Throttle Lopes At Certain Position

[Zealot]

Heya folks. Noticed an issue recently where if my throttle is at a certain position while riding the exhaust sound gets really sputtery and choppy, and I end up losing speed (RPMs get 'stuck' and slowly decrease) unless I let off a bit or increase it. There seems to be a discernible dead zone in every gear based on said throttle position, maybe somewhere in the 30-40% open range. This took place prior to my PC3 install, so I don't think it's related to my map.

Is this the dreaded TPS issue? On an 08 S2 with 18,000km and have done a bunch of things as far as maintenance is concerned to help the bike run better. This issue has been bothering me because it makes maintaining 120kmh on the highway a bit of a chore since if I move a tiny bit past the threshold, I lose power to a degree, and if I go past it I will speed up toward the point where I'd risk being pulled over. Bike seems to run fine and pull hard otherwise, only thrown off by what appears to be the position of the throttle. Sputtering is apparent while accelerating hard too, as the throttle passes the problem spot.

 

[Motogiro]

That does sound like a TPS issue. Especially if it's only at a specific physical position of the throttle regardless of RPM or gear/load.

You can put your readout in diagnostic mode and see if there is an anomaly. The TPS reading should be between 16 to 100 without any numbers skipping. You do this with the motor off. There are cases where the TPS will show good on the readout but is still bad because of noise that it creates that the ECU/ECM will interpret as a signal and spits out the wrong fuel injection pulse.

I moved the thread for you

 

[Zealot]

That does sound like a TPS issue. Especially if it's only at a specific physical position of the throttle regardless of RPM or gear/load.

You can put your readout in diagnostic mode and see if there is an anomaly. The TPS reading should be between 16 to 100 without any numbers skipping. You do this with the motor off. There are cases where the TPS will show good on the readout but is still bad because of noise that it creates that the ECU/ECM will interpret as a signal and spits out the wrong fuel injection pulse.

I moved the thread for you

Thanks for moving the thread!

Just read the one line:

RPM Drop while acclerating or trying to maintain a constand speed.

That would be it.

I know how to get to diagnostic mode, but I can't get into it due to having an S2 bike. Pretty sure I'll have to ground that one wire in order to access it, right? If I got in touch with a local Yamaha dealership, would I be able to get this fixed/replaced (hopefully for free)? This might explain all my issues with the rough and lopey idle, in hindsight. Wish I'd have noticed/paid attention to it sooner.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

The tps issue was fixed before the S2 model came out, so this sounds like it would be on you to cover it if the tps is indeed bad. I would start by testing, and then check the connections to make sure nothing is loose. Then if it's still a problem, take it to the dealer.

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[Zealot]

The tps issue was fixed before the S2 model came out

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. Damn.

Looks like I'm going to be picking up some wire and trying to ground that stupid connector. Based on the symptom I described while riding, and the inconsistent idle - I'm thinking it's likely the TPS. Broken hoses (vacuum leak) crossed my mind but my bike has had a successful TB sync and the likes without any problems - and I feel like that would be something that is ultimately irrelevant when you accelerate due to the butterfly valves (I think that's what they're called) taking over as you twist the throttle.

 

[Motogiro]

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. Damn.

Looks like I'm going to be picking up some wire and trying to ground that stupid connector. Based on the symptom I described while riding, and the inconsistent idle - I'm thinking it's likely the TPS. Broken hoses (vacuum leak) crossed my mind but my bike has had a successful TB sync and the likes without any problems - and I feel like that would be something that is ultimately irrelevant when you accelerate due to the butterfly valves (I think that's what they're called) taking over as you twist the throttle.

You should be able to put your instrument cluster into Diagnostic mode and choose the TPS to look at the TPS values. Lemme do a quick search.... Here: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...talls.html?highlight=Throttle+position+sensor

 

[Zealot]

You should be able to put your instrument cluster into Diagnostic mode and choose the TPS to look at the TPS values. Lemme do a quick search.... Here: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...talls.html?highlight=Throttle+position+sensor

Negatory. Tried - S2 model over here, so I think I've gotta ground a wire. Just sits on d1 and nothing else happens/comes up. (Which is so, absolutely, positively stupid)

 

[Motogiro]

Negatory. Tried - S2 model over here, so I think I've gotta ground a wire. (Which is so, absolutely, positively stupid)

Do you think unplugging the connector which has the blank pin would work?

Here's a video. It's in spanish but it's an S-2 and he puts it in diagnostic mode and tests the TPS.. I can't imagine why the S-2 would not have the diagnostic mode....
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7HlvqaVAsA[/ame]

 

[ChanceCoats123]

+1, when I first used diagnostic mode on my S1, it was hard to get the displayed setting to change. Turned out it was user error and not a problem with the bike. Just try getting in diagnostic mode multiple times and try different button presses if one combination is not working.

If you can get into diagnostic mode at all, then you can get to all the settings.

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[Zealot]

Here's a video. It's in spanish but it's an S-2 and he puts it in diagnostic mode and tests the TPS.. I can't imagine why the S-2 would not have the diagnostic mode....
YouTube

Based Spaniards! (Didn't realize I had to hold them again to enable stuff... Hmm)

Went through and gave the throttle a really slow twist, counting every number along the way. In the end, I went from a closed 16 to an open 102, which would be out of spec based on what you said.

