Rider Skill Development

[krushnuts]

Doooods,

I did an advanced road craft course last year (at Mt Cotton) and found it really useful for learning/developing techniques for cornering & braking. I'm considering going back and doing it again it was so good.

Anyone have any experiences with other forms of rider training? I'd love to skill up enough to get onto a race track and have a fang one of these days!

Was talking about this to some of the guys at the last brizz fizz meet, would yas be interested in going to one of these training days together, perhaps if we had the numbers they would give us a discount?

Cheers,kman

 

[ozzieboy]

Doooods,

I did an advanced road craft course last year (at Mt Cotton) and found it really useful for learning/developing techniques for cornering & braking. I'm considering going back and doing it again it was so good.

Anyone have any experiences with other forms of rider training? I'd love to skill up enough to get onto a race track and have a fang one of these days!

Was talking about this to some of the guys at the last brizz fizz meet, would yas be interested in going to one of these training days together, perhaps if we had the numbers they would give us a discount?

Cheers,kman

That sounds great mate. I can't as I'm in S.A. but it still sounds great:thumbup:...lol.

We don't really seem to any advanced rider training, as such. We have the rider safe course and that's it as far as I've been able to see.

I'd be interested in hearing a bit more about it though:thumbup:.

Cheers
Mike

 

[buzzbomb]

That sounds great mate. I can't as I'm in S.A. but it still sounds great:thumbup:...lol.

We don't really seem to any advanced rider training, as such. We have the rider safe course and that's it as far as I've been able to see.

I'd be interested in hearing a bit more about it though:thumbup:.

Cheers
Mike

I'm in the same boat, I'd love to get stuck into some advanced training, but being from country SA it's hard to organise a trip to Adelaide at the right time. Stay Upright does a couple of courses, aparently, according to their website:

Stay Upright Motorcycle Techniques :: Rider Training in South Australia

I need more practice as it is...I'm getting a bit rusty, but managed a ride this arvo, which was great, but reminded me I need to have a go at throttle syncing...tomorrow I'm off to buy some parts to make a manometer...

BB

 

[krushnuts]

I'm in the same boat, I'd love to get stuck into some advanced training, but being from country SA it's hard to organise a trip to Adelaide at the right time. Stay Upright does a couple of courses, aparently, according to their website:

Stay Upright Motorcycle Techniques :: Rider Training in South Australia

I need more practice as it is...I'm getting a bit rusty, but managed a ride this arvo, which was great, but reminded me I need to have a go at throttle syncing...tomorrow I'm off to buy some parts to make a manometer...

BB

The one I did last year (which is offered free by Team Moto when you perchase a bike from them) consisted of 1/2 a day turning (slaloms and the like) & sudden/high speed stopping techniques - both within a bare bitumen with witches hats setup etc... Followed by lunch and refreshments.

In the afternoon our class of around 20 was split into two groups (fast/slow) and taken to the track. We walked around the track and the different corners were explained (double apex, hair-pin, etc) their approach vectors, markers for breaking and so forth. Also how to sit off the side of the bike, agressive vs normal cornering. Once I had done a few laps (each group had 10 mins on the track before swapping) I had scraped my pegs for the first time and was keeping up with the litre bikes!! Very fun!

I have had a looksie at the stayupright program it looks very comprehensive with the advanced I, II & III courses. Other companies offer courses for 'racecraft' as well... Perhaps I'll start off with some kind of advanced 'roadcraft' first and see how I go. The stayupright consists of a 2 hour discourse on the evening of day 1. Day 2 is full day of tuition on the Mt Cotton track. I spoke to the guy from stayupright and he explained this to me, sounded a lot like the one I did through team moto. Of course he was selling his course to me, explaining that it's a full day on the track, not 1/2.

Will keep pokin my nose around and see what comes up.

