(saying this using a voice similar to "Patrick" in a Spongebob episode), is step on the gas.
:spank::ban:
I agree, with the looking through turns, the amount of additional time it gives you facilitates a much smoother ride.Definitely the stoppies:thumbup:.
:justkidding:
I'm gonna have to say that looking through turns is the easiest most natural thing in the world...I couldn't imagine not doing it....and then the stoppies would be next
Cheers
Mike
Similar to me, but when I learned to drive, my dad being an ex Bonneville/Aerial rider, would teach me to ALWAYS look over my shoulder for bikes.
.
I would have a hard time wobbling around corners and changing my lines if I didn't look through the turn....I seriously can't understand how anyone could ride without doing it. It would feel totally un-natural
For me, looking through the turn means...(and I gave this a bit of thought first, so I think I've got it all in there...lol.):thumbup:
Just before braking, A quick head check of the exit if it's visible (just in case...see picture),
View attachment 24847If these guys flick a look now they will see me.
then my eyes sweep the braking zone then braking begins. Eyes move through the turn and then I tip in using peripheral to spot the center line. Depending on how gnarly the turn is and how far through it I can see I try to look about 2/3 of the way through at tip in and I'm already looking at the exit before I'm at the apex.
This will give you an idea what I mean. Bear in mind these roads are covered with gum trees so there are branches and leaf litter to dodge all on bitumen layed over tree roots....lol....so scanning the braking area and sweeping up and through the turn is critical.
FZ! Cruising the hills on Vimeo
There is also one merge in it (on a bend) and you can see a head check over the right shoulder. (The old man used to drive the family all over OZ and always managed to pull us out of harm's way. If he says always check your blind spot....always check your blind spot).
You'll also notice that for left handers I hang off (a little....only a cruise after all) but push my head back up to see as far around the bend as I can. Again this is all about self preservation and not about correct form.
The one and only time I was at the track, I could look all the way through the turn from just after tip in. This also makes it easier to suck it up when the tail starts to squirm and slip under acceleration for some reason....maybe a middle ear/sight of the horizon thing affecting balance.
I really do feel it is easier to do than getting my boots on the correct feet...lol.
Cheers
Mike
Hey Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to really think through your process of cornering and for giving us such a detailed explanation of what your eyes are doing.
I like that you mention that you do a quick "head check" into the turn to see if the exit is visible BEFORE you actually turn the bike. What a lot of people do is look and turn the bike at the very same time which doesn't really give them a lot of info about the turn.
If you were at the Superbike School though we would probably coach you to look into the turn, spot your apex point and then use your peripheral vision to keep track of the braking zone and where you want to turn the bike in (instead of looking back at the braking zone).
To clarify, we would have you approach the turn, figure out where you wanted to turn the bike, look into the apex and continue looking at where you wanted the bike to be in the middle of the turn while the bike was still going straight until you turned the bike. We call it the "two-step" It helps make your lines more consistent and it helps control your sense of speed.
Did that make sense?
I also watched your video and had a question for you. Do you think that you could be turning the bike with less effort that you are using now? Do your arms ever get tired? What is the exact method you use for getting the bike to turn?
OK, that was three questions....
Misti
...lol...but I'm a product of my environment. .
LOL...Ouch my head....More thinking.
It takes very little effort to tip in for a turn, and I just generally put a little pressure on the bar that goes low. Once lean angle is achieved then it's hold on with the legs and try not to input the bars unless you need to change line (eeew! messy) or slide a little (yay fun!). Sliding the body over helps with pushing the bars as well, but in Draggin' Jeans they tend to grip the seat and you'll see me having to lift myself up and over...lol....soooo much easier in my DriRiders or leathers.
Also the knee pointing out in the direction of the turn helps to not need to hang on with the arms and with pressing the bar forward, but you'll notice I've got my leg firmly tucked up next to the tank....lol...With Draggins on I try to keep my knee as far from the road as I can and even further from tree roots and cat's eyes...lol...Probably didn't need to in that vid as I was going quite casually. I have some pretty horrid arthritis in my hands so they get a little sore after a few hundred kays, but the arms can go all night like a lumberjack:rockon:.
Very few sore after affects for me at all really. I could quite happily have ridden home after 7, 15-20minute sessions at my track day, and you can bet I would've taken the long twisty way:cheer:...lol.
When I start to go harder I position my body a lot more over the bars for the extra weight and keep my chest closer to the bike as well to assist with drag.
