at Sweden as the perfect example of a well run socialized health care platform. The patients are happy that they get free/affordable healthcare. The physicians are happy because they get paid better, have less paperwork, and get more time off a year.

Seems like a win-win from my point-of-view.

 

[nimzotech]

I lived in Sweden in the mid 80's. I loved everything about the country. I agree, that even though everyone pays high taxes overall the entire society lives better quality lives. I saw no bums on the streets, everything was super clean, no trash on sidewalks. Even back then they were very environmentally aware. I would see people recycling soda cans all the time. Scandinavia is cool.

 

[rsw81]

I also refuse to partake in the political rants between Obama vs McCain. They both would do a decent job, certainly better the Bush has.

The main reason I am voting Obama is because of whom McCain chose as his running mate. The fact is, McCain is an elderly gentleman with a history of multiple forms of cancer. Granted, he was treated and "cleared" of his cancer, but we all know that this can easily resurface at any time without warning. If he becomes ill for any reason, who will become president? Palin: the barbie doll on acid, as someone else already put it in this thread. I think she was the worst choice possible as a running mate. She is an ignorant, narrow-minded person that I find just plainly irritating to listen to. She has no idea what she is talking about and her neo-christian ultra religious perspective sounds all too familiar (ie: Bush). This is my opinion, I know some of you will disagree, and I am okay with that. But I refuse to vote for McCain, if not for other reasons, then purely this as a huge reason.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

I can't vote for either candidate, because I live on another planet (I'm too far away). I'm not a US citizen, either.

IF I COULD vote, I think it's cool that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii...

 

[BranNwebster]

I really don't like the label socialism, I like to call it what it is Social Justice. Why should someone be denied something because of the life they were born into. And I'm talking basic needs such as medicine and education.

Our current administration is privatizing profit and socializing debt. Heck now the big three car makers are looking for a hand out.

If McCain dies in office McPalin will be president and vice president would Nancy McPelosi.

 

[formula154]

How can anyone vote for somebody who doesn't ride? All these F4&9y7#&'ing politicians need to get off their ass and on an FZ6. THEN, we can start talking business!

The first smart thing that has been said on this thread.

 

[Cuba]

I was travelling on business so I missed the juicy bits here. Couple of comments though:

First off to assume that anyone will be better than the Bush Administration is dead wrong and rather pathetically naive. It can ALWAYS be worse, and quite possibly it will. To assume that Bush was responsible for the current credit crisis is dead wrong and you would do yourselves a favor to research the facts of the matter. 17 times he personally spoke out against Fannie and Freddie and warned of the extreme danger to our economy if they continued to grow and lend the way they have. It's easy to blame him though, it's nice and simple that way isn't it? Something the general public can understand, you can spoon feed it to them at this point. Nevermind that Obama was an attorney and a trainer for ACORN while they were using extortion to force private banks to make no money down loans to the utterly uncreditworthy- Bush is a bad guy so it was his fault too. Simple.

Secondly to the poster who stated that Obama is not giving money to non taxpayers- you're dead wrong. Something like 40% of Americans don't pay federal income taxes. Obama's proposals would actually GIVE THEM CASH THAT THEY HAVEN'T EARNED. My cash. Your cash. And truck loads from our employers and the wealthy. These aren't tax breaks, they are checks from the government to the poor. Taxing to support healthcare and education and helping subsidize these for the poor is one thing. Taxing my income and writing a check to the highschool drop out with six kids to spend however they please is something else. Socialism. Obama is attempting to convert our society into a welfare state.

