Vibration! A cure for bad vibrations, Spark Plug Caps!!

FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Making the bike even smoother than it was....
She got fresh plugs. In 2009 Yamaha spec'd the CR9E plug, so I went with that as the side gap plug always wear fast allowing the gap to change beyond spec. I'm not sure there is any evidence they burn any better.

Take a look here you can see that #2 and #3 are worn in pretty good as they are now OVAL SHAPED electrodes. The gap was way over 0.028" @0.038" Also the Manufactures gap said the NEW plug was supposed to be at 0.028". Only one was. So check those new plugs.
picture.php


More fuel deposits on plug #2. Or is that the aftermath of finding a caps wire loose some 2000 miles ago.
picture.php
 
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FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

This piece of hose is a life saver as there are no worries about dropping the plug in the hole. Just lower it down, give it a few spins (yes, it will thread a plug in a turn or two), then pull up leaving the socket and plug behind. Drop in your 4" extension and tighten the plug.

Also a magnet on the flex stick is great for getting the old plug out should it not come up with your socket...

picture.php
 
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TownsendsFJR1300

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

A piece of electrical or masking tape on the inside of the socket will also hold the plug and it takes up the the little gap.

And for that plug, use a WIRE GAUGE to check the gap, NOT A FLAT gauge. The grounds are slightlycurved in the middle, use your wire guage to fit inbetween that gap and center electrode for an accurate setting.

No anti seize either, that's per the NGK web site as their plugs have a special coating for aluminum heads...:thumbup:
 
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FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Yes, an actual spark plug socket holds a plug but if worn or the rubber is missing, a little tape helps keep the plug in the socket. BUT THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!! The problem is holding the socket and fitting an extension to it WITHOUT DROPPING it in the hole.

^^ That piece of tubing makes this process easy and there is ZERO risk of dropping the plug and socket in the plug hole. Therefor NO risk of plug damage!

Yes, also checked gaps with a wire gauge NOT a FLAT FEELER gauge. An interesting tidbit of info: plug #2 with the greater amount of fuel deposits also has the lowest resistance from the electrode tip to the connector measuring 3.1k ohms compared to the others at 4.1k ohms. Not sure how that would effect its color but #2 an #3 are electrcially worn more than 1 & 4.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Yes, an actual spark plug socket holds a plug but if worn or the rubber is missing, a little tape helps keep the plug in the socket. BUT THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!! The problem is holding the socket and fitting an extension to it WITHOUT DROPPING it in the hole.

^^ That piece of tubing makes this process easy and there is ZERO risk of dropping the plug and socket in the plug hole. Therefor NO risk of plug damage!

Yes, also checked gaps with a wire gauge NOT a FLAT FEELER gauge. An interesting tidbit of info: plug #2 with the greater amount of fuel deposits also has the lowest resistance from the electrode tip to the connector measuring 3.1k ohms compared to the others at 4.1k ohms. Not sure how that would effect its color but #2 an #3 are electrcially worn more than 1 & 4.

I'm very famliar with hose trick, I posted it, years ago (12-15-11) http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/41921-ngk-iridium-spark-plugs-2.html (post #17, approx mid way down) when I replaced the stock plugs with iridiums.

There's some other tricks as well in the thread re checking gaps on the iridiums.

Changed or improper CO settings would change how much fuel/thus deposites are left in each cylinder. if you have the stock CO #'s, you may try putting it back to stock. Its not unusual for each clyinder to have a different setting.

Knowing that there's likely more deposites in one or two cylinders than the others, IMHO, I'd run a strong dose of Seafoam or other upper cylinder cleaner and the the top end as clean as possible..
 
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Ragnar

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

You guys are increasing my quality of life. I chopped 1/4" off each wire and centered the screws. The minor vibrations that remained after syncing my throttle bodies - GONE. Thanks for this thread!!!
 

dpaul007

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Currently in the process of doing this, cylinder 1 is a pia, not much wire to work with at all! All have been loose and not tight so far.

Here are my spark plugs. Gaps are over .03 on all, there is some corrosion on plug 1 (right), and there was a trail left from arcing by on plug 2. No wonder I had bad vibes lately!
zyju5ege.jpg


Well, back to work on #1!
 

FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Currently in the process of doing this, cylinder 1 is a pia, not much wire to work with at all! All have been loose and not tight so far.

