News on Motorcycle Checkpoints

[FB400]

Motorcycle only checkpoints outrages national lawmakers | Clutch and Chrome

I've been following this whole thing pretty closely since last summer. I had to stop at a Long Island checkpoint and although I wasn't ticketed I felt pretty violated by the whole thing. I've been pretty ticked off about it ever since.

Georgia is now putting these checkpoints in place for a heads up to GA riders.. read this article.

The good news is there is opposition now at a federal level to this practice and also a lawsuit pending in New York.

For NY riders you can join a twitter feed and get notified of where checkponts exist, reported by other riders. Instructions for signing up are here: NYMSTF - Checkpoint Alerts

 

[Powerman]

focus only on equipment violations and forged and stolen VINs

I like this part! Might get some stole bikes back to their proper owners.

 

[FB400]

focus only on equipment violations and forged and stolen VINs

I like this part! Might get some stole bikes back to their proper owners.

Your theory sounds good but also sounds like someone who isn't subject to discriminatory motorcycle only stops. Yeah Yeah whatever, safety inspections and getting stolen bikes back, that's all good. But when you have to stop and show papers and be sweating about that sweet sounding exhaust you have, then it is nothing less then a hassle. These checkpoints suck for pretty much all riders who have to stop. And stopping is mandatory for all bikes.

I am pretty sure you wouldn't want to be delayed and subject to inspection on your next ride. That's the uncertainty riders here are facing

 

[discgolfdude]

If you have aftermarket pipes, what do they say about them at the check points? If your license and insurance is current what is the problem with pulling in and then go. Truck drivers have been doing for years. I know you don't like them, but until they are called illegal you just have to do it, and put up with it. I do wish cars would have to be checked, there are so many cars that shouldn't be on the road for safety reasons. Just my .02

 

[zmeiaspas]

I refuse to be pulled over for no reason and without doing anything wrong. Each and every traffic stop that has been done without any justification whatsoever is a blatant violation of our rights. Being ok with this nonsense is the same as giving up your freedom and telling the government that it's ok to be an obnoxiously intrusive nanny state.

What's next? Should every person on this planet live in a cell for the rest of their lives so we can bring crime rate down to 0%? Sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? You give up your freedom for the benefit of stopping crime. And please don't tell me the above is not comparable to the effortless act of just pulling over and wasting 10-15-20 minutes of your time. The question is not about quantity; the question is about right or wrong, yes or no. Is their a violation of our rights? Yes or no?

Even though I have absolutely nothing to hide, I would also never EVER consent to any searches either. Why? Because it is my right to do so. You suspect I've got something? Well guess what - suspicion alone don't constitute a crime.

There are a ton more efficient ways to battle crime than stupid checkpoints. If you're worried about your bike being stolen just get full coverage and install a Lo-Jack. Nobody who knowingly rides a stolen bike will ever stop at a checkpoint. The only thing that these violation-zones will achieve successfully is to harass the living snot out of us regular folk and generate revenue in the process. I guess we've all grown so accustomed to the artificially low speed limits everywhere that BS tickets no longer even get our attention. Why should we care about having to give money over something dumb that did not endanger absolutely anyone?

IMO these checkpoints are an exceedingly dumb and unacceptable idea overall.

/rant

 

[discgolfdude]

I refuse to be pulled over for no reason and without doing anything wrong. Each and every traffic stop that has been done without any justification whatsoever is a blatant violation of our rights. Being ok with this nonsense is the same as giving up your freedom and telling the government that it's ok to be an obnoxiously intrusive nanny state.

What's next? Should every person on this planet live in a cell for the rest of their lives so we can bring crime rate down to 0%? Sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? You give up your freedom for the benefit of stopping crime. And please don't tell me the above is not comparable to the effortless act of just pulling over and wasting 10-15-20 minutes of your time. The question is not about quantity; the question is about right or wrong, yes or no. Is their a violation of our rights? Yes or no?

Even though I have absolutely nothing to hide, I would also never EVER consent to any searches either. Why? Because it is my right to do so. You suspect I've got something? Well guess what - suspicion alone don't constitute a crime.

