A guy from FZ09 forum asked me about upgrading Suspension

[raja777m]

Hello Guys n Gals,
I've got a message from a member from FZ09.org forum, regarding upgrading our suspension, with below question:

From: PattOnMe

is there any interest do you think in upgrading the FZ6 suspension into fully adjustable cartridge for significantly less than the Andreani kit? No new forks, axle or bearings needed. Looks totally stock except for the fork cap

I've replied with this:

Yes, there are some people who want to upgrade to R6 forks (not the inverted one), as it brings more stability to the bike.
I myself, don't have a garage, and no tools, so, I didn't feel like spending my money on such upgrades.
But, yes, once you show one sample, they are willing to upgrade. Show some example and get some trust.
Before that, I prefer you talk/chat with 2 or 3 people who are mechanically inclined.
I don't even do my oil changes, rather I spend 15$ for someone to do it for me.

TownsendsFJR1300, FinalImpact, Shoopce, ThisisBenji and some other people who do their own stuff, get some advice from them, maybe someone tried this before and failed, or you know what I'm talking about.

I've asked him to join our forum and talk with you people.
Any advice?

 

[Zealot]

I don't imagine him being short on information around here, although I must ask - have people on the 09 forums not done anything like that?

 

[raja777m]

I don't imagine him being short on information around here, although I must ask - have people on the 09 forums not done anything like that?

Good question, I didn't ask him about whether he tried on FZ09 yet.
I've seen people upgrading to
Andreani Cartridge installs and K-tech Suspension.

One of the sticky, regarding suspension is:
Suspenstion Options Sticky

 

[raja777m]

have people on the 09 forums not done anything like that?

I've done a few dozen. sv650, ex650, fz07, r3, cb500r, ex300.

The FZ09 is an easy fix since most of the parts are already there. Should have it worked out shortly.

I got this message from him.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDQ4MA==/z/R9MAAOSwDwtUoRNZ/$_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDQ4MA==/z/4d8AAOSw7ThUoRNa/$_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDQ4MA==/z/FhYAAOSwn51UYps1/$_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/o~cAAOSwPYZU~bam/$_57.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MDA=/z/EbwAAOSwstxVJSKy/$_57.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDUyWDQ4NA==/z/0FcAAOSwBLlVMxaM/$_12.JPG

Edit: I've removed the ebay listing and added just the pics.

 

[trepetti]

Yikes. It's Frankenfork! A little piece of this and a little piece of that. Scary stuff.

 

[raja777m]

Yikes. It's Frankenfork! A little piece of this and a little piece of that. Scary stuff.

I felt the same once I saw the images, but didn't want to influence my post/thread readers

 

[slowroller]

How much money do you want to spend? I replaced my .77 springs with .90 from Hyper tech, I think, Cost me about 160$. Then I replaced the 5 wgt fork OIL with 10 wgt. Cost me about 12$. That was more then enough for me. Rides better and is more stable in the corner when the road gets rough. I don't race though. If you track the bike a simple spring rate, OIL wgt change prolly won't do it.
The FZ-09 guy needs to go to at least a 10 wgt fork OIL. IIRC, it has 5 wgt stock. Yamaha does that a lot.

 

[pattonme]

Yikes. It's Frankenfork! A little piece of this and a little piece of that. Scary stuff.

Ouch. This is the first time anyone has mentioned they didn't like the looks of the parts you never see. GSXR600 forks are too short for any normal standard bike by about 2 inches. But I use them since they are plentiful and inexpensive. I'm looking to source center-less ground rod in long lengths so I can cut to size but there's no getting around having to re-position the topout spring and it's seat. For the Ninja 300 I use an internal top-out spring. If I did that for all the models I've retrofitted it would look cleaner, sure. I might start doing that.

Is the objection the use of PVC in compression applications?

My valving is as good as any aftermarket offering (better than some, actually).

Suspension for the street is actually much more demanding and arguably more important than track use. Even our badly surfaced tracks in the USA might as well be glass smooth compared to the typical street. Track riders upgrade because they just throw money at the problem so they can have more confidence to go faster and for the bike to stop misbehaving so badly. But the "I don't need decent suspension" mentality does explain why people don't demand something better than the just frightful OE suspension despite dropping well over 7 large. The factories could put good suspension in the bike for about $300. It might not be fully adjustable but it doesn't have to be. Valving isn't that hard to do and yet they can't even put the right spring in the forks let alone not completely blow it on the shim stack.

 

[pattonme]

The FZ-09 guy needs to go to at least a 10 wgt fork OIL. IIRC, it has 5 wgt stock. Yamaha does that a lot.