Let me know your experiences with training, did it help? Did you go on to race track days with or w/o training? How was it on the track 1st time? Did you do any track/race training before hand? I'm bursting with anticipation every time I think about it, although I know it's going to take a while to skill up and save up for all the gear (just leather pants to go).

Cheers,
kman.

 

[belton]

Hi, I'm in Monterey California right now. Spent the afternoon at Laguna Seca raceway with the club bike riders as organized by Z2 - website Z² Home - I was hanging out and not riding but sure would have liked to ride today and would definately ride with this group if I lived in this area.

Z2 organizes 24 2-day events throughout the year and the weekend costs something like for $290 with instruction for novices and on up. There were FZ1's, R1's, R6's, Ducatis and a Kawai or two. One of the good riders was on a Kawasaki 250!

Tomorrow (Monday) and Tuesday I'll be doing the Keith Code 2-day course where they provide a Kawasaki 600, all the gear, food, instruction, video, etc. We'll see how that works out.

later, gerry b.

 

[Humperdinkel]

I'd be interested in joining you mate , Darryl (ninja) would be there to i think :thumbup:...

 

[Stimson]

...don't forget about me.

 

[krushnuts]

...don't forget about me.

Nice, I spoke to Stay Upright and there are only a few places left on their next "Advanced I Skills Development Course" on the 21st, which isn't a great date for me, the missus and I have a prior engagement (step parenting course).

The course following that is on April 10th, which is a Friday... Rules that one out! After that there's one on Saturday, May 16th. 11 weeks away...

The dude I spoke to said he would give us a bit of a discount if 5 of us enrolled too.

There are other places that hold similar courses. I'll have a bit more of a dig around and see what I can find.

btw, looking forward to Sunday! Big party on Saturday night, which I'm being the designated driver for, so I'm sharp and fresh for Sunday :rockon:

 

[ozzieboy]

That sounds great:rockon:. Thanks Krushnuts for the info:thumbup:. I still haven't checked out the stay upright link but I'll get round to it eventually:spank:, and thanks Buzzbomb for posting i:thumbup:t. I've been having a half hearted poke around for some advanced training courses but didn't think we had any.

Off to check that link...lol.

Cheers
Mike

 

[krushnuts]

...Tomorrow (Monday) and Tuesday I'll be doing the Keith Code 2-day course where they provide a Kawasaki 600...

Yeah, I'd like to do something like this. I've been reading Keiths book "A twist of the wrist", but it's fairly conceptual until you get to put things into action. I'm sure this hand-book will change the way I ride... eventually! The Australian Superbike School has training that follows the Kieth Code training guidlines, but they only hold courses at Eastern Creek in Sydney and Phillip Island down in Mexico, ah-hem, I mean Victoria.

I am interested to find out how your training days go belton, I may consider riding down to Sydney to attend one at Eastern Creek. That will be a while off though.

There's a few more options for Brisbane riders (Top Rider, is one), but I'm not convinced they are as good as the stayupright ones.

Still keen to find something in Brisbane and in the *near* future. It's looking like the course at stayupright on the 16th of May could be the one. Unless I find something of similar quality sooner.

Be great to have a bit of a FZ6-Forum possie, cheers Humps & Stimson.

Laters,
Krishna.

 

[belton]

End of Day one of the two day Keith Code Superbike School here at Laguna Seca.

The school is well set up. We have a pit crew for any repairs, good Kawasaki 600 Ninjas, we have Wranglers who help us for anything at our request, a truck with riding gear for our use, and food all during the day to keep us powered up.

No one else wanted to ride the "Brake Bike" at the time, so I rode it for about 15 minutes in the pouring rain. The bike has outriggers on it so that when you lock up the front tire if you skid and fall, you fall on the outriggers so there is no downside - that is a great tool. The deal is that you get to 35 mph, lock up the front tire, then modulate the pressure down so that you still get maximum braking but without the skidding. I was purposefully stopping in a 7" deep pond of water and there was no difference doing that then the other wet areas. When locking up in the wet, the front end would skid a bit and the bike would move slightly to the side, but it was very controllable. The important part is to keep the arms relaxed but hold your lower torso in position by locking your knees into the gas tank.

