Rubber brake lines need replacing?

[outasight20]

So my bike has the original rubber brake lines from 2005. 27K miles on the odometer. I've replaced the brake fluid and bled the system in the last year. The brakes are strong and I don't think there is any air in the system. However yesterday I rode my Dad's 2009 Ninja 500R with under 10K miles on it and his front brake lever feels noticeably firmer. There is a point where you can't really pull it any more. On my bike, I can keep pulling and almost touch the handlebar (albeit my adjustable levers are set to the closest position to the handlebar). Now, the performance of the front brakes is still excellent. The Ninja 500 brakes in comparison feel weak, however the lever is much more firm. I routinely practice emergency stops from 60+ MPH on backroads and I can stop very quickly. I do this a lot, so my brakes get a serious workout quite often.

I guess what I'm getting at is, have my rubber lines stretched to the point that they now expand too much under hard braking? Should I first try replacing the brake fluid and bleeding the system again, or is it time for some SS brake lines?

 

[yamihoe]

the dial with 5 numbers on it has alot to do with the feel of my brakes...5 is the softest feel and 1 is the most "touch it and the nose tries to go into the ground" feel.
my brakes feel fine and they are still the rubber lines from 2005....i am still looking at ss lines tho

 

[outasight20]

I have aftermarket (the2wheels) levers. The adjustment does not actually have any effect on the feel. All it does it move the lever toward or away from the handlebar. You might think that it affects the feel because you are using a different range of motion in your hand. Like I said the brakes still feel fine, they are just more squishy than I'd like.

 

[Xavias]

I have the 2wheels levers as well. My lines are from '08, but have 28000 ish miles on them. They don't feel squishy at all, really. When I put the 2wheels levers on, though, it made them actually feel tighter and more responsive... Weird.

 

[SmokeEater37]

Another 2008 here as well. Have 2wheels levers and just had Galfers stainless steel lines installed and I feel a world of difference in my brakes front and rear. Quite happy with them, would make the switch again.

 

[dpaul007]

I think the only way to get the "feel" that you want would be to upgrade your lines.

 

[Karate.Snoopy]

I replaced my brake lines last year with the HEL SS lines, they look sweeeet.
Braking seems awesome as well, feel like I could do a stoppie with no effort, Matter of fact I think I pulled one the other day at the Lyman/Rt 9 intersection (rusty rider syndrome)

If you want to take a look and check out the SS lines you are welcome to come try my bike located just a few miles east of Woohstah

 

[trepetti]

I'd use 'Water Heater' philosophy on this.... you can either replace them before they fail or after..

I have an 05 and while I think the 4-year expected life from rubber brake lines is largely driven by the legal department (and perhaps a little input from the parts group), I just replaced my perfectly good rubber lines with Galfer SS and I am happy I did. Replace yours and you can focus on more important things in life.

...now, about that 2-year caliper rebuild interval...

 

[outasight20]

I like that "water heater" philosphy. I'll add SS lines and a caliper rebuild to my list of Summer mods.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Even with the rubber lines as old as they are, you shouldn't be able to pull that lever to the bar.. I strongly suspect you have air in the system and its compressing leaving you a spongy lever. I know you said you bleed them but there may be air in the loop over the fender.


+1 on the SS braided lines, definitly worth the investment.

They will certainly make the feel MUCH firmer and you won't have to pull as far as there's really no give vs the rubber lines... With my stock lever, set on 3 (in the middle), I can lock up the front wheel with less than half the distance to the bar..


You have the option of going with two separate lines from each caliper to the master cylinder or a similar set up as the stock loop over style.

IMHO, go with the two separate lines, its considerably easier to bleed and no chance of getting air in the middle of that loop...

 

[outasight20]

Well I have my 2wheels levers set to the closest position to the bars. It's about an inch and a half from the bar. And to get it to touch the bar, I have to pull VERY hard. Even under emergency braking conditions, the lever doesn't hit the grip. But when stopped, I can forcefully pull it to the bar. Interesting about the loop over the fender... I will probably do the two separate lines wen I upgrade...

 

[darius]

Well I have my 2wheels levers set to the closest position to the bars. It's about an inch and a half from the bar. And to get it to touch the bar, I have to pull VERY hard. Even under emergency braking conditions, the lever doesn't hit the grip. But when stopped, I can forcefully pull it to the bar. Interesting about the loop over the fender... I will probably do the two separate lines wen I upgrade...

My brakes are way overdue for new fluid. Doing it tonight! They were dead firm last year when I got the bike.

Maybe you don't have air, it could just be moisture attracted into the lines since the last change. If you didn't use brake fluid from a new sealed container, it would have had some moisture content already.

Sounds like you should really replace the fluid sooner anyway but you could try another lever setting for more firmness compared to the other bike. The closer in the lever is, the softer the brake feels to me.

 

[outasight20]

My brakes are way overdue for new fluid. Doing it tonight! They were dead firm last year when I got the bike.

Maybe you don't have air, it could just be moisture attracted into the lines since the last change. If you didn't use brake fluid from a new sealed container, it would have had some moisture content already.

