Sorry not bike related in the slightest.

[Nelly]

I have a 2001 2.9 diesel Kia sedona. I have only had it a month and It is using coolant like nobodys business.
I have topped it up and ran it to release any air locks. I did 50 miles yesterday and today needed to add 1.5 litres (2.5 pints) of coolant.
Im thinking head gasket as there are no leaks from the coolant system itself. The smoke out of the rear is clear. How can I tell if its in the oil.
There is some bubbling in the radiator with the cap off.

Neil

 

[Boneman]

Uh oh, that does not sound good mate. Could be a head gasket.

If you are going through that much coolant without any visible leaks, it could be ending up in your oil (Cracked cyclinder wall, water jacket, etc.). I went through this issue with a V6 Chev Cavalier.

Just drain your oil. If it looks like chocolate milk (creamy brown colour) then you have an internal coolant leak somewhere and it is getting into your oil. You can also try taking the oil filler cap off from the valve cover and if it has gunky, choco milk looking stuff up in the cap, you have fluid in the oil. Not good news if you do I'm affraid. If it's a minor leak into the oil, you will see droplets of coolant in or on the oil's surface (as we all know water and oil don't mix).

The source of my leaking was a cracked cylinder wall in the #1 cylinder and I had to buy a refurbished short block and rebuild/swap the engine out. Sounds like yous may be leaking elsewhere because if it is a leak in the cylinder wall(s), you will end up burning some of the coolant, which will produce a light, white smoke from your exhaust in which you can smell the "sweet" smell of the coolant.

To help diagnose if it's the head gasket, you might want to do a compression check/test with a compression guage on each cylinder to see if you're losing any compression.

If there is no coolant in your oil, then it must be burning off (in cylinder(s)) as it has to be going somewhere.

Another posiblity is that your rad is boling it all over? Could be a seized water pump or broken thermostat (not opening). What happens if you fill up the coolant and just let you car run/idle in the driveway for 30min? Does the rad boil over and coolant bubbles up and out of the rad overflow?

 

[bikerider]

If it is smokeing and spitting water out of the exhaust, i would think its the head gaskets. I had my head gaskets go out on my old mustang and it did this, but would also over heat. I would check the oil dipstick and see what the oil looks like and smells like. Or just take it back to the dealership and complain. Just my opinion. :Sport:

 

[wrightme43]

There is also a simple test that can be done at auto repair shops that tests for coolant and exhaust gases in the oil.

 

[grommit]

When oil and water mix like that they form an emulsion. This is like a mayonnaise like substance. Check where you fill the oil and the dip stick for signs also breather hoses.

 

[wrightme43]

Sorry broke stupid there.

Its a test for exhaust gasses in the coolant.

 

[reiobard]

Uh oh, that does not sound good mate. Could be a head gasket.

If you are going through that much coolant without any visible leaks, it could be ending up in your oil (Cracked cyclinder wall, water jacket, etc.). I went through this issue with a V6 Chev Cavalier.

Just drain your oil. If it looks like chocolate milk (creamy brown colour) then you have an internal coolant leak somewhere and it is getting into your oil. You can also try taking the oil filler cap off from the valve cover and if it has gunky, choco milk looking stuff up in the cap, you have fluid in the oil. Not good news if you do I'm affraid. If it's a minor leak into the oil, you will see droplets of coolant in or on the oil's surface (as we all know water and oil don't mix).

The source of my leaking was a cracked cylinder wall in the #1 cylinder and I had to buy a refurbished short block and rebuild/swap the engine out. Sounds like yous may be leaking elsewhere because if it is a leak in the cylinder wall(s), you will end up burning some of the coolant, which will produce a light, white smoke from your exhaust in which you can smell the "sweet" smell of the coolant.

To help diagnose if it's the head gasket, you might want to do a compression check/test with a compression guage on each cylinder to see if you're losing any compression.

If there is no coolant in your oil, then it must be burning off (in cylinder(s)) as it has to be going somewhere.

Another posiblity is that your rad is boling it all over? Could be a seized water pump or broken thermostat (not opening). What happens if you fill up the coolant and just let you car run/idle in the driveway for 30min? Does the rad boil over and coolant bubbles up and out of the rad overflow?

this guy knows his stuff, this is exactly right, if the exhaust smells like burnt maple syrup then it is burning through the engine and if the oil look slike choco milk then it is in the oil.