As do the rest of the Jap4. The FZ09 (didn't realize my PM to [MENTION=26729]raja777m[/MENTION] was going to spawn a thread over here) has 1 full cartridge body and 90% of another that is neutered to provide absolutely no purpose. I am almost done with the missing bits to remedy that pathetic cost-cutting measure.

 

[FinalImpact]

Its the one size fits all issue. One Spring rate and shim stack damping rate for 75lb to 350lb rider and SHIP IT!! :spank:

But still, the shim stack is cheap and it's mind boggling they can't get that right. Let alone pairing dual rate springs to linear rate springs. It makes a very poor handling production vehicle! FWIW: the R1 shock on the rear of mine is set up nice, tiny changes in the shim stack make it very compliant to the FZ6 as well as fully adjustable. Its inexpensive and it works!

As for the FZ09 guys, they have radial mounted brakes and USD forks so I don't see the cross connection here???

 

[pattonme]

There is no cross-walk to the FZ09 except that [MENTION=26729]raja777m[/MENTION] posted over there and mentioned this forum. I asked him if FZ06 owners were interested in fork upgrades since when I did a search I hadn't seen anything approaching more than the odd post going back some 3 years. I wasn't expecting a thread to come of it, since I was just trying to get a sense of rider interest that maybe I had overlooked.

 

[FinalImpact]

There is no cross-walk to the FZ09 except that @raja777m posted over there and mentioned this forum. I asked him if FZ06 owners were interested in fork upgrades since when I did a search I hadn't seen anything approaching more than the odd post going back some 3 years. I wasn't expecting a thread to come of it, since I was just trying to get a sense of rider interest that maybe I had overlooked.

So, you are saying you re-valve damping hardware?

 

[pattonme]

So, you are saying you re-valve damping hardware?

Anybody can do it. For the FZ06 a donor cartridge from the mid-90/early-2000 YZF600R (not the R6) might be closer to the ideal length but unfortunately it has 41mm caps and not 43mm.

I'm not unsympathetic to the factory but when there are plenty of studies like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight or Average weight chart and average weight for men by age ...

there is no excuse to get it so fantastically wrong. Ok, let's say they target 160lb since folks who ride bikes like the FZ06 tend to be younger and trimmer. The spring rate is good for 20lbs on either side. If you set the valving for the spring, it's good again for 30lbs either way, really. Yes, someone at 200 will need the next step or step and a half higher on the spring and an extra couple shims betwee the rebound and compression stacks, but it will be quite good even if slightly out of range.

 

[Zargof]

Are you still working on this, if so what is cost?

 

[ANLR21]

Having ridden several FZ-09s and even an FJ-09, as these are bikes I'm considering, I can attest that the suspension on at least the FZ is way soft even for the brisk (ahem) pace that I'm doing in the back roads and hills here in PA. Strangely, the FJ had better control, but that's likely just different tuning alongside the ABS,TC, etc. Still soft.

As noted in my signature line, I've made a number of changes to my FZ6 suspension (and about everything else) with the help of FinalImpact, MotoJoe122 and others, no doubt I'll start playing around with the FZ-09 suspenders if I go that route, but that's just me.

The bits and pieces approach noted above, agreed, is kinda scary, much rather consider a more cohesive solution. I'm game to experiment, let's see some results!

Be safe

 

[pattonme]

There are various professional solutions that can range from mid-500's (Andreani) to Matris F15 series (no FKR application listed but might exist) to similar bespoke retrofits in the 700 range, all the way to Traxxion Dynamics' AK20 at $1000. The key is the donor innards and how to get suitable fork caps. The 2003-4 SV1000 will probably be the least amount of work and the caps might well be a straight swap. Next closest is the rightside-up R6 of 2001-2005(?) vintage. Otherwise I've made new ones or machined GSXR ones (easy to find) to size. 3-4 bills covers donor bits and full service with retrofit. With the exception of the Matris F15 (if it exists) all of the update options are non-reversible since the damper rod seal has to come out. In the Andreani's case the cartridge tube is too fat even for the removed seal so you have to take all of the fork guts out.

Some offer compression and rebound at the fork cap, others put compression in the fork bolt and rebound at the cap. In any event stock suspension is generally so bad from the factory (and tuning a damper rod system is very limited) that any of the options will yield vastly better riding experiences. Yes, at street pace which is actually far more demanding on suspension than any race circuit.

The FZ/FJ09 has most of the needed parts already which keeps the cost to fix it much lower. It's a disgrace just how bad that bike's forks are.