Rode through a flood. Have I killed my engine?

[SANGER_A2]

So yesterday I had to ride through a huge puddle about a foot deep. It was only for a few metres and the bike seemed fine afterwards. I continued riding to work which was mainly at 70mph for about 30 mins. When i started the bike at the end of the day, the bike idled at 2k rpm instead of 1k. It also sounded much rougher and deeper. It did this the whole way home. I turned off the engine for a minute after a while and it made no difference.

Anyone have any idea what's wrong or what I can check/try?

Thanks.

Sent from my MI 2 using Tapatalk

 

[darius]

Checked to ensure the throttle cable is fully returning?

 

[Motogiro]

Maybe water got pushed to the snorkel and it took on some water in the air box. The filter may be water logged? Pop the tank and open the airbox...

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Not sure were my other posts went....

Hmm. A foot deep? I doubt anything got to your air box, but anyways let it dry out. If you really want to help it from hydro locking I would pull the air cleaner as suggested above, pull your spark plugs out and put a half of teaspoon of oil into eatch cylinder. I just dab a little oil into the cap, just enough to help the rings upon revolutions. I always do this when I change headgaskets. To keep the cylinder walls clean. Even a foot deep wouldn't put it into the exhaust.

 

[SANGER_A2]

Right, so I need to check and lube the throttle cable under the tank, check and clean the airbox and check and add oil to the spark plugs. I might as well lube the clutch cable and unplug the battery to let the ECU reset while I'm doing all that.

Anything else I should do/check while I've got the tank up? I've got the faired model so I want to avoid having to take all the panels etc off more than I need too! My throttle cables have been stiff for a while and are 6 years old so I'm going to order new ones too and fit them in a week or so.

 

[FinalImpact]

What year is you bike and does have the mini pre-cats in the header??? ((DERP//|| EDIT: OK I'm not it edit mode and can see its an 08, does it have the stock header??))

Its one thing to spray them with tire spray, another to flat out quench them in cool water. They are roughly 1600 to 2000F inside. That rapid cool down could crack the honey comb core. Well if you even have them.

IMO if its still running out the other side, I don't see a hydro-lock as an issue as that's a killer mechanically stopping an engine from speed. It doesn't fit the events described.

So where was a bulk of the water flying too, what speed was sustained?? I mean, even if the honey comb breaks, I don't see the idle going up. Certainly not instantly. Lets think about that after you give us some details on the year and setup.

What comes to mind:
- TPS took on water
- some how an air hose came loose (vacuum leak)
- as mentioned, inspect air box. ?? paper filter element tore free?? Could make it louder and change idle, but VERY unlikely it got saturated. IDK
- cables sticking, is it just sound louder from increased RPM or is it running bad?
- pre-cat damage. Outcome unknown what this would do to it.

I'm sure you know this already but clean and lube the chain REAL WELL and although unlikely, keep in mind that water could make it into the wheel bearings and drive sprockets bearing.

Really grasping at straws about why the idle went up.

 

[SANGER_A2]

What year is you bike and does have the mini pre-cats in the header??? ((DERP//|| EDIT: OK I'm not it edit mode and can see its an 08, does it have the stock header??))

Its one thing to spray them with tire spray, another to flat out quench them in cool water. They are roughly 1600 to 2000F inside. That rapid cool down could crack the honey comb core. Well if you even have them.

IMO if its still running out the other side, I don't see a hydro-lock as an issue as that's a killer mechanically stopping an engine from speed. It doesn't fit the events described.

So where was a bulk of the water flying too, what speed was sustained?? I mean, even if the honey comb breaks, I don't see the idle going up. Certainly not instantly. Lets think about that after you give us some details on the year and setup.

What comes to mind:
- TPS took on water
- some how an air hose came loose (vacuum leak)
- as mentioned, inspect air box. ?? paper filter element tore free?? Could make it louder and change idle, but VERY unlikely it got saturated. IDK
- cables sticking, is it just sound louder from increased RPM or is it running bad?
- pre-cat damage. Outcome unknown what this would do to it.

I'm sure you know this already but clean and lube the chain REAL WELL and although unlikely, keep in mind that water could make it into the wheel bearings and drive sprockets bearing.

Really grasping at straws about why the idle went up.

Thanks for all the advice from everyone! :thumbup:

I'd forgotten about the chain. Really annoyed actually as I cleaned the bike, disks and chain and lubed the chain and side-stand pivot points etc last weekend and now its messed up again!

When idling it sounds much rougher than usual and never lower than 2k. It's actually about 2.5k when starting from cold. It actually goes down when I start the bike off. TBH the throttle cable seems to be working the same: I still have the same amount of free-play when revving before the revs change and it doesn't feel any different.

I have the 2008 FZ6 S2 with ABS. I have stock headers with the mini-cats and lambda sensor. I have Scorpion end cans with DB killers in and the stock mid-pipe with cat in it.

The bike had only been running for about 5 minutes between 30 and 50 before going into the water so the pipes wouldn't have been really really hot.

I stopped before the puddle and went through it at about 5 mph in first with the clutch in a bit. There wasn't any steam thrown up by water hitting the hot pipes. It was 30-50 cm deep in the middle and it threw up a bit of a wave to the sides, but I had my visor open and no water hit me in the face!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Fwiw, ive ridden through torrential down pours where my bike was more of a jet ski and never experienced anything like this.

How is your fuel? Could it be bad?

 

[greg]

could be something electrical?

 

[darius]

As others have said, your little puddle shouldn't have caused any harm. Perhaps you simply need to adjust your idle down to factory spec.

 

[SANGER_A2]

As others have said, your little puddle shouldn't have caused any harm. Perhaps you simply need to adjust your idle down to factory spec.

how do I do that? Also, it's not just higher than it should be. It definitely sounds rougher than the bike does normally at 2000rpm. And when I start to pull off, the noise gets quieter and smoother.

