union

[wing8872]

At one time, unions were needed but today, I see them as nothing more than a way for a few people to live off of the union dues and engage in thuggish activities with the corporate management.

Most corporations that are unionized are also publicly traded. Want to control what the company does? Don't pay some thug to go talk to management, buy the corporate stock and own a piece of the company. You get to be your boss's boss that way and you get some of that money back as passive income which is taxed at a lower rate. Now, who doesn't like paying less taxes?

 

[luckyirishboy209]

Those are the good things that union labor accomplished. Many people forget that. But what I think people are trying to say is that in it's purest form Unions are socialist. Period. End of story. If you are a good worker, do a good job, make the company money... why should some dirt bag make the same amount? Because he is in the union too. Whats good for him is good for you? If the dirt bags out number the good productive employees and quality and costs go up, the company can do it else where for cheaper. Dirt bags or not.

There are many good benefits Unions have fought for. \\"Protecting a single individual slug\\" is a local matter. Not national. Health care, job security, contract negotiations, etc. is.

On the American Auto industry.... I hope and pray that the UAW and management can find a way to work together and make the company profitable again. i pay union dues but i also pay to own part of the union, and they find me work, give me a good money. if someone dosnt like how union members get all of these things then the should join. i get 100,000 dollars in free schooling a year. who wouldn't want that? get payed holidays over time, time 1/2,. they choice is yours! but my union is too strong to ever go under. and my union bank will never go under either, unlike most banks.

Ford, General Motors and Chrysler... Make cars people \\"actually\\" want at a quality level that is second to none, at a price that we the consumer can afford.

Maybe I look at it through different eyes. I do not care if a product is manufactured in a union shop. What matters most to me is QUALITY first. PRICE second. WHERE IT'S MADE is somewhere down further on the list. I won't buy something just because it's German, American, English. Then again I won't avoid the product if it isn't. I think in this day and age trying to buy only domestic product is impossible. No?

Look at air tools... If I can buy say an air ratchet at Wally World for lets say $25... Why go to Sears and spend $50 on the same thing? I could buy two at wally world... see what I'm saying?

Union vs. Non-Union.... Hate to say it but it's relevance is only open for discussion anymore.

In a third world country they are needed where the workers have no rights.

the thing is you can go to wally world a by a tool that is made cheep and will break. or you can go to sears and get something that will have good craftsmanship and last forever. union help donate to charity, clean the highways. the union makes sure all employees get treated the same and fairly. you don't get harassed, decremented. they drug test so you dont have some crack head operating a crane and killing all kinds of people. your get a retirement, the unions have more money to buy better equipment to make the job better quilty, and safer for everyone. i understand why people say they arnt needed any more, but i have done both union and none, with the union i have always been treated fair with my employers.

 

[luckyirishboy209]

According to Professor Harley Shaiken of the University of California-Berkeley,[1] unions are associated with higher productivity, lower employee turnover, improved workplace communication, and a better-trained workforce.

Prof. Shaiken is not alone. There is a substantial amount of academic literature on the following benefits of unions and unionization to employers and the economy:

* Productivity
* Competitiveness
* Product or service delivery and quality
* Training
* Turnover
* Solvency of the firm
* Workplace health and safety
* Economic development

Productivity

According to a recent survey of 73 independent studies on unions and productivity: “The available evidence points to a positive and statistically significant association between unions and productivity in the U.S. manufacturing and education sectors, of around 10 and 7 percent, respectively.”[2]

Some scholars have found an even larger positive relationship between unions and productivity. According to Brown and Medoff, “unionized establishments are about 22 percent more productive than those that are not.”[3]
Product/ Service Delivery and Quality

According to Professors Michael Ash and Jean Ann Seago,[4] heart attack recovery rates are higher in hospitals where nurses are unionized than in non-union hospitals.

Another study looked at the relationship between unionization and product quality in the auto industry.[5] According to a summary of this study prepared by American Rights at Work:

“The author examines the system of co-management created through the General Motors-United Auto Workers partnership at the Saturn Corporation…The author credits the union with building a dense communications network throughout Saturn's management system. Compared to non-represented advisors, union advisors showed greater levels of lateral communication and coordination, which had a significant positive impact on quality performance.”


Training

Several studies in have found a positive association between unionization and the amount and quality of workforce training. Unionized establishments are more likely to offer formal training.[6] This is especially true for small firms. There are a number of reasons for this: less turnover among union workers, making the employer more likely to offer training; collective bargaining agreements that require employers to provide training; and finally, unions often conduct their own training.
Turnover

Professor Shaiken also finds that unions reduce turnover. He cites Freeman and Medoff’s finding that “about one fifth of the union productivity effect stemmed from lower worker turnover. Unions improve communication channels giving workers the ability to improve their conditions short of ‘exiting.’”[7]
Solvency

Labor’s enemies assert that unions drive employers out of business, but academic research refutes this claim. According to Professors Richard Freeman and Morris Kleiner, unionism has a statistically insignificant effect (meaning no effect) on firm solvency.[8] Freeman and Kleiner conclude “unions do not, on average, drive firms or business lines out of business or produce high displacement rates for unionized workers.”
Workplace Health and Safety

Employers should be concerned about workplace health and safety as a matter of enlightened self-interest. According to an American Rights at Work summary of a study by John E. Baugher and J. Timmons Roberts:



“Only one factor effectively moves workers who are in subordinate positions to actively cope with hazards: membership in an independent labor union. These findings suggest that union growth could indirectly reduce job stress by giving workers the voice to cope effectively with job hazards.”[9]


Economic Development

Unions also play a positive role in economic development. One good example is the Wisconsin Regional Training Partnership, “an association of 125 employers and unions dedicated to family-supporting jobs in a competitive business environment. WRTP members have stabilized manufacturing employment in the Milwaukee metro area, and contributed about 6,000 additional industrial jobs to it over the past five years. Among member firms, productivity is way up--exceeding productivity growth in nonmember firms.