Question is: What does this mean for me, exactly? According to the official TPS thread - it oughta be replaced.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I believe my tps reads over 100 at wot as well. That's not really a huge issue. What's more important is that you saw all of the values on the way up which means there is no tps "deadzone". In other words, it doesn't seem like it's the tps.

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[Zealot]

I believe my tps reads over 100 at wot as well. That's not really a huge issue. What's more important is that you saw all of the values on the way up which means there is no tps "deadzone". In other words, it doesn't seem like it's the tps.

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Moto said that while the readings might be okay, sometimes there is another issue. I went out on a test ride and with every gear I could get the sputtering - all at different RPM ranges, but the same throttle position. It's gotta be something related to it... I just don't know what, exactly, past guessing at the TPS. Physical throttle operation is more smooth and better than ever since taking apart the whole housing and the grip. Cables are actually lubricated now, and the crunchy rusty mess that was beneath the throttle grip is gone, making way for shiny smooth metal and an application of grease! I'd thought maybe something was snagging, but I don't think so.

Looks like I might have to stop by one of the local Yammy dealerships soon.

 

[FinalImpact]

How about throw a zero map on FC and/or disconect the injectors from the FC and connect them directly to the ECU.

IIRC you had an FZ6R map in there and then another. I know you said it was there before, but it needs to be eliminated as the source of the issue.

8 - 10 seconds of both buttons down after the key is switched and you do not need a wire to get into diag mode.

 

[FinalImpact]

This is JM2C but you have like 5+ threads all dealing with some form of driveability complaint. Keeping them together gives us a complete dialogue of actions taken. Perhaps list all the Thread links here as its likely some of this overlaps.

 

[Zealot]

How about throw a zero map on FC and/or disconect the injectors from the FC and connect them directly to the ECU.

IIRC you had an FZ6R map in there and then another. I know you said it was there before, but it needs to be eliminated as the source of the issue.

8 - 10 seconds of both buttons down after the key is switched and you do not need a wire to get into diag mode.

Got diagnostic mode and counted every number from 16 up, stopping at 102 (which is slightly outside of spec - not sure what that means exactly). Problem existed before the installation of an FC. Never really paid it much attention though. I most certainly didn't have a 6R map ! The only maps I've got in my possession here are from Motogiro and Hellgate. I recall somebody else running the wrong maps though just a little while ago.

This is JM2C but you have like 5+ threads all dealing with some form of driveability complaint. Keeping them together gives us a complete dialogue of actions taken. Perhaps list all the Thread links here as its likely some of this overlaps.

I've done a TB sync, turned those in half a turn to richen the mixture, and installed a PC3 unit whilst taking out the O2 sensor. Was hoping to mess with CO values but hadn't gotten to it yet, and felt that I might not have the need due to the PC3. Additionally, I've installed baffles for my TB slip ons and noted that covering the exhaust with one hand smooths out my rough idle. I'd make one big mega thread, but I feel like it's more likely to be ignored. I'll gladly combine/link to everything else in a separate thread though to document what's been happening, however.

Not sure how to smooth out rough cruising at a certain throttle position, however. Straight from the TPS issue thread, this is exactly what happens:

RPM Drop while acclerating or trying to maintain a constand speed.

Bike starts sputtering and losing power unless I either back off a tad (thus sitting at a lower speed) or turn the throttle and go faster than I'd like.

 

[Zealot]

Unless anyone can think of something else it might be, or things worth checking... I think I'll have to have it investigated by a dealership.

 

[FinalImpact]

Just to be certain; by-pass the FC. You do NOT have to disconnect everything but that would be the best choice. You can simply reconnect the ecu to the injectors and hit the highway. Leave every thing else connected. If the map is Fat rich at that condition it could cause this surge. Can you load a Zero map? That is the easy solution.

Im not saying its not the TPS, but its $$$$ out of your pocket if it doesnt fix it.

This; "Sputtering is apparent while accelerating hard too, as the throttle passes the problem spot." Sounds like a map issue. But, if there all along, well, uou judge if its worth doing the test. I say this as i think you also said, you could hardly notice it before... So idk....

 

[Motogiro]

Doesn't the fuel controller reside inline with the TPS? If so I would take it completely out of line. Even though the OP says it existed before I would like to see it tested without fuel management to be sure.
I've said it many times, the TPS can pass the diagnostic test and the resistance test but still be bad because an area of the wiper to resistor makes noise. Hmmm anyone for optical?

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[FinalImpact]

^^
Yep... Its a Y cable... Feeding off the TPS.

As for the upper ### being over 100, the % of error at WOT vs critical operations at idle, its better to have the idle number in spec than the WOT #.

Also, did you set those values for the FC? It cares! Bit again, mainly at idle. WOT is far less critical.

 

[Zealot]

Alright, well, I threw in a zero map and let the bike discharge for a bit, then took it out for a spin. Issue seems partly resolved, although it's awfully sputtery and still a bit finicky around that certain position. Less so than before, mind you, and it leads me to believe that I might just need a proper dyno tune in order to work out the little hiccups here and there that the TB pipes are causing.