Third- the idea that eliminating off shoring of jobs will somehow help our economy is simply wrong. The jobs being outsourced are done better and far cheaper by foreign workers, America cannot be competitive in these areas. To mandate inefficiency in the US economy is not the answer. It is a measure that will make US businesses less competitive and will end up costing more jobs than it "saves". We are not in a stagnant situation, businesses and people must adapt to a constantly changing environment to survive and thrive. If India can provide superior IT support at a quarter of the cost then American workers should not be rushing into the IT support field and expect to be successful. If you own a business and your choices are to pay $10,000 a year for IT or $40,000, which do you choose? If your choices as a consumer were a Toyota truck for $25K or a Ford for $100K, which would you choose? Now imagine Obama giving you a bill for $75K because you made the only sane choice. The bottom line is that if America cannot be competitive in a given field then we need to adapt, not prop up this inefficiency until our businesses fail. It's basic economics, not a moral decision. Those of you that shop at Walmart (the largest and most successful retailer on the planet) are an excellent example of this- you don't choose to pay more than you have to. What Obama is proposing is to punish you for doing so. To unnaturally prop up the costs to consumers.

Fourth- the comments that Russia's economy is strong due to it's efficiency or that greed is absent in their society- this is laughably absurd. The reason for the resurgence of the shattered Russian economy has been their oil reserves and the sky rocketting prices. When the failed communist experiment came to an end the counrty was raped by it's own greed and corruption- the disparity of wealth in that country far exceeds our own. Take a look at their economy over the past few weeks and carefully explain how it could be perceived as successful.

And lastly to those arguing that France has it right- you have clearly lost your minds. France is a bankrupt country with massive widespread unemployment and inefficiency. It is a society that has cast aside the idea of being sustainable or competitive. Their president is hated by the people because he has inherited a system that is falling apart and cannot continue to operate the way it does and is now faced with the task of bringing sweeping change, back to the cold hard realities of life, that you need to work for what you have, that nothing is free. There is widespread riotting in the streets, there is violence and hatred for a system that does not allow it's people to compete and better themselves through hard work and determination. Young determined college grads simply can't get work, lazy people that have been in the same cushy job for 20 years, not adavncing, not growing, not adapting are fully protected by the government- it is virtually impossible to fire someone in France as long as they physically show up for work! 35 hours a week, 46 weeks a year doesn't cut it. It's like a nation of semi retired people not realizing that they actually need to work in order to support themselves. America was built on hard work and the dream that this will be rewarded with the chance of success and wealth not just for the individual but for the generations to come. We are the wealthiest most successful nation on earth. The sacrifices of my father and his father before him have paid the dividends allowing my to get a college education and start a rewarding career- I was given nothing but opportunity and I have chosen to make something of it. This is the American Dream and something that we as a society are sadly losing sight of.

:america:

 

[formula154]

Look at russia...are they in serious trouble with their economy??? NO. Why??? Because their government know how to run their country in an efficient manner. Now I dont want to draw a comparison between america and russia, god knows what trouble I may start there but lets keep this on track and take russia as an example of a well organised socialist/communist country. My Fiancee is from a socialist country and I have never seen such happy people, comfortable in their lives and content with what they have. There is no major levels of greed and the society as a whole are happy. Now if you think change is bad then you need to polish your clouded judgement to begin to see the light clearer for a second...change is good when you find yourselves in such debt. When I saw that america is in debt of 10 trillion dollars I can finally rest my case and say that America has got to be the weakest country in the world right now...do yourselves some good and vote in a president that is strong, capable and not republican!!!

Now I'm not an american so i'm not being submersed in your political boredom day in, day out. Franklly I dont care who rules America...if things go belly up in America the world economy will simply change (there's that word again) in a new direction and no longer rely on the american economy. That would spell absolute disaster on your economy and I doubt very much if the country can survive through that. Now thats the worst case scenario. I believe that if you put another eejit into the white house then your in serious trouble. Its time that America looks after itself.

I'm sorry if I come across very strongly but I think America has pushed its luck for a long time..surely all this war is costing you a massive amount of money for nothing. While countries like Russia are sitting back and smiling, as you get weaker they get stronger.

The current war in Iraq is a money pit and a waste of time...get your troops out now, put your army back to bed and start to get your country back in order to its former glory. If this is what Obama can offer then I think you have your only candidate right there!