It was pouring rain from 7 am to 2 pm, then at 2 the sun came out and the track dried up. Riding in the rain was cold but great - the traction on the corners was far, far better than I thought possible, and we're not using tires that are overly special - Dunlops - will check the model tomorrow.

First ride was a 20 minute deal, we rode in 4th gear only, no brakes and only using the engine to slow before corners, and my track instructor would sometimes ride ahead and sometimes behind me watching.

First class was with Keith Code, topic was throttle control. Enter a corner, lean the bike, and apply throttle to overcome the slowing by friction of the tires. Supposedly a lot of bike accidents happen because a rider enters a corner, rolls on the throttle, then rolls off the throttle for whatever reason which destabilizes the bike, and the bike goes out of control. Keith said that when you are riding on the road and you enter a corner, lean the bike, roll on the throttle, then you come through the corner and see sand or gravel on the road, that you are more likely to ride through the problem with a steady hand on the throttle rather than rolling off the throttle and transferring the weights on the bike and destabilizing it.

Second ride was using throttle control on the track - and again the track instructor would be there.

Second class with Keith was turning points - picking the right point to enter the corner. Supposedly most all bike accidents are on the exit to the corners because the rider chose an entry point too early and ran out of corner on the other side.

Third ride was turning points, and using the traffic cones that were set up at each turn. Again we had our track instructor. 3rd and 4th gears and light front brakes.

Third class was with Keith and was on quick turning - getting the bike into a lean fast.

Forth ride was using the above. 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear and light brakes.

Forth class was with another instructor and was on rider input - relaxing on the bars and not forcing the bars.

Fifth ride was the above drill. 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear and light brakes.

Fifth class was on two-step turning - look where you want to enter the turn, turn, lean, apply the throttle, skim the apex, exit, and onwards.

Sixth ride was the above drill.

So that makes 2 hours of track time today. Lots of the guys had sore necks and backs, but I'd been doing yoga for the last month in anticipation of these two days and had also stretched earlier in the morning and felt fine.

You could ride as fast or slow as you liked. Slower in the corners was better and helped to build up the speed for later. My best guess is that I was two to three times faster in the corners at the end of the day then at the beginning. On the straights you could do whatever you wanted to do and I was riding 8,000 rpm in 4th, which I think is about 100 mph or so.

The pussy thing for me though was that the track would be soaked, its raining, I'm entering the corner, rolling on the throttle, apexing, coming out of the corner nice and clean and thinking that I'm a grand rider, and the Advanced riders who were working on their own drills would pass me in a corner off the best line with their bodies somewhat upright and their left hands on their hips!!!!!!

Let's see - $2,000 for two days, or $1,000 so far for today - is it worth it??

Gerry Belton

 

[Humperdinkel]

Awesome review Gerry thanks :thumbup: , as for the price they are charging well yes it is very pricey , ours are nowhere near as expensive as that but at the end of the day if it saves your life just once i think it makes it fantastic value :thumbup:....Looking forward to tomorrows lesson review ....Cheers Daniel....Ohh and :welcome: to the forum buddy , stay safe , ride lots and post often

 

[Humperdinkel]

Nice, I spoke to Stay Upright and there are only a few places left on their next "Advanced I Skills Development Course" on the 21st, which isn't a great date for me, the missus and I have a prior engagement (step parenting course).

The course following that is on April 10th, which is a Friday... Rules that one out! After that there's one on Saturday, May 16th. 11 weeks away...

The dude I spoke to said he would give us a bit of a discount if 5 of us enrolled too.