Here are my spark plugs. Gaps are over .03 on all, there is some corrosion on plug 1 (right), and there was a trail left from arcing by on plug 2. No wonder I had bad vibes lately!
zyju5ege.jpg


Well, back to work on #1!

How many miles and what are you putting back in? You can see the gap really opened up from wear! Its gonna feel like a new bike!

PS - drop the two bolts out of the radiator just be careful of the cooling fins and let it settle down. Makes it much easier!
 

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Yep, wear will open the gaps.

IMO, I'd set the gap at the smaller end of spec's on the new plugs.

Also, some dilectric grease on the spark plug caps (especially aound the valve cover) will make installation MUCH easier and you'll actually hear the caps snap onto the plugs.

That arcing looks like the #2 cap wasn't fully seated on the plug.

Some moisture was getting in there as indicated by the outside corrosion on #1 plug. That dilectric grease should help that as well keeping water from sneaking down past the caps ..
 

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

How many miles and what are you putting back in? You can see the gap really opened up from wear! Its gonna feel like a new bike!

PS - drop the two bolts out of the radiator just be careful of the cooling fins and let it settle down. Makes it much easier!

Dropping the radiator helped a ton for accessing cylinder 1!

They haven't been changed in the two years I've owned it. just looked looked at the service records from the previous owner, they were done at 12.5k miles, 3.5 years ago. Bike currently has between 23k and 24k.

I'll be putting iridiums in after I pick some up today, along with a spark plug gapper. Can't wait to ride it hopefully feel the smoothness again!
 

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Dropping the radiator helped a ton for accessing cylinder 1!

They haven't been changed in the two years I've owned it. just looked looked at the service records from the previous owner, they were done at 12.5k miles, 3.5 years ago. Bike currently has between 23k and 24k.

I'll be putting iridiums in after I pick some up today, along with a spark plug gapper. Can't wait to ride it hopefully feel the smoothness again!

With the iridiums, you HAVE TO USE a wire gauge style gapper for checking and be very, very gentle with the end. IF the gap needs tightening (or loosening) DO NOT force the ground elctrode with the gauge touching the tip. Adjust STRICTLY BY bending the ground strap.

BTW, when I replaced mine with iridiums, 3 were dead on with the gap, one plug was .001 different (I didn't screw with it)
 

FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Dropping the radiator helped a ton for accessing cylinder 1!

They haven't been changed in the two years I've owned it. just looked looked at the service records from the previous owner, they were done at 12.5k miles, 3.5 years ago. Bike currently has between 23k and 24k.

I'll be putting iridiums in after I pick some up today, along with a spark plug gapper. Can't wait to ride it hopefully feel the smoothness again!

Interesting; 10k and the plugs look pretty warn. I don't see where the cap was loose on #2 (arcing). Am I missing something?

FWIW: if the seal above the main boot is pushed on too far it will prevent the cap from seating fully on the plug. It is suggested you move it up the cap, shove the cap firmly onto the plug while listening and feeling the cap click click click onto to the plug. Once down completely, now seat the round biscuit to stop water and dirt intrusion.

This is just me but adding any grease of any kind at the top of the boot is going to hold debris attracting dirt. JMO but I'd rather not have a blob dirt up there myself.
 

FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

HOW TO TEST YOU COILS AND ECM:

Our bikes have the option of being placed into a diagnostic mode that will trigger each of the coils to deliver 5 sparks. You can use this to test the coils and look for arc over without the engine actually running so you can HEAR electrical leakage should it exist.

** YOU MUST insert a spark plug. **
** YOU MUST ground the body of the spark plug to the engine block. **
An alligator clip to the plugs body and the other end clamped to a bare metal engine surface should be adequate.