The average salary in Russia in 2008 is $640 a month. That is $7680 a year.
Life expectancy
male: 61.5 years
female: 73.9 years (2007)
and declining.

In 2005 suicides per 100,000 per year.
Russia 32
USA 11

While the Russian birth-rate is comparable to that of other European countries, its population is declining at a much greater rate due to abnormally higher death rate (especially among working-age males due to poverty, abuse of alcohol and other substances, disease, stress, and other afflictions).

There are more abortions in Russia than births because a child will push most Russians in to poverty.



Yeah, those Russians rock :rockon::noworries:
If only we could be like them :rof:

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Oscar54]

That is fine, if you are a socialist just stand up and say that you are. Don't sneak around and pretend that you aren't.

Obviously you haven't seen my previous posts or my signiture. I am not ashamed of my beliefs and don't "sneak around and pretend" anything.

There is nothing wrong with "Socialism"! It is what you get when you live in a society! It's the neocons that try to make it seem like a four letter word or is a philosophy espoused by those who don't work or pay taxes. I would be willing to bet I pay more in income taxes and property taxes than most on this forum. Taxes are the price you pay to live in a free society. Yah, that's right a "free" society.

I just feel that as Americans we should be willing to provide a basic safety net so people don't have to worry about loosing their ass and ending up in the street because of an unfortunate turn of events, like a loss of a job (like some on this forum) or serious illness, or having the big boys F everything up because of their greed (like right now) and everyone's retirement account tanks when they're old (like right now), after working and paying taxes their whole lives for a corporation who's executive makes more in a day than they did all year.

So, sorry if that doesn't fit with the BS economic theories they teach in B schools in college these days or the hot air that comes out of Greenspan's mouth or any other neocon fruitcake economic think-tank. If someone believes that what is going on right now economically in the World is the result of anything other than the failed economic policies followed by the neocons for the last 28 years, then they probably believe Sarah Palin is ready to be President of the USA.

Oh, and have a nice day!:squid:

Lewis

 

[bertmoog]

I did not bring this topic up. Besides as much as I dislike McCain's administration

This is for NIMZO.

 

[nimzotech]

Cat got my tongue :spank:

 

[DefyInertia]

And lastly to those arguing that France has it right- you have clearly lost your minds. France is a bankrupt country with massive widespread unemployment and inefficiency. It is a society that has cast aside the idea of being sustainable or competitive. Their president is hated by the people because he has inherited a system that is falling apart and cannot continue to operate the way it does and is now faced with the task of bringing sweeping change, back to the cold hard realities of life, that you need to work for what you have, that nothing is free. There is widespread riotting in the streets, there is violence and hatred for a system that does not allow it's people to compete and better themselves through hard work and determination. Young determined college grads simply can't get work, lazy people that have been in the same cushy job for 20 years, not adavncing, not growing, not adapting are fully protected by the government- it is virtually impossible to fire someone in France as long as they physically show up for work! 35 hours a week, 46 weeks a year doesn't cut it. It's like a nation of semi retired people not realizing that they actually need to work in order to support themselves.

America was built on hard work and the dream that this will be rewarded with the chance of success and wealth not just for the individual but for the generations to come. We are the wealthiest most successful nation on earth. The sacrifices of my father and his father before him have paid the dividends allowing my to get a college education and start a rewarding career- I was given nothing but opportunity and I have chosen to make something of it. This is the American Dream and something that we as a society are sadly losing sight of.

:america:

Da da da da da daaaaaaaaaaamn man!

 

[bertmoog]

I just want to point out one more thing and Im off (unless someone replies specifically to one of my points). I think it is absolutely hilarious that basically every liberal post on here has been thanked like 50 times. I dont necessarily desire any credit for anything I wrote here, but I think its sad that nobody (except Mr. Hollow) has even posted something to say, "Hey, I appreciate what you wrote." Every response I have written has been intelligent, factual, well thought out, grammatically correct, sometimes sarcastic and certainly light hearted.

