4th battery = Electrical charging fault ?

[headache56]

My late 2004 FZ6 is on its fourth battery in 6 years wit the replacements being installed in 2005 (under warranty), 2007 and September 2009.

In the past week I have had to bump start my bike 5 times and yesterday twice, even after a long run. As I turn the ignition switch, the engine turns over slowly and the digital clock display dims then goes out completely** as the measured volatge drops to maybe 4v. I currently have a Yuasa YT12B-BS maintenance free battery. With a multimeter checking the voltage, I got the following results this morning:
8am Voltage 12.3v with nothing switched on
9am Started bike 6 times, faultlessly with the key.
10am Voltage 12.3v
10:15 Bike would not start and the above symtoms ** occurred.
10:20 Bump started bike
10:30 Voltage 13.5v at tickover (say 1.5-2k rpm), 13.94v at 3k RPM, 13.94v @ 7k RPM then 12.95v at tickover


The manual says that the voltage should be 14v at 5k RPM. Although 13.95v is a gnat's hair's breadth from 14v, it surprised me that I could not get the voltage any higher than the 13.95v which I got at 3k RPM. Is it normal that the maximum voltage generated to peak at 3k RPM ?

The manual also suggests that I next check the stator coil lead for continuity, then the stator coil itself for resistance and if no problems are evident, replace the regulator / rectifier. Is there any way I can check if the rectifier / regulator is faulty or must it be so - because all other causes have been eliminated ?

 

[RJ2112]

My late 2004 FZ6 is on its fourth battery in 6 years wit the replacements being installed in 2005 (under warranty), 2007 and September 2009.

In the past week I have had to bump start my bike 5 times and yesterday twice, even after a long run. As I turn the ignition switch, the engine turns over slowly and the digital clock display dims then goes out completely** as the measured volatge drops to maybe 4v. I currently have a Yuasa YT12B-BS maintenance free battery. With a multimeter checking the voltage, I got the following results this morning:
8am Voltage 12.3v with nothing switched on
9am Started bike 6 times, faultlessly with the key.
10am Voltage 12.3v
10:15 Bike would not start and the above symtoms ** occurred.
10:20 Bump started bike
10:30 Voltage 13.5v at tickover (say 1.5-2k rpm), 13.94v at 3k RPM, 13.94v @ 7k RPM then 12.95v at tickover


The manual says that the voltage should be 14v at 5k RPM. Although 13.95v is a gnat's hair's breadth from 14v, it surprised me that I could not get the voltage any higher than the 13.95v which I got at 3k RPM. Is it normal that the maximum voltage generated to peak at 3k RPM ?

The manual also suggests that I next check the stator coil lead for continuity, then the stator coil itself for resistance and if no problems are evident, replace the regulator / rectifier. Is there any way I can check if the rectifier / regulator is faulty or must it be so - because all other causes have been eliminated ?

The regulator appears to be working, as that is limiting your peak DC voltage to 14 and change. (The difference is probably your meter.) Too much voltage is bad for the battery.... boils out the electrolyte, and makes the sulphur bond with the plates.

Where are you measuring the voltage at? What do the electrical connections look like, on your bike? Is there ANY corrosion evident on the contacts?

How much current do you 'see' going into the battery? (To measure amperage, you will have to connect the meter in series with the battery)

 

[abraxas]

May or may not be relevant:

The voltage testing should be done while the engine is HOT.

Cold testing will give you incorrect readings.

Also, it does sound like stator coil OR regulator rectifier, it's very difficult to determine which of those 2 may be at fault. I ended by replacing both, plus battery.

WRT symptoms, the bike generally starts up fine, however ride down the road with brights and hazards, i'd wager at the first stop your bike will die. Or just leave to idle with lights on. if you're out somewhere and need to get home, just disconnect the headlight, she'll take you home ;-)

 

[tuningfork]

have you done any electrical system mods (ie extra headlight, higher wattage bulbs, etc.)