There are a ton more efficient ways to battle crime than stupid checkpoints. If you're worried about your bike being stolen just get full coverage and install a Lo-Jack. Nobody who knowingly rides a stolen bike will ever stop at a checkpoint. The only thing that these violation-zones will achieve successfully is to harass the living snot out of us regular folk and generate revenue in the process. I guess we've all grown so accustomed to the artificially low speed limits everywhere that BS tickets no longer even get our attention. Why should we care about having to give money over something dumb that did not endanger absolutely anyone?

IMO these checkpoints are an exceedingly dumb and unacceptable idea overall.

/rant

I never said that it was right, or just. I'm saying if it is a law to pull into the check point, then do it. Fighting it legally is the right thing to do. I'm not worried about my bike getting stolen, if it does, I have enough insurance on it to replace it. However, when it comes to the law, you do it cause it is the law. If they do something that wasn't justifiable, then you take it to court.

What you said that you refuse to be pulled over for no reason doesn't make sense. If you didn't do anything wrong then you deal with it. If you don't pull over, you'll be making matters worse, and they are justified to pull you over for evading. You have to use your head, and know how the system works. Laws aren't always there to benefit you or hurt you.

Now in the bible, Jesus thought us this...
Mark 12:14-17 (New International Version, ©2011)

14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”

But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him.


We must follow the law, but we have the right as citizens of the United States to use the resources that are available to us, to make changes.

 

[zmeiaspas]

I never said that it was right, or just. I'm saying if it is a law to pull into the check point, then do it. Fighting it legally is the right thing to do. I'm not worried about my bike getting stolen, if it does, I have enough insurance on it to replace it. However, when it comes to the law, you do it cause it is the law. If they do something that wasn't justifiable, then you take it to court.

What you said that you refuse to be pulled over for no reason doesn't make sense. If you didn't do anything wrong then you deal with it. If you don't pull over, you'll be making matters worse, and they are justified to pull you over for evading. You have to use your head, and know how the system works. Laws aren't always there to benefit you or hurt you.

Now in the bible, Jesus thought us this...
Mark 12:14-17 (New International Version, ©2011)

14 They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not? 15 Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”

But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16 They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

17 Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”

And they were amazed at him.


We must follow the law, but we have the right as citizens of the United States to use the resources that are available to us, to make changes.

1. When I wrote my post I never targeted it to you specifically. Just making this clear.

2. When I said that I refuse to be pulled over I didn't mean it literally. I obviously don't want to end up in a hot pursuit followed by criminal charges and whatnot. I do know that not stopping is not the way to fight this nonsense. So yes - I agree with you on that. I was just expressing my strong disdain towards this entire checkpoint deal and explaining why I find it to be unacceptable.

3. I'm an atheist and I believe in my right to be free.

Cheers!

 

[discgolfdude]

1. When I wrote my post I never targeted it to you specifically. Just making this clear.

2. When I said that I refuse to be pulled over I didn't mean it literally. I obviously don't want to end up in a hot pursuit followed by criminal charges and whatnot. I do know that not stopping is not the way to fight this nonsense. So yes - I agree with you on that. I was just expressing my strong disdain towards this entire checkpoint deal and explaining why I find it to be unacceptable.

3. I'm an atheist and I believe in my right to be free.

Cheers!

No problem man, I just wanted you to be safe!

 

[amanlisman]

Each and every traffic stop that has been done without any justification whatsoever is a blatant violation of our rights. Being ok with this nonsense is the same as giving up your freedom and telling the government that it's ok to be an obnoxiously intrusive nanny state.

How I love this forum! What an insight into how things work in the US and other countries!

Here in France, the police and gendarmes (police inside towns, gendarmes outside) mount check-points anywhere at all and for any reason (alcohol beath-test, ownership papers/insurance, road-worthiness of the vehicle, etc). You just stop, be polite, and go on your merry way a few minutes later. It's completely arbitrary about who they stop. They give you a good look, and then decide if you're to be stopped or not. Unfortunately, if you're white, you have much less chance of being stopped and then of being hassled or not once you've been stopped, if you get my meaning.

