Racetech Spring Install Spacer?

[overtheede]

Has anyone around 140 lbs installed a racetech spring kit?
If so can you tell me your spacer length. Just trying to save
some time.

Thanks

 

[Marthy]

Put the stock spring/spacers in with the cap on top. Don't screw it in... let it rest there with the suspension fully extended. Measure the distance between the cap and fork tube... that's your preload.

From there you might need to go a bit more or less depending of your rider sag number. Aim for 35-40mm rider sag. The kit should have come with some washers to fine tune...

Hope it help.

 

[Carlos840]

The springs come with pretty clear instructions telling you how to guesstimate your spacer. I followed them and ended up in the 35 to 40mm range.
Since i wanted 30mm of rider sag it took me three tries to get the spacer exactly right.

Don't forget to keep an eye on free sag, it will confirm that you have to correct springs .

Here is a good page to read on springs:

Peter Verdone Designs - Motorcycle Springs

 

[overtheede]

Thanks for the replies. It looks pretty simple just seeing if anyone already had done the work and remembered their spacer size.

 

[outasight20]

Just did this install today with .90 kg/mm Racetech springs. I cut the spacers to 6.75" and with my 175 pound self (plus a bit for gear) and three washers per side (one under spacer and two on top, the kit includes 6 total...) my static sag is 33mm. Good enough for me. Took the bike for a ride and the difference from stock is significant. Less diving during braking and the bike feels more planted in turns. Also replaced the fork oil with 10wt. A worthwhile mod I would say.

 

[overtheede]

Thanks for the info. I am also going to 10wt oil as well.

 

[Carlos840]

Just did this install today with .90 kg/mm Racetech springs. I cut the spacers to 6.75" and with my 175 pound self (plus a bit for gear) and three washers per side (one under spacer and two on top, the kit includes 6 total...) my static sag is 33mm. Good enough for me. Took the bike for a ride and the difference from stock is significant. Less diving during braking and the bike feels more planted in turns. Also replaced the fork oil with 10wt. A worthwhile mod I would say.

I am not sure if you are mixing up static sag and rider sag, but if you really mean static sag 33mm would be considered a bit much!

The general "correct numbers" are around 20mm of static sag in the front with 30 to 40mm of rider sag, and 10mm of static sag in the rear with 20 to 30mm of rider sag.

If you actually mean rider sag of 33mm, then check your static sag and if it is around 20mm your spring rate is the correct one.

 

[outasight20]

I was using Racetech's definition of static sag. Sag

From forks fully extended to me sitting on the bike the forks compress 33mm. Sounds like that's your definition of rider sag. My static sag according to your definition is 27mm. Might need to add a bit of preload.

 

[Carlos840]

I was using Racetech's definition of static sag. Sag

From forks fully extended to me sitting on the bike the forks compress 33mm. Sounds like that's your definition of rider sag. My static sag according to your definition is 27mm. Might need to add a bit of preload.

Yeah, that must be a typo from them, regular convention is static/free sag is the sag under the motorcycle's own weight, and race/rider sag is with the rider on the bike.

I weight 185lbs without gear and with .90mm/kg springs i managed to get

Front static sag: 20mm
Front rider sag: 32mm

Which is pretty much perfect!

 

[overtheede]

Well using racetechs worksheet my static sav is 36mm. What do you
Think tighting it up?

 

[Carlos840]

Well using racetechs worksheet my static sav is 36mm. What do you
Think tighting it up?

I would!

But keep in mind that static sag is more a way of checking that your spring rate is correct than anything else.

You should set rider sag, and then check that static sag is in the correct range, not the other way around.

Read the page i posted earlier, it is full of useful information.

