Braking Distance

[DefyInertia]

Anyone have a good layman's method for measuring stopping distance on a bike or car?

Murano 122 ft.

Hellz yeah, I love that SUV...handles like a car and lays down some good power too.

 

[wrightme43]

Anyone have a good layman's method for measuring stopping distance on a bike or car?



Hellz yeah, I love that SUV...handles like a car and lays down some good power too.

Nissan and Mazda kick ass.

 

[Oblisk]

Corvette does 60-0 in 113 feet.
Porsche 911 60-0 119 feet.
Toyota minivan 60-0 135 feet
Dodge minivan 60-0 131 feet.
Harley 883 sportser 60-0 133 feet.
Ford F-350 60-0 170 feet.
Mazda Miata 60-0 113 feet.

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrh0muW5pd8[/nomedia]

SLR mclaren 120-0 in 240 ft:rockon:

 

[craig007]

I measued FZ6 stopping distance in a parking lot at up to 30 mph starting speed. Assuming that the 30 mph deceleration rate is the same at 60 mph, this would translate to a stopping distance of 110 feet. I think that this can be achieved (in theory) but there is a big difference between practicing in a parking lot vs being out on the road when it is stop-or-die because of the panic factor. I believe that a car has a much better chance of achieving its theoretical stopping distance.

http://www.600riders.com/forum/new-riders-q/908-how-fast-can-you-stop.html

I think the lesson here is that a 3 or 4 second follow distance is a good idea (as opposed to the standard 2 seconds).

 

[wrightme43]

That is one awesome machine. The Stig is a super driver too.

 

[wrightme43]

I wonder what stopping distance is from 140 on the bike?


One thing to remember about stopping distance as well, is that if you have a mark to stop at you can anticipate.
If you are surprised by a left turn car you have reaction time to take into acount as well.
.5 to react at 140 is 102 feet down the road, the next .5 to get wieght onto the front is 102 down the road. Then it could really start to lay into the brakes though.

I want a test track and a test bike, and test gear, and sponsors, and paramedics/fire standing about hanging out. Free tires and pads would be nice too.

Anybody wanna donate to the let Steve have fun fund?

 

[Wavex]

I have no clue about ABS vs. non-ABS performance...was just trying to learn something. If the highly skilled rider/driver can keep the bike/car at threshhold without ABS, why can't they do that with ABS? Does ABS kick in BEFORE you've braked too hard??????

ABS just makes sure your front tire never locks for more than a very little amount of time. It kicks in right after you lock your tires, and releases the front brake for you for a 1/10 (or something like that) of a second and then compresses slowly again until it locks again... then it just cycles until you're at a stop.

It can save your bike, especially in wet conditions or anytime traction is not optimum and you have to perform an emergency stop, or release the brake lever.

You're comparing a sportbike to an SUV? How about a FZ6 to a miata or something more on par. Eitherway, my comparison was with regard to high performance machines, whether 2 or 4 wheel. The best cars will stomp the best bikes in just about everything except the slalom.

I bet my fiance's SUV Nissan Murano (w/ 4 wheel disc/ABS and big wheels/tires) can stop faster that most members of this site (on their FZ6)...but I have nothing to base that on...lol...anyone got numbers for the murano?

I`d bet against the Murano vs a modern SS bike

I was just adding to your statement "that cars will out perform bikes", by saying that you`re talking about race cars. Else the line is not always that obvious :rockon:

 

[DefyInertia]

ABS just makes sure your front tire never locks for more than a very little amount of time. It kicks in right after you lock your tires, and releases the front brake for you for a 1/10 (or something like that) of a second and then compresses slowly again until it locks again... then it just cycles until you're at a stop.

So based on that statement one would have to assume the "flawless rider" would stop both ABS and non-ABS equipped bikes in the same amount of time since in theory he or she would never engage the Anti-lock braking system?

Anyone?

EDIT - you should be able to stoppie (endo) with ABS brakes, right?

 

[HavBlue]

The IIHS report, issued December 10, 1996, notes that in single-vehicle accidents, cars with antilock brakes are as much as 44% more likely to produce fatalities than are cars without the antilock system.

Now this is most likely due to drivers letting up off the brakes when they pulsate.

Yes.......!!!

The problems with ABS systems have generally been the operator as opposed to the actual system. This is simply because the average driver is still in the pump your foot mode from the past and it's the worst thing you could do with an ABS system. Years ago we had some interesting complaints from Corvette owners that said the pedal was pushing back at their foot. What was happening was the brake computer was trying to tell them to back off as the pressure "applied" was too severe for the conditions. Funny thing is folks still have trouble using the ABS in an appropriate manner.

 

[wrightme43]

So based on that statement one would have to assume the "flawless rider" would stop both ABS and non-ABS equipped bikes in the same amount of time since in theory he or she would never engage the Anti-lock braking system?

Anyone?

EDIT - you should be able to stoppie (endo) with ABS brakes, right?

Flawless rider, yes withen just a few feet of each other, the non abs stopping quicker.

I dont know if they will endo or not. Kinda makes me wanna ask on the VFR forum. I bet they wont though. If they did I could see it coming on and off really quickly upseting it pretty bad.

 

[Wavex]

So based on that statement one would have to assume the "flawless rider" would stop both ABS and non-ABS equipped bikes in the same amount of time since in theory he or she would never engage the Anti-lock braking system?

Anyone?

EDIT - you should be able to stoppie (endo) with ABS brakes, right?