DIAGNOSTIC MODE, Setting the diagnostic mode
1. Turn the main switch to “OFF” and set the engine stop switch to “RUN”.
2. Disconnect the wire harness coupler from the fuel pump.
3. Simultaneously press and hold the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons, turn the main switch to “ON”, and continue to press the buttons for 8 seconds or more.
4. Press the “SELECT” button to select the diagnostic monitoring mode “dIAG”.
5. After selecting “dIAG”, simultaneously press the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons for 2 seconds or more to execute the selection.
6. Set the engine stop switch to “OFF”.
7. Select the diagnostic code number that applies to the item that was verified with the fault code number by pressing the “SELECT” and “RESET” buttons.
8. Verify the operation of the sensor or actuator.
• Sensor operation
The data representing the operating conditions of the sensor appears on the trip LCD.
• Actuator operation
Set the engine stop switch to “RUN” to operate the actuator.
If the engine stop switch is set to “RUN”, set it to “STOP”, and then set it to “RUN” again.
9. Turn the main switch to “OFF” to cancel the diagnostic mode.

NOTE:
• To decrease the selected diagnostic code number, press the “RESET” button. Press the “RESET”
button for 1 second or longer to automatically decrease the diagnostic code numbers.
• To increase the selected diagnostic code number, press the “SELECT” button. Press the
“SELECT” button for 1 second or longer to automatically increase the diagnostic code numbers.


Sensor code from operation table:
30: Ignition coil #1, #4
31: Ignition coil #2, #3


Check this while here....
01: Throttle position sensor (throttle angle)

See FSM for other sensors which can be tested in diagnostic mode.

Edit: 2014-01 Adding a pic:
2008 FZ6 Coil:
picture.php
 
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dpaul007

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Interesting; 10k and the plugs look pretty warn. I don't see where the cap was loose on #2 (arcing). Am I missing something?

FWIW: if the seal above the main boot is pushed on too far it will prevent the cap from seating fully on the plug. It is suggested you move it up the cap, shove the cap firmly onto the plug while listening and feeling the cap click click click onto to the plug. Once down completely, now seat the round biscuit to stop water and dirt intrusion.

This is just me but adding any grease of any kind at the top of the boot is going to hold debris attracting dirt. JMO but I'd rather not have a blob dirt up there myself.
The arcing trace was on the side of the plug in the picture, can't really see it. I couldn't get both the gap wear and that trace in the same pic.

Putting them back in, that is exactly what I did. Put some di-electric grease in the cap, pushed on the spark plug as much as I could while listening to the clicks, then made sure that rubber biscuit was covering/sealing the holes.

Took it for a quick spin and took it through the RPM range, a LOT less vibes in the middle and upper RPMs. Now, when I get time, I'll do a TB sync.
 

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Interesting; 10k and the plugs look pretty warn. I don't see where the cap was loose on #2 (arcing). Am I missing something?

FWIW: if the seal above the main boot is pushed on too far it will prevent the cap from seating fully on the plug. It is suggested you move it up the cap, shove the cap firmly onto the plug while listening and feeling the cap click click click onto to the plug. Once down completely, now seat the round biscuit to stop water and dirt intrusion.

.

How can you push the cap on too far??. The spark plug will only allow it downward only so far..

You push down on the cap, the boot follows and seals.. You hear the click, done.

Re the grease, as the boots harden up with age, a small amount of di-lectric grease makes the installation easier. You can wipe off any excess.

BTW, water obviously got in there looking at the base of plug #1, closest to the drain hole in the cylinder...
 

FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

How can you push the cap on too far??.
You push down on the cap, the boot follows and seals.. You hear the click, done.

That's the point - the cap assembly can pop UPWARDS IF the dust seal does not slide on the caps body (especially true if the seal was moved downward on the cap accidentally). So, if there is any chance the CAP is not seating 100% on the plug (You should hear multiple clicks), move the dust seal up the cap, seat the cap on the plug, THEN push the dust seal down onto the valve cover around its entire perimeter so moisture doesn't get in.

Re the grease, as the boots harden up with age, a small amount of di-lectric grease makes the installation easier. You can wipe off any excess.

Yes, you can wipe off excess. IMO its not easy to reach all 360 degrees of the four dust seals and as stated, I don't care for dirt blob. For those who ride year round and spotless engine parts are of less importance than reliable transportation, GREASE IT!

BTW, water obviously got in there looking at the base of plug #1, closest to the drain hole in the cylinder...

Yes, you are correct. H2o was in there. I wasn't in disagreement.
 

TownsendsFJR1300

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

That's the point - the cap assembly can pop UPWARDS IF the dust seal does not slide on the caps body (especially true if the seal was moved downward on the cap accidentally). So, if there is any chance the CAP is not seating 100% on the plug (You should hear multiple clicks), move the dust seal up the cap, seat the cap on the plug, THEN push the dust seal down onto the valve cover around its entire perimeter so moisture doesn't get in.