There are other places that hold similar courses. I'll have a bit more of a dig around and see what I can find.

btw, looking forward to Sunday! Big party on Saturday night, which I'm being the designated driver for, so I'm sharp and fresh for Sunday :rockon:

Im sure we could muster 5 up easily :thumbup:.....16th of may sort of suits me even though it is so far away , im fairly busy in the coming months because of up coming weddings....And a few birthdays in sydney aswell...Spoke to Darryl today and he would definately join us......

 

[krushnuts]

End of Day one of the two day Keith Code Superbike School here at Laguna Seca.

...

Leguna Seca, far out! My memories of that track revolve around hours upon hours of playing Gran Tourismo on my PS2. I'm a bit jealous mate!

Agree, great review Gerry :thumbup: It's so good that you guys get to have the personal tuition of Kieth Code him self. I really get his aproach, from what I've read in "A Twist Of the Wrist", learning to spend your $10 worth of attention where you need and actually keeping a mental record of EVERYTHING you are doing is the toughest thing. Kieths tuition, Bike provided, gear provided, food/drink provided - your own pit crew!?!:drool: No wonder it's 2 grand, but like Dan says, it's worth every cent if it saves you some gravel rash, let alone something broken.

The courses I've found here are no where near as well catered for (byo bike, gear, food) and they don't go for two days, but they are a lot more affordable, around $350-$400 per day depending on where it's held. For example, Queensland raceway will set you back around $60 more than the circuit at Mt Cotton.

I'm very interested in the performance of the bike in wet conditions, the training offered here goes ahead rain or shine, although for my sesh last year it was fine weather. The instructor mentioned that we would actually get more out of it in the wet! I'd agree, would much rather test the limits of my steed in a controlled situation than find out riding home from work.

Dan, May 16th is good for me too, I'm just an impatient bastard who wants to do it noooow lol I'll contact the school and see if we need to book in as a group or just individuals and what kind of discount he's prepaird to offer us.

cheers,
k.

 

[Humperdinkel]

Dan, May 16th is good for me too, I'm just an impatient bastard who wants to do it noooow lol I'll contact the school and see if we need to book in as a group or just individuals and what kind of discount he's prepaird to offer us.

cheers,
k.

LOL , ive got a set of bolt cutters if you really want to do it noooow :thumbup:.....

 

[krushnuts]

LOL , ive got a set of bolt cutters if you really want to do it noooow :thumbup:.....

haha, sok mate, I have my own, I like to build the suspense before using them

 

[belton]

Just finished Day Two of Keith Code's Superbike School an hour and a half ago.

The BEST thing was a drill in the parking lot on steering the bike using the bars, not upper body. The drill was to lock the knees into place on the tank and counter steer the bars to turn - I thought that I had been doing it right but WAS NOT. After about six minutes I got the steering right and the instructor had me turn my old way and I couldn't do it. Once we were on the track and using the proper way to steer, it was sooooo much easier to turn and to lean the bike properly, to apex the corner and to exit the turn. It was unfortunate that we couldn't do the steering drill yesterday but they don't do the drill in the wet as people drop bikes due to their incorrect steering methods.

Class sessions, then the track sessions today were:
- Reference Points, using objects or whatever on the track to help us find where to initiate a turn, apex and exit a turn.
- Changing lines - a slow ride along the left side of the track, over the paint lines, into the grass, to see what the track is like on that side, a slow ride on the right side of the track, and a slow ride down the middle looking at everything. Once we had done that we went back up to speed and it's amazing as there was less hesitancy about riding in certain areas plus the track seemed larger.
- Vanishing Points - just looking for vanishing points on the corners, where the track disappears and how to handle the uncertainty of not being able to see the exit of a turn before entering the turn.
- Wide View - looking with peripheral vision at the whole picture when riding rather than focusing/targeting on one object.
- Pickup - picking up the bike to vertical at the end of a turn while leaving the body leaned over.