Here are my numbers:

Front static sag: 20mm
Front rider sag: 32mm

Rear static sag: 6mm
Rear rider sag: 28mm

 

[2old2ride]

I'm doing that now. I ain't worried about it. Sag is a racing thing. I don't race so it doesn't matter to me. I ordered .95 RaceTech from BikeBandit. At 180 without gear I am supposed to need .87 springs. I got the .95's because they were on sale ($109.00)
I'm doing this because while I don't race I do like going fast. At more then 140, the bike wobbles a bit and tends to wallow and understeer when I change direction. Plus I bottom out when I use the brakes. SS lines and Organic pads means I'm not going to lose control but it is still a bit more excitement then an old geezer needs.
So when I took the front off (Doing stem bearings while I'm in there), I found that there were already after market springs in there. Probably Hyper Pro, since they are progressive springs and Hyper Pro sells about 80% of the after market progressive springs in America. RaceTech springs are linear, I don't think they even make progressive springs. The springs I have been riding on were in upside down, which might have been my problem. Anyway, I'm putting them back in, right side up and going with a 10 wgt fork OIL. I hope that works because this is a big job for an old man who still hasn't recovered from his last heart attack.
I'm waiting to see if BikeBandit will take the HyperTech springs back. The Service Manual gives a free length range of 347 to 354mm. The RaceTech springs are 318mm. Almost 10% shorter. That was too much for me. If they had been 340 or even 335 I might have gone with them. I'm sure if I was desperate and knew a lot about suspensions, I could have made them work. Instead I sent them back, or I'm trying to.

 

[Carlos840]

I'm doing that now. I ain't worried about it. Sag is a racing thing. I don't race so it doesn't matter to me. I ordered .95 RaceTech from BikeBandit. At 180 without gear I am supposed to need .87 springs. I got the .95's because they were on sale ($109.00)
I'm doing this because while I don't race I do like going fast. At more then 140, the bike wobbles a bit and tends to wallow and understeer when I change direction. Plus I bottom out when I use the brakes. SS lines and Organic pads means I'm not going to lose control but it is still a bit more excitement then an old geezer needs.
So when I took the front off (Doing stem bearings while I'm in there), I found that there were already after market springs in there. Probably Hyper Pro, since they are progressive springs and Hyper Pro sells about 80% of the after market progressive springs in America. RaceTech springs are linear, I don't think they even make progressive springs. The springs I have been riding on were in upside down, which might have been my problem. Anyway, I'm putting them back in, right side up and going with a 10 wgt fork OIL. I hope that works because this is a big job for an old man who still hasn't recovered from his last heart attack.
I'm waiting to see if BikeBandit will take the HyperTech springs back. The Service Manual gives a free length range of 347 to 354mm. The RaceTech springs are 318mm. Almost 10% shorter. That was too much for me. If they had been 340 or even 335 I might have gone with them. I'm sure if I was desperate and knew a lot about suspensions, I could have made them work. Instead I sent them back, or I'm trying to.

A few things:

The stock springs are dual rate, so it is highly probable you had stock springs in there. I am pretty sure Hyperpro springs would be branded...

Regarding the way they go in, it should not make any difference, the manual says to instal the springs with the small pitch facing down, but a LOT of people have them facing up from the factory when they open their forks. Either way, it makes no difference.

The Racetech spring length is meaningless, you just make up the difference with a new spacer, which is provided in the kit.

Lastly, sag really is not a racing thing, it is the most important setup you can do to your bike if you want it to handle properly! It really is worth doing...

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ agreed, throwing the springs in w/out setting the preload is not beneficial and you may not realize the full benefit of the right spring if not installed properly.
So, true: nothing to do w racing, but must be checked and set! You can throw a zip tie on the stanchion tube and you can have the values in 3 minutes! Now you know if you have the proper spring. Also, damping is what keeps the vehicle from bottoming out. A stiff spring w little damping and it just behaves like a Pogo stick.

As for running a non linear spring upside down it fatgues the spring much quicker and makes allot of extra friction in the process.
When in installed correctly, the softer section of the spring is flexing / compressing constantly over minor road variations. When upside down, the whole spring has to move up and down in the stanchion tube before the soft section compresses. This makes friction, wear, and heat. Granted none are astronomical, but over time it fatigues the spring. Not to mention the whole spring spring is moving in the tube is making contact and debris equals more contamination.

Yes, when installed properly there is still contact, but at least the whole spring is not moving constantly. Just the section being compressed. As a visual, think of droping the aluminum spacer in first and then the spring. Sort of the same concept - the fixed heavy rate section is now moving all the time and we don't want that!

 

[Carlos840]

^^ agreed, throwing the springs in w/out setting the preload is not beneficial and you may not realize the full benefit of the right spring if not installed properly.
So, true: nothing to do w racing, but must be checked and set! You can throw a zip tie on the stanchion tube and you can have the values in 3 minutes! Now you know if you have the proper spring. Also, damping is what keeps the vehicle from bottoming out. A stiff spring w little damping and it just behaves like a Pogo stick.