My brother in law who's name is Karim recently got a ticket for not waiting his turn in bumper to bumper traffic on a three lane road and so driving up through the traffic, which of course we all do, but which technically is an offense. The next day, doing the same thing (he lives in Paris and drives to work on his bike), the same cops stopped him and gave him another ticket. That sort of thing just doesn't happen to people with blond hair and light skin (namely, me).

A different type of check is speed radars which are mounted on road-sides and obviously target only those breaking the law.

One important detail, at the moment in France government money is very tight and I personally haven't been stopped for about four years because there are fewer police on the roads. In the ten years previous, I was stopped many times for a breath-test (always negative, naturellement!) and just to check my documents, with warnings for a wrong address, a wrong coloured number plate (white background instead of yellow!), and a worn tyre, not all on the same day, I might add.

 

[RJ2112]

I'm not into Gestapo tactics, and getting hassled for no reason......

Walking down a street, and having the LEOs stop you and ask for papers, do a pat down search without probable cause is a violation of an American's civil rights.

But I do recognize that the constitution says nothing about riding a motorcycle or driving a car. We are not given the right to drive by the law. It's a privilege. Treat it as such.

 

[amanlisman]

I'm not into Gestapo tactics, and getting hassled for no reason......

Walking down a street, and having the LEOs stop you and ask for papers, do a pat down search without probable cause is a violation of an American's civil rights.

That's what I love about America! You guys stand up for your rights and there's a consensus about what's acceptable and what's not. Here, there's a general acceptance that the police are allowed to ask you for your identity for no reason at all. Nobody finds that strange! As an Irishman living in France, I'll never get used to it. But I have learnt to be very polite with policemen because otherwise they can turn into the Gestapo very quickly... (and let's not forget that the Gestapo spend four years' holidays here in the middle of the last century, and left behind a few of their methods). No offence intended to any Germans reading this, for whom I have the greatest admiration and respect.

One other thing, here cars must get a 'controle technique' (all things related to a car's road-worthiness are checked) starting 4 years after being new on the road, then every 2 years.

Bikes are not subjected to this check but the 'controle technique' control center lobby is trying to have the law changed so as to oblige bikes to be included in this legislation. The bike lobby is fighting against the move, using the argument that bikers are much more attached to their machines and are more aware of the importance of keeping everything in perfect working order for their own safety.

Finally, just in case I give the wrong impression, I am in favour of having policemen on our roads and truly believe in their 'protect and serve' function.

 

[RJ2112]

US law enforcement is on the whole a very good force. That we have the ability to complain about something this minor is an indication of how well the whole system works.

I don't condone the 'If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide' argument. I want the government as far out of my affairs as I can manage.

If a posted check point discovers a vehicle with multiple equipment violations, which have to be corrected....... how is that a bad thing for everyone else?

 

[FB400]

US law enforcement is on the whole a very good force. That we have the ability to complain about something this minor is an indication of how well the whole system works.

I don't condone the 'If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide' argument. I want the government as far out of my affairs as I can manage.

If a posted check point discovers a vehicle with multiple equipment violations, which have to be corrected....... how is that a bad thing for everyone else?

RJ2112-
It only sounds good in theory. Cruising along your favorite road and then seeing signs that Motorcycles only must stop is infuriating. Add a 15 minute delay and the uncertainty that police will either find something wrong or stretch the application of law to give a you a ticket is wrong. It is wrong via the 4th amendment for illegal search and seizure.

My actual experience of having to stop really wasn't that bad, that particular time. What I found was the cops were respectful and really they should have been. Me and my buddy rolled in there, in full gear on a hot day, had our papers ready in an instant and gave full cooperation. We were asked to run the bikes so police could hear the exhaust. I think they checked the light and other stuff.

 

[FB400]

If you have aftermarket pipes, what do they say about them at the check points?

