Replacing OEM cans with scorpions on 2005 fz6 Fazer

[JasonB]

Evening all,

Need some advice on the correct fitment of my new to me scorpion stainless steel exhaust system.

The OEM link pipe has an internal diameter of 50mm, the replacement scorpion pipe is 45mm.

The outer diameter of the OEM cat pipe at the tip is 45mm, however there appears to be some kind of copper wrap on the end of the cat pipe which increases the diameter to 50mm. This means that the scorpion link pipe won't currently fit the cat pipe unless I remove this wrap or replace the cat pipe.

I've attached an image of the cat pipe and wrap. What do you guys n girls think? Can/should the wrap be removed?

What are my options for fitting this link pipe? It came off another 2005 fz6 apparently but I don't know if the PO used a decat pipe or removed this wrap himself.

 

[dschult2]

Just installed some Scorpions myself last weekend on my '04. I had no wrap and it fit just fine. There is not supposed to be any wrap there. take it off and it should fit together fine.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just installed some Scorpions myself last weekend on my '04. I had no wrap and it fit just fine. There is not supposed to be any wrap there. take it off and it should fit together fine.

+1 on the above.

I just checked mine(with cat), there's NO gasket inbetween. Remove it and slide the Scorp on.

 

[JasonB]

Scott, do you still have the OEM pipe on your bike?

The OEM link pipe on mine definitely wouldn't fit securely if this wrap wasn't on the end of the cat pipe.

The wrap itself looks like its bonded on the leading edge to the pipe tip. Not sure if this is as a result of the heat cycle that the pipe goes through or whether it was an intentional thing. It looks like I'll have to remove the cat pipe as well in order to properly remove the wrap though.

And I thought it would only take a couple of hours to do this

 

[dschult2]

You wont have to use your OEM link pipe if it even is OEM. It may not be and didn't fit properly to begin with, hence the wrap. There should be two Scorpion cans fitted to the Scorpion link pipe which is then fitted to your cat pipe. It sounds to me like the PO did some shabby backyard repair work to the exhaust. That wrap needs to come off and then you shouldn't have a problem. Unless that's not an OEM cat pipe:-(

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Scott, do you still have the OEM pipe on your bike?

The OEM link pipe on mine definitely wouldn't fit securely if this wrap wasn't on the end of the cat pipe.

The wrap itself looks like its bonded on the leading edge to the pipe tip. Not sure if this is as a result of the heat cycle that the pipe goes through or whether it was an intentional thing. It looks like I'll have to remove the cat pipe as well in order to properly remove the wrap though.

And I thought it would only take a couple of hours to do this

I bought the bike from a friend and know what and wasn't done to it. The exhaust, when I got it was bone stock, cat still installed.

When I put my Scorps on years ago,(5 maybe?), the stock muffler slipped off. The "Y" pipe slipped on..

I honestly don't remember the gasket there (the shop manual and parts fisch shows it there for the stock set up) but the Scorp pipe just slipped over the mid pipe (with cat), no issues. Short of pulling my exhaust apart, just looking, (the other day) I couldn't see the gasket. It may have come off with the muffler....

Do you have a cat (bulge very visable) on your mid pipe? If someone changed that pipe, it may be your issue. The Yamaha parts fisch for the 2005 model shows a cat as part of the mid pipe.

The Scorp "Y" pipe should just slip over the mid pipe, no gasket, use the Scorpion clamp (super HD).

If everything looks stock, and you bought the pipes new (even if you didn't), get a hold of Scorpion, somethings not right.

Good luck and please post what you come up with...


Here's a link to the instructions:

http://www.scorpion-exhausts.com/siteadmin/site_images/uploaded_documents/95_01~_eya-70-14.pdf

It doesn't mention removing or leaving on the exhaust gasket, but it should slip on fairly tightly. The clamp helps keeps things from leaking (I have absolutly NO leakage at that joint).

 

[JasonB]

As far as I'm aware the bike is stock and I'm sure it's still got the bulge in the cat mid-pipe which would suggest it hasn't been replaced.

I want to take the wrap of the mid pipe, it's just I know that in doing so I'll not be able to put the OEM can back on again without somehow replacing the wrap, finding a suitably sized gasket or replacing the mid pipe completely.

I'm going to take the mid pipe off after work today and take some more pictures and then make a decision on what to do.

Oh and lastly, if it wasn't for the wrap, it would just slip on.... Would just like to understand why there's a difference before going in with my size 12's ;-)

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As far as I'm aware the bike is stock and I'm sure it's still got the bulge in the cat mid-pipe which would suggest it hasn't been replaced.

I want to take the wrap of the mid pipe, it's just I know that in doing so I'll not be able to put the OEM can back on again without somehow replacing the wrap, finding a suitably sized gasket or replacing the mid pipe completely.