 

[FlyguyCFI]

I don't know much about unions outside of the aviation industry, but the union I am in has helped with a plethora of issues. It would have been horrible to deal with those same issues without some centralized voice for us.

Unions in aviation are ehre to stay. Especially for the pilots.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I don't know much about unions outside of the aviation industry, but the union I am in has helped with a plethora of issues. It would have been horrible to deal with those same issues without some centralized voice for us.

Unions in aviation are ehre to stay. Especially for the pilots.

I can still see union as beneficial in certain professions. Aviation is one of them, protecting pilots. There are no old, lazy, bad pilots for the union to protect here. Everyone has to perform at the same level, a very high one that is.

 

[sportrider]

I've been avoiding going into a rant over the "union" thing. out here the Teamsters Union Local 166 is a joke, the Operators Union UOE Local 12 still has some clout. when I was pre-union the BA was "selling" me on the 166 telling how great they are and what they could do for me, such as set wages according to a written contract, training for members that was covered out of your dues. someone to be a mediator in the event of a work place dispute, job security (within reason) by seniority. at first everything was good, according to our agreement, (I was a teamster Mechanic) if I was working in the shop I got paid production rates, if I had to go on a road call I would receive construction rates which were significantly higher. aside from the rate difference, according to the contract you would be paid for the highest rate you made: meaning if a truck breaks down and I work on it on the side of the road for 2 hours then work in the shop for the remaining 6 hours I would receive "construction" wages all day. which was the difference of about $120 a day take home. this is the way it was and I was paid like this for the first few months I worked there. then things started to change. I always log my hours and rates so I knew what my checks would be. I was shorted over $500.00 on a check and went to payroll to have it corrected. they informed me that they had never paid construction wages for the shop but if they did it would only apply to the time I was on the road. I talked to the shop Steward about it and he didn't want to get involved so I called my BA. he came out and met with the shop manager and then came walking up to me saying "I got this straightened out for you" then went on to inform me of the "new" way they were going to pay us. from here out we would only get construction pay for the time we were out on the road call. (ok right here he has broken our contract) so time goes by and the payroll incident happens again. this time the "new" way they are going to pay us is, we only get construction if the piece of equipment is attached to the job site. material trucks and low beds no longer count so with exception to tack trucks water trucks are the only thing that would pay the higher rates. I called the BA and asked him to explain to me how he was able to negotiate a change to our contract without a vote on it. he told me that the company I work for was one of the Halls largest customers and he wanted to take care of them and it would be better if I didn't rock the boat. "customers" "rock the boat" WTF!!! I told him that you work for me not the "company" why the hell am I paying dues if you won't even enforce a contract that we already have, I'm not asking you to do anything new, just your job.

now to clarify here; I'm not a Lazy POS, I showed up to work early and did my job.

so despite being pissed off about the way things were going I still went to work. here's where the union failed me completely. the shop manager hired his son to work in the shop on my shift. his kid was a lazy POS he was never on time and he used to log repairs and service he never actually did. so one day everything came to a head. a new pony motor (the engine that drives a water pump on a water truck) that had been installed a month earlier blew up on a job site. we were called into the office by the shop manager, he was pissed and tried to blame us. we tear into the motor to find out what happened only to notice it had not been serviced since installation. and there was nearly no oil in it. I walked over to the service desk and got the log book. the shop managers son had logged that he had serviced the engine twice the last one being last night. I asked the manager how this motor had been serviced seeing how it still had the OEM filter on it and not the Waxie brand filter that the shop uses. he got pissed and told me to mind my own F-ing business. and told the whole crew to get out of the office. I was laid off a week later with the reason "lack of work" I called the BA to file a grievance against the company for wrongful termination he told me he wouldn't do it and I told you not to rock the boat. so even though I had seniority over this guys son. it meant nothing.

where I work now the Union tried to petition us to join, I told them to Get F-ed and get out of the yard.

they did nothing for me, every guy I worked with in that other shop that was "old school" union has since been fired. so the union did nothing for them either. and they didn't rock the boat.

 

[damnpoor]

I have never been part of a big industrial union like steel workers or something. I was part of a union at my federal job. It was great because it gave myself and others the courage to tell the boss when something was screwed up. In government jobs there are very clear lines between workers, supervisors, and managers. The union allows the workers to voice concerns to the managers without fear of retribution. It was very different from the type of union you see in movies. They provide mediators and backup when your boss tries to get revenge and that was it. They do not force you to pay fees, sit through meetings, or adhere to rules you didn't vote for.

I worked at a fabrication job that did not have a union. It was fine. They were all cool people, we were mostly buddies, and I could talk to the boss casually without worries.

 

[poorwboy]

:scaredanny's pist off.