Then you get stuff like this. Now, he has every right in theory to say whatever he wants, so long as it conforms to the forum rules (Rule #4: Make your comments count: If you have something to say, make an effort of communicating it intelligently. Don't have anything worth while contributing? Don't say anything. Lest keep the "junk posts to a min"). Im hesitant to revisit this post because I dont want to be :ban: (as everyone seems so eager to do to someone whose viewpoints differ) but its a perfect example and lets just simply say this in no way conforms to rule 4. Oh yeah and he gets thanked five times? Hello? Hello? Not one single statement in their entire post pertains to anything!

Wow, so your going to base a video off someone's character. Real mature.

What does this mean? I didnt make the video. I didnt base it off of his character. ??? Barack is the one speaking.

As somebody whom is black, need I remind you that just because his skin is color is the same, take notice that he is BI-RACIAL or is your judgment that clouded that you bypassed that issue.

What?? This is not a racial issue, I dont care if he's purple. He basically said, himself, in his eloquent, smoothing over of the terms, we need to "redistribute" everyone's wealth and make sure that a certain people get what they deserve for their social and economic injustices. Dont shoot the messenger.

And need I also say that I vote strongly republican but there is no way in hell I will vote for McCain/Palin after what George Bush did to this Nation nor would I vote for McCain/Palin after attending to some of their rallies.

McCain does not equal Bush. Period. McCain is not perfect. Bush is not perfect, but he is not the total moron that the liberal media makes him out to be. Ive said it before, might as well say it again: Bush is not all-powerful. We have a liberal Congress. Do you honestly think he can do anything of his own accord with out their approval?

I will proudly vote for Obama for real change. This so called Socialism as you call it is nothing more than what Republicans can come up with because they know it is done and over with. They use hate, drudge up shady BS for what gain? Nothing. You can't bring up an association with somebody when your EIGHT YEARS OLD. What 8 year old do you know, knows the difference between a \\"international terrorist\\" and a \\"domestic terrorist\\"

Well that much is certain, Obama does equal change. Oh and I didnt just coin a new word. Socialism has a meaning, look it up before you post. Republicans did not come up with this. OMG I feel like Im taking crazy pills. It is what Obama is talking about. Did you even listen to the audio?

I dont even understand your last two sentences. I can only assume your saying something about the whole "Hussein" thing because thats really the only thing about which anybody has anything to say. They just bypass everything else, "oh but you said Hussein and I dont like that. I dont care about anything else you say." Well all I can say is that that's his name and he's not changing it so why cant I call him by his name? If thats all you take away from everything I said then you have closed your mind to any enlightenment.

You need to go back to your ****ing cave where you belong and keep your racist comments to your self. It's people like you that divide America, not Obama.

Very quaint. As I have stated before, Im not racist. There was nothing in my original post to suggest that I am. I state facts. I have black friends that are in agreement with the things Ive said here.
Again, there was nothing in my post that had anything to do with dividing America. I was a sergeant in the Marine Corps. I served for 8 years. I have risked my life for this country. I am one of the reasons you have the ability to exist in this country and not be killed by Islamic terrorists that, if they could, would press a button and wipe the US off the face of planet Earth. Now let me tell you something: you have just as much say so in the political affairs of this country as I do and yet you have no idea as to where Obama or McCain stands on possibly any issue. So why are you voting for Obama?

Oh yeah, and your post got thanked 5 times. Unbelievable! This post does give me insight though, and encourages me that I am correct in midst of fierce opposition.

 

[tom5796]

First, please excuse my use of personal information. It is only to make a point.

I would be willing to bet I pay more in income taxes and property taxes than most on this forum.

If you paid less than $75K in income and property taxes last year then I've got you beat. Not including Social Security (more on that later). I'll be damned if I'm going to be forced to give up more of a percentage, let alone the straight dollars. Btw, I am not "rich." I live in one of the most expensive regions of the country and I have also lost, for now, half of my savings in the last 6 months.