I'm going to take the mid pipe off after work today and take some more pictures and then make a decision on what to do.

Oh and lastly, if it wasn't for the wrap, it would just slip on.... Would just like to understand why there's a difference before going in with my size 12's ;-)

It looks like a wrap but its not.

Once off, you'll realize its just a simple Heat resistant, round/hollow, pipe shaped "gasket".

It'll easily just tap off the end of the OEM pipe.

I'd use maybe a 1/4 drive rachet extention and work your way around it, it'll just slip off and if your gentle, can be re-used. If it gets torn up, a new one is cheap enough (its a facory Yamaha OEM part, nothing special about it) and just slips over the mid pipe end..

I wouldn't be pulling the mid pipe, there's NO reason to at this point.. Gently tap off the gasket, clean up the end of the pipe and you should be good to go..

 

[JasonB]

It's not a solid gasket as such so there's no chance of being able to tap it off the end of the pipe. I started unwrapping it last night but as I said found that it snagged on the leading edge of the pipe tip.

It looks like a strip of wire gauze that's been wrapped around the pipe end, but the edges are too cleanly finished to suggest that this was added/modified after the initial sale. In other words, either the bike has a different mid pipe to standard OEM or this is a genuine OEM pipe for a European spec FZ6 or Yamaha use different mid pipes for the same damn model depending on what's available at the time the bike is built.

I will see if I can get better pictures that show what I'm talking about. Also pictures of the connecting ends of the link pipes.

Just need to get the mid pipe off the bike and onto a bench for closer examination.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you look at te exhaust parts fisch for your bike, it may give you a better idea:

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2005 FZ6 - FZ6ST EXHAUST Diagram

Part #12 is what your issue is.


If you pull that mid pipe, they'll be another similar gasket down below...

Yours may be falling apart from heat, old age, PO (could have made his own wrap instead of a factory part), etc, but it should be one piece and NOT un-wrap. It's possible, when it was made initially, was wrapped at the factory but was likely pressed, or something put on it to keep its shape.

I seriously doubt Yamaha changed that gasket, even between different countries, there's no reason to...

 

[JasonB]

Scott,

On closer inspection it does indeed look like an OEM part now and after applying a little WD40 to the outer area of the mid-pipe I managed to get the gasket to slide off.

I should have checked the parts fiche to begin with, to see what parts were included as that would have saved some bother. And yeah, you're bang on with the gasket on the header pipes. There's another gasket on the pipe underneath the bike.

Anyway, I've just loosely mounted the scorpion cans and started it up, sounds much better than the stock cans, can't wait to get it all fixed up properly and back together.

The one thing I did notice (and it looks like the PO of the scorpion cans had the same issue) is that with the Givi toprack mounts in place it's really quite a tight fit, so much so that the top of the cans are pushing slightly against the bottom of the subframe, enough to cause a small dent, but nothing that would be visible when the Bike is fully assembled.

I'm a bit gutted because I sprung for two new stainless steel straps (@ £40) to hold the exhaust in place as they were missing, but it looks like I won't be needing them now.

I'll take a few more pics later on tonight as I'm re-assembling everything.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Scott,

On closer inspection it does indeed look like an OEM part now and after applying a little WD40 to the outer area of the mid-pipe I managed to get the gasket to slide off.

I should have checked the parts fiche to begin with, to see what parts were included as that would have saved some bother. And yeah, you're bang on with the gasket on the header pipes. There's another gasket on the pipe underneath the bike.

Anyway, I've just loosely mounted the scorpion cans and started it up, sounds much better than the stock cans, can't wait to get it all fixed up properly and back together.

The one thing I did notice (and it looks like the PO of the scorpion cans had the same issue) is that with the Givi toprack mounts in place it's really quite a tight fit, so much so that the top of the cans are pushing slightly against the bottom of the subframe, enough to cause a small dent, but nothing that would be visible when the Bike is fully assembled.

I'm a bit gutted because I sprung for two new stainless steel straps (@ £40) to hold the exhaust in place as they were missing, but it looks like I won't be needing them now.

I'll take a few more pics later on tonight as I'm re-assembling everything.

Glad to hear you got the "Y" pipe on. I'm sure guys have had that rack on (I don't, so I can't say without maybe seeing some pic's for some idea's)..

If you assemble everything semi loose, there is some play in the system. Possibly adding a washer, here or there may allow the cans to move away from the rack without modding anything. If the rack is just touching the mufflers, (if there's enough metal on the rack), I'd probably just grind a little bit away and give it a quick repaint, (or if in area not seen, some touch up paint to prevent rust)

You DO NOT WANT any metal to metal contact between the mufflers/rack, (even if out of sight) as the muffler WILL wear thru with time causing damage to it as well as some vibration and likely noise along with it...