Might be a stupid question but are you filling the rad or the reservoir? If the reservoir then you could have a crack in the bottom of that canister causing it to leak out (since you mentioned that when you uncap the rad it has visible coolant in there). Also check your hoses with the car running up to temp to make sure there are no pinholes or leaking around the connections.

 

[Nelly]

this guy knows his stuff, this is exactly right, if the exhaust smells like burnt maple syrup then it is burning through the engine and if the oil look slike choco milk then it is in the oil.

Might be a stupid question but are you filling the rad or the reservoir? If the reservoir then you could have a crack in the bottom of that canister causing it to leak out (since you mentioned that when you uncap the rad it has visible coolant in there). Also check your hoses with the car running up to temp to make sure there are no pinholes or leaking around the connections.

Hi mate,
I am filling the rad. Which was replaced just before I purchased the car. Yesterday there was no visible coolant below the rad cap. The oil looks very black and used. It was allegedly serviced only a month ago. This should have included an oil change.

 

[Nelly]

Uh oh, that does not sound good mate. Could be a head gasket.

If there is no coolant in your oil, then it must be burning off (in cylinder(s)) as it has to be going somewhere.

Another posiblity is that your rad is boling it all over? Could be a seized water pump or broken thermostat (not opening). What happens if you fill up the coolant and just let you car run/idle in the driveway for 30min? Does the rad boil over and coolant bubbles up and out of the rad overflow?

Thanks Boneman,
I left the car running today for 40 minutes, the bloody guage only just reached the first 1/4. So I went for a rag around the block. I will check the level in the morning. One thing I did notice was. When I booted it the temp guage danced up and down before settling.
I can see a small amount of oil on the outside crankcase. But no more than I would expect for a 6 year-old engine with 80,000 miles on it.
I really appriciate your advice as I am not a gifted engine mechanic. I want to be able to present a strong argument to the dealer when I take it back.
I will check the oil tomorrow to see if there is any coolant in it.

Thanks Man.

 

[Boneman]

Anytime! Diagnosing cooling issues can be a real pain to find the ture problem.

It's normal for your temp guage to slowly rise when you increase engine RPM. Basically your engine will continualy cycle from low to high temp, then the thermostat will open at the set "High temp" point. When it opens, it allows the cool coolant to now flow through and around the engine to cool it off. This cycle should happen even when idling.

1. Temp guage will slowly and steadily rise in tempature.
2. At high temp point, themostat will open and temp guage will fall rapidly and settle.
3. Cycle repeats.

Good news about the oil looking normal. So I would be looking towards a faulty thermostat or water pump (or both).

 

[Nelly]

Anytime! Diagnosing cooling issues can be a real pain to find the ture problem.

It's normal for your temp guage to slowly rise when you increase engine RPM. Basically your engine will continualy cycle from low to high temp, then the thermostat will open at the set "High temp" point. When it opens, it allows the cool coolant to now flow through and around the engine to cool it off. This cycle should happen even when idling.

1. Temp guage will slowly and steadily rise in tempature.
2. At high temp point, themostat will open and temp guage will fall rapidly and settle.
3. Cycle repeats.

Good news about the oil looking normal. So I would be looking towards a faulty thermostat or water pump (or both).

Sorry man I didn't make my point very clearly. The temperature guage was reacting with the acceleration and braking. I have never seen that before.

 

[Nelly]

Is there a way to check if the pump is working and the thermostat is working.
Cheers.

Neil

 

[Boneman]

Temp guage moving when braking?!?!? Wow, lol, that's a new one!

Not sure about the pump, but you can check a thermostat's operation by removing it for its housing (usually located near the front and top of the engine and there is a large rubber hose running to it form the radiator). Then boil up a pot of water and drop the thermostat into the boiling water. You should hear it 'snap' open. If nothing happens, then it's shot.

Just make sure to let the engine cool down before you attempt to remove the thermostat. Crack the rad cap too to release any built up preasure.

I would go back to your dealer with it regardless and get them to do a full check on it.

 

[Nelly]

Once again thanks. I have joined a kia forum to try and get a sevice manual download. Its not happened yet though.