Taxes are the price you pay to live in a free society. Yah, that's right a \\\\"free\\\\" society.

I don't think anyone is disputing that. Infrastructure, military protection and some oversight. The problem is excessive taxes designed to redistribute earned wealth, pay for failed programs (like the CRA) and pay bloated administrative agencies.

I just feel that as Americans we should be willing to provide a basic safety net so people don't have to worry about loosing their ass and ending up in the street because of an unfortunate turn of events, like a loss of a job (like some on this forum) or serious illness, or having the big boys F everything up because of their greed (like right now) and everyone's retirement account tanks when they're old (like right now), after working and paying taxes their whole lives for a corporation who's executive makes more in a day than they did all year.

Do you not think that there are perfectly respectable charitable organizations out there that are way more efficient than the the government who burns 40% of monies mired in bureaucracy before it ever gets to the person who needs it? I give a lot every year as a percentage, and I would give more if the gov wasn't already taking as much as they do. And I have a basic faith in humanity that lots of folks would do the same.

Seems one of the people on this forum has had some trouble recently. Who gave more to him, this forum or the government? How much of a cut did the FZ6-Forum take? And while it's convenient for politicians (and the media who supports them) to pin the blame of the current crisis on evil corporations, it was the government (democrats Frank and Dodd mind you) that enabled them to do it, encouraged them to do it and measured them on their progress in doing it.

Regarding retirement accounts, I'm sorry, but that's a risk. One could have just stored the cash in their mattress instead. And, frankly, if they've been investing their savings for the last 30 years it would still add up to more than if it was kept as greenbacks in the mattress, even with the current downturn.

OK, safetyt net. That's what Social Security was for. Now it it used to fund programs, and Mr. Obama would like to completely decouple it from from being my money, and hit it progressively too!

So, sorry if that doesn't fit with the BS economic theories they teach in B schools in college these days or the hot air that comes out of Greenspan's mouth or any other neocon fruitcake economic think-tank. If someone believes that what is going on right now economically in the World is the result of anything other than the failed economic policies followed by the neocons for the last 28 years, then they probably believe Sarah Palin is ready to be President of the USA.

B-school is actually extremely pragmatic. Have you been to a class? An awful lot is built around creating incentives. Incentives to buy, sell, how you account, how you measure, how you invest... The only incentive to get a hand out is to show up at the mailbox to get your check.

Look, back to my first point above. I spent $50K on an undergrad education which I funded on loans and working, stocking shelves at a grocery store. It took me 10 years to pay it back. I worked two jobs during the first 2 years after college so that I could afford the high cost of living in the Northeast and to pay back the loans. I took a risk to change professions and go to a company that almost collapsed in 2001 but had great potential, and it paid off. I went to night school while working full time... for four years to get an MBA, having paid another $50K. You think I'm a corporate villain? When a toll collector in my state makes 90 grand (plus pension starting at 55, which I don't get, and bennies) you bet I'm going to be pissed about facing another round of tax increases. You bet I'm pissed that the tax "rebate" didn't come my way. What, I don't spend as well as others? In hindsight, perhaps I should have become a toll collector, saved the cash I spent on school and retire at 55... THAT is an incentive. THAT is the problem. If we all became toll collectors paid by the government we wouldn't get very far.

And I'm not alone. Sure there are some nasty business folks who scammed the system and made the headlines (Enron) but for every one of those there are 10s of thousands of us who are already paying way more than our "fair" share.

Oh, and have a nice day!:squid:

You too! Btw, I'm not hatin' on you. You ride an FZ6! I believe this country was built on certain principles of self sufficiency (Ask not what your country can do for you...) and you think it is time to fully morph it into something different.

 

[bertmoog]

How about we give tax breaks to companies that create new jobs here in the US? and yes that is part of Obama's plan.

Lowering taxes on the ultra wealthy will not create new jobs and will not trickle down. This is a fact backed by empirical evidence.