How are you getting by without using the main hanging straps that wrap around the mufflers?

*And pull the DB killers out (if not out already). It'll be a whole different bike!!!

 

[JasonB]

Ok have been out and taken a couple more pics of the system.

With the Givi top mounts in place, the exhaust does touch the subframe but seems to be very secure. I can't wiggle it at any point, but whether it's the same under movement is another matter.

 

[JasonB]

Oh and while I'd love to run the bike without the baffles, I live in a new housing estate and we're still getting acquainted with our neighbours. I don't want to be known as that noisy a-hole on the motorbike

It's also illegal as far as I know in the UK to run the bike without them, not that that stops a lot of bikers I know from doing it anyway. I'd just rather avoid a fine and points on my licence.

 

[FinalImpact]

I've had the exhaust off three of our bikes. That bushing "typically" stays in the muffler section bounded to the ID of the muf vs stuck to the OD of the mid-pipe.
Its pretty spendy material and is used to minimize leaks, allows for small amounts of "misalignment", as such it helps reduce vibration between parts by allowing some movement without leaking exhaust gases.
It unfortunate the after market world didn't us it as it.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Very interesting set up Givi has there....

Looking at it, probably overkill thinking on my part, the stock Scorp straps with rubber obviously holds the mufflers ALL the way around each muffler.

The Givi, is made to go around the stock, large SINGLE muffler and isn't designed to support it however, it looks to be supporting the outside and bottom of the new mufflers.

The real issue I have, is the muffler is not grabbed or securred by those Scorpion straps, just kinda sitting atop the Givi rack.

I would probably give GIVI a call and see what they recommend.

It'd be nice if you could install the Scorpion straps you ordered and bolt them up as normal for FULL SUPPORT all the way around..

It'd lessen the opportunity for vibration loosening up clamps etc, as the clamp to the "Y" pipe is really all that's holding the mufflers on

Even if you could possibly move the GIVI rack some to slide the Scorpion straps in there would eliminate any later potential issues.

At the very least, should it stay that way, keep an eye on those muffler to "Y' pipe clamps, that's currently all that's securring your mufflers...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Look at post #6, picture #3 on this thread:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-mods/47857-givi-luggage-aftermarket-exhaust.html

I believe thats the same set up as yours and he was able to get the Scorpion straps in there under the Givi rack... :thumbup:

 

[JasonB]

It's all back together now, the mufflers aren't going anywhere trust me! They're as secure as they could be, or as tight as a Gnats chuff

Fortunately the Givi brackets that fit around the exhaust have a heat resistant rubber strip on the inside edge which avoids direct contact.

The only area I was concerned about is where the mufflers touch the underside of the subframe, but seeing as there's no wiggle room when it's all done up I don't think there's too much to worry about.

[

The only remaining job is to secure the indicator wires away from the mufflers.

Looking forward to taking her out for a spin tomorrow!

Thanks for your help everyone and a big shout out to Scott for being the voice of reason!

 

[JasonB]

I've just had a quick look at that post you referenced and those mufflers aren't quite the same, his are the oval mufflers which are wider and a little flatter than the round mufflers I've got.

With the profile of the ovals there is no way the Givi bracket would fit the way it's intended to. At least with the round mufflers, it's a bit tight but as far as I can tell it lines up ok and when tightened up holds the mufflers securely.


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[drumbum]

I should make a thread on this. But I have the givi (3bags) on my bike with scorpion and fender eliminator.

This is an overall pic of the back end. The key is to loosen those two bolts that hold the exhaust in place. There is a TON of wiggle room to move them around.

And you need to move them around or these two bolts (in purple) will hit each other and prevent you from screwing something in. It might also help to remove the boot on the exhaust then put in the givi screw first and replace the exhaust screw. Hope that makes sense

And now for the fender eliminator. I went to the hardware store and bought 1/4" threaded rod (I think it's 12" long but realistically it can be cut down to about 6" I got 4 1/4 washers and 6-1/4" nuts. All for about $3. I threaded 4 of the nuts on (in a locking configuration) added a washer and put it through the givi luggage where the fender screws should go. I the. Added two more washers and the last two nuts and adjusted them till the givi bracket wasn't touching my scorpions (see the small gap at the green arrow). Tighten it down and all set. It's been this way for about 25ooo miles no problems. Never even had to tighten them. It is very secure and I don't worry about weight or anything. I know this pic will make more sense than the explanation (sorry this pic had my license plate showing, so I deleted it and uploaded a new one, it should be post #22 on the next page, sorry for the inconvenience)

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