Yes, you can wipe off excess. IMO its not easy to reach all 360 degrees of the four dust seals and as stated, I don't care for dirt blob. For those who ride year round and spotless engine parts are of less importance than reliable transportation, GREASE IT!

Yes, you are correct. H2o was in there. I wasn't in disagreement.

Your are exactly right that the cap can pop up and that's likely why he had arcing and moisture inside, the cap wasn't on fully.

A small lather of di-lectric grease just around the edge allows it to slide and pop right on, no guessing. I'd politly suggust you try it before immediatly writing it off. It's like stating don't put any grease around the wheel bearing seal lips, or the brake caliper seals, it'll attract dirt. Of course it will, thats why you wash the bike!

For all the pic's up close I've posted of my bike, you won't see any blobs of grease dirt on the valve cover, and the the bikes run daily, 365 days a year. If you can reach the top of the valve cover, pull a spark plug that's set 4" below the top and pluck a spark plug cap off, I don't see why you can't wipe it off. I'm sure you blew the holes out with an air compressor before you pulled the plugs.. I got my inch torque wrench in there and torqued all four plugs to spec.

BTW, you already know, I use di-lectric grease in EVERY electrical connector I take apart. Is it going to attract dirt / grime vs no grease, absolutly! It's worth it to me to keep ALL the moisture out of those connectors causing future problems. I had issues with corrosion in a main electrical connector Yamaha couldn't find in my FJR. With the help of another forum, it was found, cleaned, di-lectric grease applied, no more issues, ever.... That little bit of grease on the edge will also help keep moisture out as well.

Just a tip, take it or leave it...
 

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Interesting thread!

Quick question for OP or whoever has done this:

picture.php


What exactly am I looking at here? Is this in the spark plug boot or wire end or where? How do you pull the spark plug boots apart? Do they just pull, threaded? How does the high tension wire come out of the boot? I would at least like to measure the resistance on mine. since one of them was full of water and arcing over awhile back and since then my fuel economy has never hit 50 mpg again. I wondering if the plug boot that had arcing now has higher resistance than the others.
 

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

That is the end of the spark plug wire. The long plastic cap that goes in to the valve cover holes and plug the spark plugs into screws on to that wire. It was confusing to me at first, too, but it all made sense when I tore in to things. Easiest way is to pop off the cap on plug 4 (right side of bike) and play with that one so you know how everything goes together before you pop the other three off. Have a large flat-head screwdriver on hand if you want to check the resistance of the spark plug cap is described in the OP.
 

FinalImpact

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Re: A cure for bad vibrations, spark plug caps!!

Interesting thread!

Quick question for OP or whoever has done this:

1CoilHTFanOut_zps9ef062a7.jpg~original


What exactly am I looking at here? Is this in the spark plug boot or wire end or where? How do you pull the spark plug boots apart? Do they just pull, threaded? How does the high tension wire come out of the boot? I would at least like to measure the resistance on mine. since one of them was full of water and arcing over awhile back and since then my fuel economy has never hit 50 mpg again. I wondering if the plug boot that had arcing now has higher resistance than the others.

Just like DPaul said, your looking into the high tension lead (HTL) from the coil. There is a spiral wound multi-strand wire in there. I have found that when the screw in the plug cap pushes the core off to one side, engine vibrations increase.

^^ LOOK CLOSELY AT THIS WIRE! WHERE IS THE CENTER? NOTICE HOW OFF CENTER THE CORE IS? HOW DEFORMED THE INSULATION IS? It almost looks like the wires core WAS NEVER IN THE CENTER OF THE WIRE! like it something went wrong in the process. However, the constant pressure from the screw tap may have pushed the inner core to the side deforming the wire.
3SPCExplodedView_zpsca1dcd90.jpg~original



If all is well you twist the caps on the HTL and the wire snugs into the cap AND DOES NOT SPIN FREELY. If it spins freely, trim the wire and fan it out. Screw the cap on. It should screw down and come up snug.

- While the HTL is removed from the cap, measure the caps internal resistance from the screw to the plug lock by sticking probes into each end of the cap. Should be around 10k ohms.
 
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