 

[darius]

how do I do that? Also, it's not just higher than it should be. It definitely sounds rougher than the bike does normally at 2000rpm. And when I start to pull off, the noise gets quieter and smoother.

It's in the owner's manual plus threads here.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/40287-where-idle-adjustment.html

 

[SANGER_A2]

It's in the owner's manual plus threads here.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/40287-where-idle-adjustment.html

Thanks. I think I'll save that as a last resort though. There must be something that caused the bike to run differently and it can't be that screw turning itself. Hopefully I can fix it at the source. I'll update here after I've messed around a bit tomorrow.

 

[FinalImpact]

Pull the seat, pull the tank and inspect all of the hoses and the base of the throttle bodies. There are 4 clamps down there. If one is sucking air, it could explain this. 4mm allan cap.

Increased IDLE SPEED **usually** means the engine is GETTING MORE AIR. A vacuum leak give it more air and raises the RPM. In 95% of all cases, this is the case.

• How the world this relates to running it through some water is beyond me.

 

[Recluse420]

Just for laughs I'd try some of this, won't hurt anything I promise, most guys here are not fan's and this may be the equivalent to polishing a turd but it's worth a shot can't hurt anything. I've gone through 4 oil changes so far replacing 20% of my oil with this stuff and rock it in the gas tank every other fuel up. Just got my bike serviced over the weekend and the valves changed, everything was clean and no major adjustments were needed. My dad got a 69 Camaro that sat for years that wouldn't turn over to fire up after a week of soaking it in this stuff. Anyways I hope you get your bike fixed soon this kind of stuff sucks. And what Vegas said this don't sound like a water issue based off of 55k here in Seattle rain or shine. Biggest problem I've had with water is it got in my horn once. Good luck man.

 

[Recluse420]

Just for laughs I'd try some of this, won't hurt anything I promise, most guys here are not fan's and this may be the equivalent to polishing a turd but it's worth a shot can't hurt anything. I've gone through 4 oil changes so far replacing 20% of my oil with this stuff and rock it in the gas tank every other fuel up. Just got my bike serviced over the weekend and the valves changed, everything was clean and no major adjustments were needed. My dad got a 69 Camaro that sat for years that wouldn't turn over to fire up after a week of soaking it in this stuff. Anyways I hope you get your bike fixed soon this kind of stuff sucks. And what Vegas said this don't sound like a water issue based off of 55k here in Seattle rain or shine. Biggest problem I've had with water is it got in my horn once. Good luck man.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-MM13R-Mystery-Oil-oz/dp/B0009JKGJW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391978002&sr=8-1&keywords=marvel+mystery+oil]Amazon.com: Marvel MM13R Mystery Oil - 32 oz.: Automotive[/ame]

 

[FinalImpact]

A little something came to mind;
Next time you fire it up, place your hand on those very small tubes on the top of the radiator - right side. They go back to the throttle bodies where the TB sync screws are. If those are cold, it could imply there is no circulation and without circulation, it won't idle down.


Two things wrong with this theory;
1) Regardless of weather it warms up or not, it shouldn't idle at 2000 rpm. It didn't before.
2) It doesn't explain the rough or loudness....

Hint: bad picture, but those tubes go here, bottom middle and heat the bi-metalic spring inside the Idle air controller.

Here you are looking at the idle air control valve where the TB sync is done. The nut looking assembly pulls out against a spring. On the the other end is hot water from the engine and a bi-metalic spring to adjust idle speed according to engine temp. Depending on the water temp, it moves that whole shaft with the nut on it to adjust idle air volume, Here you can see the Nut is Locked down by a heavy sealant to fix the idle air volume at the factory.

Still ZERO correlation as to water, RPM increase, and Running rough.

 

[SANGER_A2]

Okay. So at the weekend, I took off the tank, airbox etc. I took out the filter and it was dry and clean (the bike was serviced in November). I noticed that the pipe circled wasn't connected to the airbox and it definitely was last time I had the airbox off. Probably those naughty mechanics who serviced the bike didn't plug it on again or it dropped down after not being fastened tight enough. I cleaned and sprayed WD-40 all over the place including into the engine through the air intakes. I also sprayed it over where any pipes went. I checked all the pipes going into the airbox. I left the battery disconnected during the whole time and this may have had an impact too.

I checked the throttle action and it seems fine, but I sprayed more WD40 over both ends anyway. The gold throttle valve thingies shown in the picture were closed and airtight with no throttle anyway as they held a few ml WD-40 fine until I twisted the throttle!

I didn't bother checking the spark plugs yet as the Haynes manual told me I needed to remove and drain the whole cooling system to get to them and I didn't have the time or motivation to do this!!! :spank:

When running, I couldn't feel or hear any obvious exhaust leaks.

When I put the bike back together, it was still running rough and idling high. I used the idle adjust screw and managed to get it down to about 1.1k idle. It was blowing either white smoke or steam out of the exhaust at first, but this went away after running it for 10 mins or so. The next morning the smoke/condensation was back and it was still sounding rough. It actually reminded me a lot of an MT-01 I rode once! The annoying thing is that the bike is fine as soon as I start But as soon as I stop it sounds horrible at idle again. I'll take a video tonight and upload. I may have to take it to a garage as I've done no engine work at all before and don't want to make anything worse!

So in summary: it's better than before, but there is still something wrong!

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Drain the whole cooling system for plugs? That's odd

 

[FinalImpact]

You don't have to drain anything. There are two bolts securing the radiator. Remove them and simply let it settle down being careful of the core so it doesn't get damaged by the lower mount.

You pretty much do all four plugs from one side as the frame is in the way on the other side.