Interesting, so you say that Obama's plan will give tax breaks to create new jobs but then you said tax breaks will not create new jobs. Which is it? Also could you site your empirical evidence?

The problem with most conservatives is they are just ignorant of the facts; reality has a liberal bias.

I am biased, but I but would have to say that this is most absurdly not a factual statement. And I believe you meant "mediality" has a liberal bias.

The rich should pay more in taxes because they can afford it. I know it sucks, but if you want things like schools and roads and police, it's necessary. Setting taxes to the levels during the Clinton era isn't socialism; it's just a fair deal for Americans.

How is this necessary? Why cant everyone be at a flat 10%? Oh thats right, because we have rabidly overpriced social programs and NASA and global warming and the UN and everything else that if I was not bound by law to pay for, I wouldn't. I would assume educate my child myself (which my wife is doing) than put them through the liberal brainwashing and shoddy curriculums of public schools. Youre right though, taxes should cover the costs of law enforcement and military and roads and 10% would do that and have a surplus.

btw, calling Obama \\\"Barack Hussein\\\" instantly loses you all credibility. He will probably win the election, so get used to the fact now.

[/QUOTE]

Youre probably right. But I'll never get used to President Barack Hussein Obama. Oops, did I call him by his given name? Forgive me. That insites fear. And theres no way he can have a single tie to Muslim Extremists. So lets play that down. Apparently people read like this: "Barack Hussein blah blah blah blah blah blah." OMG did he just say Hussein? This poster must be a bad and foolish person, oh well, I didnt care what he was trying to say anyway."

Oh yeah and for this post, you got thanked 3 times, congrats! :thumbup:

 

[formula154]

Obviously you haven't seen my previous posts or my signiture. I am not ashamed of my beliefs and don't \"sneak around and pretend\" anything.

There is nothing wrong with \"Socialism\"! It is what you get when you live in a society! It's the neocons that try to make it seem like a four letter word or is a philosophy espoused by those who don't work or pay taxes. I would be willing to bet I pay more in income taxes and property taxes than most on this forum. Taxes are the price you pay to live in a free society. Yah, that's right a \"free\" society.

I just feel that as Americans we should be willing to provide a basic safety net so people don't have to worry about loosing their ass and ending up in the street because of an unfortunate turn of events, like a loss of a job (like some on this forum) or serious illness, or having the big boys F everything up because of their greed (like right now) and everyone's retirement account tanks when they're old (like right now), after working and paying taxes their whole lives for a corporation who's executive makes more in a day than they did all year.

So, sorry if that doesn't fit with the BS economic theories they teach in B schools in college these days or the hot air that comes out of Greenspan's mouth or any other neocon fruitcake economic think-tank. If someone believes that what is going on right now economically in the World is the result of anything other than the failed economic policies followed by the neocons for the last 28 years, then they probably believe Sarah Palin is ready to be President of the USA.

Oh, and have a nice day!:squid:

Lewis

Are all socialist as excited and worked up and call people names :squid: like you do?
If so it doesn't sound that good to me.

 

[formula154]

You too! Btw, I'm not hatin' on you. You ride an FZ6! I believe this country was built on certain principles of self sufficiency (Ask not what your country can do for you...) and you think it is time to fully morph it into something different.

At least he is honest about how he feels. He is overly excited and calls people names but at least he is honest. I don't believe Obama is honest or straight forward about anything. That is why I won't vote for him.

 

[Norm]

Everyone here who rides or has ridden an FZ6 is clearly more suited to lead our country than the two candidates. I have always been of the opinion that most politicians, regardless of their initial good intentions, have systematically been robbed of everything that connects them with the common person by the time they reach Senator, Governor, or President. Since none of us will likely be elected my only hope is that the winner will win by a landslide. In this manner the majority of our population will be happy, with the "restored confidence" our country most desperately needs at this time. It's still a great country, and I'm still proud to be an American.

 

[dako81]

I think a requirement for president should be to properly clean and lube a chain on an FZ-6.

That would be the day!