Sounds like you should really replace the fluid sooner anyway but you could try another lever setting for more firmness compared to the other bike. The closer in the lever is, the softer the brake feels to me.

I think that is because the closer your lever is to the bar, the more strength you have in your fingers/forearm.

 

[fb40dash5]

I'd use 'Water Heater' philosophy on this.... you can either replace them before they fail or after..

I have an 05 and while I think the 4-year expected life from rubber brake lines is largely driven by the legal department (and perhaps a little input from the parts group), I just replaced my perfectly good rubber lines with Galfer SS and I am happy I did. Replace yours and you can focus on more important things in life.

...now, about that 2-year caliper rebuild interval...

I'm with this guy. Your lines aren't likely to fail anytime in the near future, unless they're already rotting out or damaged by something.

But, I literally just installed a set of braided lines on mine before heading home from work. I'm freakin' floored by the difference, it's insane how firm the lever is now.

It's possible you've got a bubble in there somewhere, but it's equally possible you don't. There's a ton of give in those lines, I could do the same thing with mine before if I had the lever that close. Even if the lines aren't going to fail, if you've got it in your head you want to replace them, and they're not performing how you like, you've got nothing (except $1-200) to lose upgrading. :BLAA:

 

[PosterFZ6]

So my bike has the original rubber brake lines from 2005. 27K miles on the odometer. I've replaced the brake fluid and bled the system in the last year. The brakes are strong and I don't think there is any air in the system. However yesterday I rode my Dad's 2009 Ninja 500R with under 10K miles on it and his front brake lever feels noticeably firmer. There is a point where you can't really pull it any more. On my bike, I can keep pulling and almost touch the handlebar (albeit my adjustable levers are set to the closest position to the handlebar). Now, the performance of the front brakes is still excellent. The Ninja 500 brakes in comparison feel weak, however the lever is much more firm. I routinely practice emergency stops from 60+ MPH on backroads and I can stop very quickly. I do this a lot, so my brakes get a serious workout quite often.

I guess what I'm getting at is, have my rubber lines stretched to the point that they now expand too much under hard braking? Should I first try replacing the brake fluid and bleeding the system again, or is it time for some SS brake lines?

I restored a 1978 Honda CB400, the brake hoses were fine so I just used them.

Do I honestly think that you have to replace your brake hoses every 2/3 years?

I don't think so. But inspect them if they have any cracks or if the rubber starts getting "bloated".

 

[darius]

I think that is because the closer your lever is to the bar, the more strength you have in your fingers/forearm.

Just did my front brakes only. Old stuff was yellow and the new was clear.

Unfortunately I reused old tubing that was cloudy making it impossible to see when the old fluid had cleared so I ended up going through the whole small bottle.

Lever feels a heck of a lot firmer. I can still pull it to the grip but it's quite a workout at 5-6 settings (2wheels levers.) No test ride yet.

I wonder if SS lines would take out the mush that I still feel at the lever. I assume that's the rubber hoses expanding.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just did my front brakes only. Old stuff was yellow and the new was clear.

Unfortunately I reused old tubing that was cloudy making it impossible to see when the old fluid had cleared so I ended up going through the whole small bottle.

Lever feels a heck of a lot firmer. I can still pull it to the grip but it's quite a workout at 5-6 settings (2wheels levers.) No test ride yet.

I wonder if SS lines would take out the mush that I still feel at the lever. I assume that's the rubber hoses expanding.

It would indeed take the mush out of the lever, as long as all the air's out of the system.. You might use HALF the (I use about 1/3) travel fully available (to the bar).

 

[carbonar1]

I just replaced my 05 FZ6 brake lines with HEL braided lines today. It made a huge difference! There is about 10mm of movement in the lever, compared to about 50mm before. The lever is firm and there's loads more feel. The bite is still lacking though...I might have to look into different pads.

I filled the new lines with a syringe and a tube from the caliper bleed nipple. This pushes all the air out of the lines and into the reservoir. It took 5 minutes from empty lines to hard lever with no bubbles. :thumbup:

 

[powpow2pavement]

Agreed with all who have suggested replacing your fluid. With 27k on the bike, the fluid needs to be replaced. I think a lot of folks who have attributed the new brake lines as solving the problem are forgetting that.... if you upgraded your lines you obviously replaced your fluid too

Upgrading your lines is also a good idea as the stainless will not tear and is much less likely to burst. Definitely worth the $$. Just remember that you will eventually get a mushy lever, even with stainless lines, if you don't flush your brake fluid regularly.

 

[FrozenBiker]

I restored a 1978 Honda CB400, the brake hoses were fine so I just used them.

Do I honestly think that you have to replace your brake hoses every 2/3 years?

I don't think so. But inspect them if they have any cracks or if the rubber starts getting "bloated".

My Nighthawk was bought new in '86 (leftover), and died in '99 with the original lines. 145,000 miles on them, no cracks in the rubber at all.

By the way - were are the pix of your CB400 ??