 

[jsteinb95]

No offense Neil, but Kia's are JUNK. I would get rid of it if possible. I had a brand new 2005 Kia Sorento, I had it for about 1 month and the regulator for the window quit working, the auto door locks quit working and found out, when it rained one night, that the seal for the hatch window was not sealed. Then about 5 months later, I was washing it and noticed that the paint was chipping on the bumper and on the doors. I dropped the wash rag and drove 50 miles to get rid of it. I paid $26,000 for it, which was paid off, it had 500 miles on it when I traded it in and the dealership gave me $13,000 for it. Biggest mistake of my life was buying that stupid thing.
Anyways, I know that doesn't answer your question, sorry, just wanted to let you know what I think about Kia.

 

[HavBlue]

No offense Neil, but Kia's are JUNK.

If somebody had a particular ride that always seemed to be a problem would it be fair to say the whole line of vehicles were junk? Of course not. Especially when the owner's surveyed happen to have indicated otherwise. I've had more than my share of rides. My first was a 49 Ford business sedan with a flat head V8 and a 3 on the tree. Since that time I could probably have words with more than a few vehicle manufacturing engineers. Bottom line is they're all junk. It's just that some may be junkier than others and we could all find problems with the finest vehicles built if we looked hard enough...

 

[jsteinb95]

If somebody had a particular ride that always seemed to be a problem would it be fair to say the whole line of vehicles were junk? Of course not. Especially when the owner's surveyed happen to have indicated otherwise. I've had more than my share of rides. My first was a 49 Ford business sedan with a flat head V8 and a 3 on the tree. Since that time I could probably have words with more than a few vehicle manufacturing engineers. Bottom line is they're all junk. It's just that some may be junkier than others and we could all find problems with the finest vehicles built if we looked hard enough...

I just gave 1 example, I have plenty more for Kia.

 

[sportrider]

No offense Neil, but Kia's are JUNK.

+1 the Kia had the 3.5 Litre V-6 it had good power but averaged 12 MPG if you search the web you'll see thats normal. I have a problem with a compact SUV with a V-6 that gets worse gas mileage than a full size pickup with a V-8 not to mention the body roll that thing had was unreal. it felt like it was going to roll on the easiest of corners. the brakes were mushy, in the time we owned that "car" the dealer had two warranty the front rotors twice and the calipers once. that should never happen on a new car. I've owned many new cars and never had any problems that even came close to the "K.I.A." (killed in action)

that's just my 2 cents

as for your Kia, Neil sounds like a blown head gasket. but before you go tearing it down double check and make sure there isn't a bleeder for the cooling system on some cars air can get trapped in the engine and the only way to get it out is through a small bleeder screw, it will look like a brake bleeder on a high point on the engine(possibly on the intake plenum) the only other thing I can think of is if it has electric cooling fans are they working?
good luck!!! hopefully our Kia was just a limon, and thats not the case with yours.:thumbup:

 

[HavBlue]

+1 the Kia had the 3.5 Litre V-6 it had good power but averaged 12 MPG if you search the web you'll see thats normal. I have a problem with a compact SUV with a V-6 that gets worse gas mileage than a full size pickup with a V-8 not to mention the body roll that thing had was unreal.

Hard to tell what's right and wrong here but one thing is for certain, 12mpg is not normal for that engine. Especially when we have yet to find why it may be doing this bad. One thing is for certain, they dang sure didn't get 12mpg when the EPA tested them. Yeah, I know, the EPA tests are all rigged and we mere mortals could never do as well as they did. Actually I have yet to find a vehicle I couldn't meet or beat the figure the EPA came up with. But then again there are still folks that will defend a tailgate being down to get better mpg and that dog don't hunt either. Interesting that in new car surveys the KIA does better than Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Volkswagen, Mitsubishi and Scion.

 

[Nelly]

my 2 cents

Hi J and Danny,

I have also had previous Kia's I traded my 04 rio in for the sedona. The RIO was an excellent car. I never had any problems with it. Cheap to maintain and service. I have driven it to Ireland 5 times.
I know tha there were quality issues with some of the earlier models. We have all had cars that we thought were a complete pile of junk. I would like to get rid of the Sedona as my confidence in it has now gone. Unfortunately I can't afford that option.
Danny I will have a look for the bleeder. Does the engine need to be running at temperature to bleed the system?

HavBlue, Kia also out perform so called better brands in the UK. They are the 7th largest importer here in the UK. My Sedona does about 37 mpg which I think is great.

Happy New Year

NEIL