Seven track sessions with an instructor who was sometimes behind me, sometimes in front, and sometimes was with one other rider doing the same. At the end of the track session, the instructor discussed things that I was doing right and wrong. That makes 140 minutes of track time today. I was doing yoga for the last four weeks in anticipation of this two day course and was okay, but other guys had sore necks and backs.

The first two track sessions were dry track - I really ripped on the track, carved the corners, leaned the bike, and had a smiley face. The last five track sessions were in totally soaking wet track due to the rain that started, and on the first track session in the rain I started out tentative, but kept increasing the speed. On corner #4 the rear tire would slip just before the apex and for awhile I slowed down there, but as the track sessions wore on I rode corner #4 faster and faster until the point that both the front and rear tire would slip just before the apex, but no big deal, being smooth on the throttle and staying in the lean and light on the bars the bike would just keep on tracking. By the last track session I was probably riding faster on the wet rainy track than I was riding earlier in the day on the dry track.

Overall the rain was a great benefit, the rain's no big deal it just screws with your mind if you let it. Loved the dry track too. As far as the rain goes, I figured that I might not ever get on a track again, so rain or dry I was going to ride this bike as fast as I could in the straights and the turns and fully enjoy the experience.

By the way, yesterday we had three guys ride off the track, and just in the second last track session we had three guys ride off the track, but in all cases there was no damage and no injuries.

Talked to Keith C. and he is pleased with his Superbike School in Australia and England. Unfortunately neither the Austrailian nor the English head guys have goatees, so each school is not as authentic as the original Keith Code school.

later, gerry belton

 

[Stimson]

May 16 is OK for me. :thumbup:

 

[Stimson]

Just finished Day Two of Keith Code's Superbike School an hour and a half ago.

The BEST thing was a drill in the parking lot on steering the bike using the bars, not upper body. The drill was to lock the knees into place on the tank and counter steer the bars to turn - I thought that I had been doing it right but WAS NOT. After about six minutes I got the steering right and the instructor had me turn my old way and I couldn't do it. Once we were on the track and using the proper way to steer, it was sooooo much easier to turn and to lean the bike properly, to apex the corner and to exit the turn. It was unfortunate that we couldn't do the steering drill yesterday but they don't do the drill in the wet as people drop bikes due to their incorrect steering methods.

Class sessions, then the track sessions today were:
- Reference Points, using objects or whatever on the track to help us find where to initiate a turn, apex and exit a turn.
- Changing lines - a slow ride along the left side of the track, over the paint lines, into the grass, to see what the track is like on that side, a slow ride on the right side of the track, and a slow ride down the middle looking at everything. Once we had done that we went back up to speed and it's amazing as there was less hesitancy about riding in certain areas plus the track seemed larger.
- Vanishing Points - just looking for vanishing points on the corners, where the track disappears and how to handle the uncertainty of not being able to see the exit of a turn before entering the turn.
- Wide View - looking with peripheral vision at the whole picture when riding rather than focusing/targeting on one object.
- Pickup - picking up the bike to vertical at the end of a turn while leaving the body leaned over.

Seven track sessions with an instructor who was sometimes behind me, sometimes in front, and sometimes was with one other rider doing the same. At the end of the track session, the instructor discussed things that I was doing right and wrong. That makes 140 minutes of track time today. I was doing yoga for the last four weeks in anticipation of this two day course and was okay, but other guys had sore necks and backs.

The first two track sessions were dry track - I really ripped on the track, carved the corners, leaned the bike, and had a smiley face. The last five track sessions were in totally soaking wet track due to the rain that started, and on the first track session in the rain I started out tentative, but kept increasing the speed. On corner #4 the rear tire would slip just before the apex and for awhile I slowed down there, but as the track sessions wore on I rode corner #4 faster and faster until the point that both the front and rear tire would slip just before the apex, but no big deal, being smooth on the throttle and staying in the lean and light on the bars the bike would just keep on tracking. By the last track session I was probably riding faster on the wet rainy track than I was riding earlier in the day on the dry track.