As for running a non linear spring upside down it fatgues the spring much quicker and makes allot of extra friction in the process.
When in installed correctly, the softer section of the spring is flexing / compressing constantly over minor road variations. When upside down, the whole spring has to move up and down in the stanchion tube before the soft section compresses. This makes friction, wear, and heat. Granted none are astronomical, but over time it fatigues the spring. Not to mention the whole spring spring is moving in the tube is making contact and debris equals more contamination.

Yes, when installed properly there is still contact, but at least the whole spring is not moving constantly. Just the section being compressed. As a visual, think of droping the aluminum spacer in first and then the spring. Sort of the same concept - the fixed heavy rate section is now moving all the time and we don't want that!

What i meant by "it makes no difference" is that the characteristics of the springs will not change depending on which way up you put them in!
Putting them back in the right way up is not going to change their rate.

 

[overtheede]

Well after messing around with spacers I have my rider sag set
at 28.5mm. Sounds good to me. What do you guys think?

 

[Carlos840]

Well after messing around with spacers I have my rider sag set
at 28.5mm. Sounds good to me. What do you guys think?

Without knowing what your static sag is it is hard to comment...

If your static sag is in the 15 to 25mm then you are in the right range.

 

[2old2ride]

A few things:

The stock springs are dual rate, so it is highly probable you had stock springs in there. I am pretty sure Hyperpro springs would be branded...

Regarding the way they go in, it should not make any difference, the manual says to instal the springs with the small pitch facing down, but a LOT of people have them facing up from the factory when they open their forks. Either way, it makes no difference.

The Racetech spring length is meaningless, you just make up the difference with a new spacer, which is provided in the kit.

Lastly, sag really is not a racing thing, it is the most important setup you can do to your bike if you want it to handle properly! It really is worth doing...

Actually, not to start a fight but I have a service manual, for what it is worth. stock number is LIT-11616-FZ-61. In section, page 4-54 there is a NOTE: Install the spring with the smaller pitch facing up. Then there is a diagram so everybody understand what pitch refers to. On page 4-50, step 2 is measure the spring free length. That free length is 354mm (13.94 inches) to 347mm (13.66 inches).
I think you for your opinion but I believe I will follow the instructions from the people that built the bike and spend millions if not billions on R & D. How many hundreds of Engineers does Yamaha employee? Thousands?
Sag is important for an individual rider that is seeking to fine tune their performance envelope. The Factory just wants Owners to be safe.
I'll go with the factory. The spacers are for minor adjustments. I don't consider 10% to be minor. The Free Length range is 7mm. That would be what the Factory considers minor and to be adjusted for.
BTW, my Race Tech Springs were not branded.
I don't know what springs they are, as I wrote. My logic was that the factory DID NOT put themm in up side down. So logically, somebody else did. Why would somebody replace stock springs with stock springs? Springs don't wear out. Not on a properly designed motorcycle. The fork OIL was pretty new. Certainly not almost 10 years old like the bike is (it's an '05). So the fork had been worked on. I paid the shop 50$ per to do the forks. Seals, bushings, blow out the damper. I asked the Mechanic if it looked like it had been worked on. He said yes, so there was my second opinion. The most logical reason to work on forks is to change the springs, or do the damper valve. Anyone doing the valve would know enough to understand there are very sound engineering reasons why the pitch gets smaller at the top. Reasons based on the laws of physics.
You do understand that RaceTech sells springs. They don't make them;
IndustryNet

Not sure about Hyper Pro. They are European and might not be required to registar with the Government. Economics still applies. A Spring manufacturer Would make millions of springs with the economy of scale that provides. Of those millions, only a few thousand or even few hundred would be for motorcycles. The cost savings of buying raw materials for millions of springs would still be there as well as the lower unit cost of running the lines for an extra little bit to knock out the motorcycle springs after the SUV springs. So they knock out a few and send them to Sport Tech, which checks them. packages them, then ships them to you and I. Nothing wrong with that. It saves everybody money and creats jobs. A win-win.