For quick direction changes I lean over the front and push/pull the bars instead of just pushing and force the quick direction change...perfect for Lobie road (as long as the front is still on the ground). This is one of the advantages of being a strong nuggety type...lol....weight to keep the front down and strength to smoothly force the bike up and over the other way, while dragging myself across the seat. This is probably why I don't find the FZ1 any less flickable than the FZ6:Flash:.
I'm sure my track riding technique sucks
eg. The quick scan of the braking area and the eyes sliding through the desired route through the bend before looking through the turn, paid dividends the other night, as some cager had ploughed into the embankment and covered a particularly nice bend in gravel and dirt. Couldn't see the gravel and dirt round the bend, but I was already backed off and easing on the brakes before they came into view, whereas if I relied on peripheral to pick up the car's impact point I would've just discerned a lighter coloured patch of dirt in the wall and been right on top of the gravel before seeing it
The 'two step' explanation for the track sounds about right to me (not that I'd know any better anyway...lol.),and probably isn't that far off what I was doing really. At the track I need to work on my braking points more I think, but let's face it, one day at a small track with 41 other people on at the same time is not the best environment for consistent speeds so for the first part of the day my braking points were continually changing. Having said that not too many people get under 1:30 there, their first time out, even on litre bikes so 1:26's and maybe a 1:25 on a stock-as-a-rock FZ6 (even had the feelers on PMSL) isn't too disgraceful...lol...phew!
I'm with Wolfman in that I'd love to go to Phillip Island for a Superbike school sesh, but that may be a while as it's somewhat of an exercise in logistics.
It's pretty groovy to have an instructor on here asking these sorts of questions. Even if it gets folks thinking about how they do ride and nothing else, I'd say that's a win.:thumbup:
Cheers
Mike
What are some other benefits of turning a bike quickly? I'm hoping to ride that track one of these days as well. My hubby is from Down Under so we're trying to plan a visit!
I can't answer for the other members so here is my slant on looking through the turn.
Hi Mike,
I have a feeling that you would be able to turn the bike in even more effortlessly than you already feel like you are able to do and that the bike would feel even more flickable if you were able to bend your arms a bit so your elbows were pointing down (sitting back in the seat a little with help create more room so that you can create that bend). What that does is it allows you to press FORWARD on the bars instead of DOWN on the bars to initiate the steering. This will turn the bike MUCH quicker and with less effort that steering with arms straight and pressing down on the bars.
Mike, give this a try and see if you notice any difference. Just thought I would throw that suggestion out based on what I was seeing in the vid.
Cheers, and do get yourself out to Phillip Island for a school
Misti
, instead of the hoon who was doing 140+ just a second ago:rockon:...lol. I'll get some video of the 'D' road one day:rockon:.
Yup....that's pretty much what I do when I "get on it". More weight over the bars, chest closer to the tank.
One of the biggest reasons I don't do this on the road often is that, when a cop sees you he knows you're going hard...lol. For me I see a cop through the trees in the distance and stand the bike up and mash the brakes for a sec, then ease off. He's now seen me and starts to look and sees a fat old hairy bugga chugging up the Eagle
The 'D' road is one of the main places for it, as the speeds require you to get the head down on the tank anyhow.:thumbup:
And yes, it certainly does make a difference.
As for quick turn in benefits......I noticed on my track day that with the higher profile tires I slapped on for the day (Bt003/2) I tipped in faster. This in turn allows you to stay upright further into the turn, which means later braking. This means better lap times:cheer::rockon:
Cheers
Mike
But, for most riders, if they just bent their arms a bit and focussed on pushing the bars forward instead of down they would notice a big difference in their riding and they would still just look (and feel) like they were cruising on the road and not hauling it.Thanks Mike! I guess if you were in full tuck and hang off mode then the cops might know you were pushing it
Yes, some of the benefits to getting the bike turned quickly are that you feel more comfortable going deeper into the turn (because you are confident that you can turn fast and not run off the road) and that in turn means later braking.
But, probably the most important benefit of being able to turn the bike quickly (or quicker than a rider might already be turning) is that you end up using less lean angle over all. Riders that turn a bike slowly end up leaning over further in a turn for longer than a rider that gets it turned faster. Riders that lazy steer also have a much higher risk of running wide in a corner (which can be deadly on the street).
I wouldn't say that quick turning is an easy skill to master though. When you first practice quick turning it can feel very jerky and the bike can feel like it is just going to fall over. What steps can you take to ensure that your quick turning isn't going to lead to jerky, frantic and unstable riding?
Misti