Correct. ABS won`t help braking the bike... it`ll just make sure it does not lock.

edit: I may be wrong on that ^^ I am reading ABS also assist in braking and balances the front and rear brakes? hmmmm

the article also states that the CBR 1000 RR will have ABS in Europe starting 2010!

 

[wrightme43]

Yes.......!!!

The problems with ABS systems have generally been the operator as opposed to the actual system. This is simply because the average driver is still in the pump your foot mode from the past and it's the worst thing you could do with an ABS system. Years ago we had some interesting complaints from Corvette owners that said the pedal was pushing back at their foot. What was happening was the brake computer was trying to tell them to back off as the pressure "applied" was too severe for the conditions. Funny thing is folks still have trouble using the ABS in an appropriate manner.

Check this out. Now the car companies are adding brake line pressure Increasing devices. When the wieght first transfers forward in a panic stop the tires can take tremendous amounts of braking force with out lock up, more than can be applied by a driver for just few split seconds. So now the car is providing it for you. Wooo!! LOL

Downsides of all this, closer following distances, with drivers planning on something they dont know how to use to save their asses.

 

[GConn]

Maybe non-ABS FZ6 can put some little wheels like in the vid.....J/K

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zv3Sacl7JQ"]YouTube - ABS vs. No ABS[/ame]

This is a panic braking test I think, comparing ABS vs non ABS. Mine has ABS on it and has indeed saved me from a bad situation yesterday (such as entering the trunk of the car in front of me on traffic lights. Green lights, car brakes fast for no obvious reason, I am really close, panic and pull the lever too hard)

I am pretty sure that on the track and in tests non ABS performs better, no doubt, but when a car pulls out and cuts your path, I think I'll opt for the ABS. That's me though, maybe a more experienced rider can do better without it.

 

[Wavex]

Some people argue that it takes away the need to learn how to really use the brakes on a motorcycle... I can see that point of view.

I believe that it`s great for the streets though.

 

[HavBlue]

Downsides of all this, closer following distances, with drivers planning on something they dont know how to use to save their asses.

Considering the price of gas now have you heard of "high milers"? In going to dinner with a friend that is a Kentucky State Trooper he brought this up after I had told him about a guy on a bike that was following an 18 wheeler so close there wasn't the length of the bike between where the rider was and the end of the trailer. Apparently since gas prices have gone up the Troopers have observed an increase in rear end accidents. Folks are drafting "tailgating" to gain fuel mileage with a total disregard for stopping distances thus the increase in accidents of that type. That's crazy!!!

 

[grommit]

My car has EBA (Emergency Brake Assist) on top of the ABS. So in an emergency stop it keeps max pressure on the brakes even thou the driver might not be pushing hard enough. It also puts on the hazard lights when doing an emergency stop. I expect they'd be on all the time in town on the bike.

 

[wrightme43]

Considering the price of gas now have you heard of "high milers"? In going to dinner with a friend that is a Kentucky State Trooper he brought this up after I had told him about a guy on a bike that was following an 18 wheeler so close there wasn't the length of the bike between where the rider was and the end of the trailer. Apparently since gas prices have gone up the Troopers have observed an increase in rear end accidents. Folks are drafting "tailgating" to gain fuel mileage with a total disregard for stopping distances thus the increase in accidents of that type. That's crazy!!!

Thats a new one on me. I used work on them things and I stay really far away from them. I could almost always find something just wrong, lots of times dangerously wrong. Not to even mention tread chunks.

 

[wrightme43]

Hey man!!!!


I think if I remember right it was from Mototrend. They have a test summary in the back of every issue of all the cars so far they have tested.

Hope it helps.

Steve

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Something not pointed out here is inertia.

A car is considerably heavier than the FZ6 (or most motorcycles). Trying to stop the heavier object (car) is going to take considerably more force than the lighter object (FZ6). Most newer cars have single piston disc brakes in the front and sometime's a single disc in the rear. The FZ has 8 pistons up ft, 2 in the back. The FZ or any other high performance bike is going to stop considerably shorter than an average car. There's less momentum and considrably more braking power. With SS hardlines on the FZ, stopping improves drastically.... The weight to braking force is considerably different between the average car and a high performance bike...

All ABS is doing (car or bike) is preventing the wheel/tire from locking up (engaging/dis-engaging very quickly) in slippery conditions. Some of the sport touring, most of the touring bikes have linked brakes and ABS standard...

If you've been riding awhile and have much experiance, you can generally stop quicker without ABS if your keeping your head and concentrating on stopping. Yes, you can panic, and lock up a wheel, thats trouble ABS could prevent.

Of course, tire condition, brake, weather, rider, etc, condition's will all play into the equation..

I can speak from experiance, many years ago while trying to get to the station quickly (motor Officer) as it was about to pour-summer in Florida (on my full dress Harly-no ABS back then) the rear tire started loosing traction as I was coming into the corner too hot and the road was wet. I could feel the rear wheel trying to lock. Unfortunatly there was a garbage truck right where I was headed waiting to make a left, and I was headed straight for him. I climbed on the front brakes as hard as I dared (keeping it straight) and pumping the rear brake just as quick. I could feel it beginning to lock up so I would gently/quickly release it to a point of traction again. I could have easily dumped it and slid into the truck but was able to stop, literally, within 2-3 feet of the driver. He looked at me, I at him made a right and was gone. Had I panicked and locked them up we would have met...

 

[DefyInertia]

Hey man!!!!


I think if I remember right it was from Mototrend. They have a test summary in the back of every issue of all the cars so far they have tested.

Hope it helps.

Steve

back from the dead :thumbup:

Something not pointed out here is inertia.

sssshiiiiaaaT.....defy it.