Those voltages do sound a bit low to me. Do you use a battery tender? How often do you ride? do you do a lot of idling/short trips?

Check the simple stuff like making sure the battery connections are clean and tight, etc.

 

[Powerman]

I found a problem where the negative connection to the frame was loose and corroded. The connections on the battery were good.

 

[Fred]

When you're getting the voltage readings, where you have the voltmeter connected? Ideally, you should be on the battery terminals. I'm asking this because if you're reading from the frame and a positive wire somewhere on the bike, then you might be seeing a problem due to a dirty connection somewhere.

If the manual says 14 volts and you're seeing 13.9, you're OK. Remember, that could be 13.99999 volts if your meter rounds down. Or maybe your meter or the regulator is just a bit off. In any case, I'd call that a good reading and move on to checking other things.

The battery is showing the same voltage after 6 starts. That's the sign of a very healthy battery.

I am wondering if you have an intermittent problem with the starter. Perhaps it's shorting to ground occasionally, which would cause the display to dim as though you have a dead battery. All the power goes through the short, so the instrument cluster gets none.

Here's the other important question. When it fails to start, do you get a "clickclickclick" sound from the bike? That's the common sign of a bad battery. As the starter engages, voltage drops, and the starter relay opens. Voltage rises, and the starter engages again. This makes the relay go "clickclickclick*

I suggest that you pull the starter, take it apart, and clean it really well with brake cleaner or electrical contact cleaner. Look for signs of burned wires on the rotor. Look for worn brushes or worn or dirty contacts on the commutator. That's the part where the starter brushes touch the rotor. Lastly, put it all back together having cleaned out the black dust (worn brushes, and it conducts electricity and causes shorts) and try it again.

After 6 battery replacements, I don't think it's your battery. And your charging systems sounds healthy to me.

Fred

 

[urbanj]

See what the voltage is when cranking. The starter could be drawing excessive amperage. Also how do you keep your battery in the off season? These batteries are not made to be deep cycled so you can easily kill it's capacity by letting it sit around too much. 12.3v is not a charged battery. You need to charge it up and then test it.

 

[headache56]

Thanks guys for all your comments.

After checking the voltages, with a multimeter connected to the terminals, I posted my query yesterday.

So following your comments, I went to a garage today and they went through the same checks, then they put my battery on a meter. They also checked the starter motor was OK. I guess they assumed the generator-stator and the rectifier/regulator were both OK since the voltage PD at the terminals was a solid 13.9v.

So they checked the battery. The Yuasa battery, only 9 months old, immediately illuminated the "Battery bad" indicator on their special meter and the mechanic said that must be very bad since he had not even got around to pressing the "apply load now - then measure again" button. He said that a Fazer battery would typically last 18 months and 2 years was good, but 9 months was unacceptable.

So I had to buy a new battery at the garage (as I was miles from home) and I just phoned the folks who supplied me with the original Yuasa battery. They said they will give me either a new battery or a cash refund.

It seems that the battery volatge was about OK but the ability to push current (amps) was defficient. Now that I think about it, when I tried to charge the battery I did get some unusual lights flickering on my Optimate III "intelligent" charger.

Well all now seems to be fixed but I will need to keep vigilant to look for any current drain, like maybe a drain from my Meta 357 alarm.

I use the bike most days, every week of the year here in the UK.

I was charged GBP55 for the battery and nothing for the testing etc.
Thanks again

 

[RJ2112]

So, I'm trying to decide if this means you just bought battery #5, or that #3 was defective when you bought it and simply need to replace.

Either way, even 3 batteries is a lot for a 6 year old bike. If it's 5, that's darn near one a year. Still makes me think something is still not right with the electricals on that bike.

If you get the time to go through the entire wiring harness, and ensure that each and every electrical contact is free of corrosion, and the wires are not chaffed..... you'd be ahead of the game, in my view.

I had my '05 for nearly 60 months, and was still using the original battery, with 27K miles on the bike. I would have been more than displeased to be getting battery #5 in that time frame.