Overall the rain was a great benefit, the rain's no big deal it just screws with your mind if you let it. Loved the dry track too. As far as the rain goes, I figured that I might not ever get on a track again, so rain or dry I was going to ride this bike as fast as I could in the straights and the turns and fully enjoy the experience.

By the way, yesterday we had three guys ride off the track, and just in the second last track session we had three guys ride off the track, but in all cases there was no damage and no injuries.

Talked to Keith C. and he is pleased with his Superbike School in Australia and England. Unfortunately neither the Austrailian nor the English head guys have goatees, so each school is not as authentic as the original Keith Code school.

later, gerry belton

wow.. wish superbike school was closer for us. sounds awesome....

 

[Humperdinkel]

Just finished Day Two of Keith Code's Superbike School an hour and a half ago.

The BEST thing was a drill in the parking lot on steering the bike using the bars, not upper body. The drill was to lock the knees into place on the tank and counter steer the bars to turn - I thought that I had been doing it right but WAS NOT. After about six minutes I got the steering right and the instructor had me turn my old way and I couldn't do it. Once we were on the track and using the proper way to steer, it was sooooo much easier to turn and to lean the bike properly, to apex the corner and to exit the turn. It was unfortunate that we couldn't do the steering drill yesterday but they don't do the drill in the wet as people drop bikes due to their incorrect steering methods.

Class sessions, then the track sessions today were:
- Reference Points, using objects or whatever on the track to help us find where to initiate a turn, apex and exit a turn.
- Changing lines - a slow ride along the left side of the track, over the paint lines, into the grass, to see what the track is like on that side, a slow ride on the right side of the track, and a slow ride down the middle looking at everything. Once we had done that we went back up to speed and it's amazing as there was less hesitancy about riding in certain areas plus the track seemed larger.
- Vanishing Points - just looking for vanishing points on the corners, where the track disappears and how to handle the uncertainty of not being able to see the exit of a turn before entering the turn.
- Wide View - looking with peripheral vision at the whole picture when riding rather than focusing/targeting on one object.
- Pickup - picking up the bike to vertical at the end of a turn while leaving the body leaned over.

Seven track sessions with an instructor who was sometimes behind me, sometimes in front, and sometimes was with one other rider doing the same. At the end of the track session, the instructor discussed things that I was doing right and wrong. That makes 140 minutes of track time today. I was doing yoga for the last four weeks in anticipation of this two day course and was okay, but other guys had sore necks and backs.

The first two track sessions were dry track - I really ripped on the track, carved the corners, leaned the bike, and had a smiley face. The last five track sessions were in totally soaking wet track due to the rain that started, and on the first track session in the rain I started out tentative, but kept increasing the speed. On corner #4 the rear tire would slip just before the apex and for awhile I slowed down there, but as the track sessions wore on I rode corner #4 faster and faster until the point that both the front and rear tire would slip just before the apex, but no big deal, being smooth on the throttle and staying in the lean and light on the bars the bike would just keep on tracking. By the last track session I was probably riding faster on the wet rainy track than I was riding earlier in the day on the dry track.

Overall the rain was a great benefit, the rain's no big deal it just screws with your mind if you let it. Loved the dry track too. As far as the rain goes, I figured that I might not ever get on a track again, so rain or dry I was going to ride this bike as fast as I could in the straights and the turns and fully enjoy the experience.

By the way, yesterday we had three guys ride off the track, and just in the second last track session we had three guys ride off the track, but in all cases there was no damage and no injuries.

Talked to Keith C. and he is pleased with his Superbike School in Australia and England. Unfortunately neither the Austrailian nor the English head guys have goatees, so each school is not as authentic as the original Keith Code school.

later, gerry belton

Thanks for another awesome review Gerry , im thinking we may have to go to superbike school boys .....Amazing how little you know till a pro gets hold of you even after riding for years and years :thumbup:...A pro rider that is Boys...