Out of the Millions of motorcycles ridden worldwide today, how many had the sag set? 1,000, 2,000, Or about .0002 %
Why do you think that number is important? Maybe you are making money off it, in which case it is important. To you. Not to me and the many millions of riders who have no idea what sag is and ride along in safety without knowing or caring.:rockon:

 

[FinalImpact]

Just a couple of thoughts;

Springs do fatigue and fail to meet the design spec. Allot of the aftermarket world offers springs that fit more than one application. The fork body has like 5.1" of travel. In a nutshell; as long as the coils don't stack when compressed 5.1" it leaves allot of options for "other manufactures" to offer springs that can be substituted. Those springs must have the installed height corrected by setting the preload as few are "drop in" replacements meeting the OEM spec to the letter.

In short: these bikes were inexpensive and a by-product of that is the suspension may be adequate for some while others may find it inadequate. Given the bikes are stamped out nearly identical while we the rider vary in size, weight, experience and expectations, with minor work and expenses these bikes can be customized to meet the needs of their owners! To each their own....

 

[Carlos840]

Actually, not to start a fight but I have a service manual, for what it is worth. stock number is LIT-11616-FZ-61. In section, page 4-54 there is a NOTE: Install the spring with the smaller pitch facing up. Then there is a diagram so everybody understand what pitch refers to. On page 4-50, step 2 is measure the spring free length. That free length is 354mm (13.94 inches) to 347mm (13.66 inches).
I think you for your opinion but I believe I will follow the instructions from the people that built the bike and spend millions if not billions on R & D. How many hundreds of Engineers does Yamaha employee? Thousands?
Sag is important for an individual rider that is seeking to fine tune their performance envelope. The Factory just wants Owners to be safe.
I'll go with the factory. The spacers are for minor adjustments. I don't consider 10% to be minor. The Free Length range is 7mm. That would be what the Factory considers minor and to be adjusted for.
BTW, my Race Tech Springs were not branded.
I don't know what springs they are, as I wrote. My logic was that the factory DID NOT put themm in up side down. So logically, somebody else did. Why would somebody replace stock springs with stock springs? Springs don't wear out. Not on a properly designed motorcycle. The fork OIL was pretty new. Certainly not almost 10 years old like the bike is (it's an '05). So the fork had been worked on. I paid the shop 50$ per to do the forks. Seals, bushings, blow out the damper. I asked the Mechanic if it looked like it had been worked on. He said yes, so there was my second opinion. The most logical reason to work on forks is to change the springs, or do the damper valve. Anyone doing the valve would know enough to understand there are very sound engineering reasons why the pitch gets smaller at the top. Reasons based on the laws of physics.
You do understand that RaceTech sells springs. They don't make them;
IndustryNet

Not sure about Hyper Pro. They are European and might not be required to registar with the Government. Economics still applies. A Spring manufacturer Would make millions of springs with the economy of scale that provides. Of those millions, only a few thousand or even few hundred would be for motorcycles. The cost savings of buying raw materials for millions of springs would still be there as well as the lower unit cost of running the lines for an extra little bit to knock out the motorcycle springs after the SUV springs. So they knock out a few and send them to Sport Tech, which checks them. packages them, then ships them to you and I. Nothing wrong with that. It saves everybody money and creats jobs. A win-win.

Out of the Millions of motorcycles ridden worldwide today, how many had the sag set? 1,000, 2,000, Or about .0002 %
Why do you think that number is important? Maybe you are making money off it, in which case it is important. To you. Not to me and the many millions of riders who have no idea what sag is and ride along in safety without knowing or caring.:rockon:

OR, it could be that even the factory has no idea what they are saying or doing and change their mind every other bike! Service manual LIT-11616-20-60 (which is the service manual for the FZ6 2007 and on), page 4-49, bottom left corner:

"Install the springs with the smaller pitch facing down"


Hooray for the all knowledgeable Yamaha engineer!
The factory did put them upside down, as they did in mine, and in many other bikes...

If the factory wanted to keep you safe it wouldn't sell you a bike with undersprung forks! The factory is not trying to keep you safe, it is trying to build a cheap bike!

It's your bike, you do what you want with it, i am just trying to help, having done what you are about to do, and experienced first hand what correct sag, and RaceTech springs do.
You can take this information and use it or you can leave it, it makes no difference to me...