The answer is you could very well get a ticket for them based on the LEO's discretion. I had just installed Leo vince that same week. I had the baffles out. I was sweating bullets when they asked me to run it. They even had me rev it. I thought that thing sounds awesome!! I hope I don't get a ticket! Call me lucky, no ticket

 

[RJ2112]

RJ2112-
It only sounds good in theory. Cruising along your favorite road and then seeing signs that Motorcycles only must stop is infuriating. Add a 15 minute delay and the uncertainty that police will either find something wrong or stretch the application of law to give a you a ticket is wrong. It is wrong via the 4th amendment for illegal search and seizure.

My actual experience of having to stop really wasn't that bad, that particular time. What I found was the cops were respectful and really they should have been. Me and my buddy rolled in there, in full gear on a hot day, had our papers ready in an instant and gave full cooperation. We were asked to run the bikes so police could hear the exhaust. I think they checked the light and other stuff.

My point being, you are consenting to inspection, by operating a vehicle on a public road. Your registration and D/L are pretty obvious indicators that the right to unrestricted movement is not in play.... you pay for the privilege of use. It's not a right.

An inspection that confirms you are in compliance with the stipulations of that use? How is that a Bad Thing? Other than the minor inconvenience of potentially getting stopped and delayed.

A pretty minor issue, in my view.

 

[FB400]

I respect your opinion even if it diametrically opposes mine

 

[RJ2112]

I'm not convinced our opinions are any different. I don't like government intervention. I consider it a waste of time and resources, as well as a personal irritant. We're supposed to be the masters of our own destiny. :thumbup:

I merely recognize that my civil liberties end at the tip of my nose, as described by Wil Rogers. We're all in the same pool, and we have to cooperate to be successful. As motorcyclists we represent 1% of the motoring public.

I don't want or need a nanny state.

If Joe LEO paints all of us with the same brush due to the actions of some much smaller percentage, it's mainly because we don't police ourselves. And because some amount of social rebellion is built into riding. We're collectively thumbing our noses at the establishment..... it's hard to imagine the establishment not reacting.

 

[fizz_off]

If you have aftermarket pipes, what do they say about them at the check points? If your license and insurance is current what is the problem with pulling in and then go. Truck drivers have been doing for years. I know you don't like them, but until they are called illegal you just have to do it, and put up with it. I do wish cars would have to be checked, there are so many cars that shouldn't be on the road for safety reasons. Just my .02

Exactly - if there's nothing to worry about (i.e., "guilty conscience"), what's the big deal? Personally, I hope they start doing the same here in MA. Ask yourself this question - why do you think this came about? Because everyone is such a law abiding citizen? (NOT!)

<RANT>
I'm tired of feeling like I'm the only one driving/riding a vehicle that complies with DMV/DOT requirements. I'm REALLY LOOKING FORWARD to not having to listen to 10000 DB loud "custom" exhausts (Harley/choppers and sport bikes alike) and those stooPID "tooners" blatting their way up the hill while the bass in their customized stereos vibrates the body parts (and shakes the walls of my house). :spank: :Flip:
</RANT>

 

[fizz_off]

1. When I wrote my post I never targeted it to you specifically. Just making this clear.

2. When I said that I refuse to be pulled over I didn't mean it literally. I obviously don't want to end up in a hot pursuit followed by criminal charges and whatnot. I do know that not stopping is not the way to fight this nonsense. So yes - I agree with you on that. I was just expressing my strong disdain towards this entire checkpoint deal and explaining why I find it to be unacceptable.

3. I'm an atheist and I believe in my right to be free.

Cheers!

Not to jack this thread but I don't think atheism has anything to do with (man's) law. Did you mean, "anarchist"?

 

[novaks47]

These checkpoints are there for one simple reason : Revenue. Any other "reasons" they give are simply propaganda. It has nothing to do with safety or anything else. It's just a nice, easy way to rake in revenue. It costs states and counties much less to set up a checkpoint than it does for them to drive around burning gas looking for offenders. They can instead sit back, relax, and let the revenue come to them!