Purging Coolant like crazy and white exhaust.

[ELHOCKEY]

I recently posted a thread about rough idle called whistle and choked rev at idle if that gives you any more info than this.

yesterday I got up in the morning to ride it was about 50 deg and foggy. after about five miles I stopped to get someone and ten minutes later when I started the bike back up there was white exhaust, it didn't smell normal possibly smelled like coolant burning off.

rode another five miles and the exhaust was back to normal so I thought It might have just been steam I was seeing, but the smell didn't go away and several people around said the bike smelled "hot" even though the temperature gauge was saying the temp was fine.

then five miles later I stopped again and the white exhaust was back, the day before I topped the coolant overflow tank off to the "full" mark but I think if the coolant is too full it will purge out a hose.

today I turned it on the coolant was where I filled it too before but after 20 minutes the coolant purged twice in about 5 minutes and now is down to the lower mark. and the bike smells hot again. I checked the oil while the engine was hot and it wasn't frothy or anything weird, but it might be a little overfull.

I hope the white exhaust was steam and not a head gasket problem, any Ideas what the H*** is going on?

 

[YZF73]

From the symptoms you've mentioned, I would guess that you do indeed have a head gasket leak. Coolant leaking into the cylinder(s) would cause the steaming at the exhaust you've mentioned. Along with pressure from the cylinder(s) leaking into and over-pressurising the cooling system, causing coolant to be expelled from the expansion tank via the overflow.

A 'sniff' test would be the best way to determine whether this is in fact the case, this is where a tester containing a special fluid is introduced to the air within the cooling systems expansion tank, with the fluid changing colour in the presence of combustion gases. A garage should be able to perform this test for you at a relatively low cost.


Hope this helps,

Yamahaboyz

 

[ChevyFazer]

Can you say blown head gasket?

I can, b-l-o-w-n H-e-a-d g-a-s-k-e-t

 

[YZF73]

Can you say blown head gasket?

I can, b-l-o-w-n H-e-a-d g-a-s-k-e-t

...

 

[ChevyFazer]

...

Blown, leaking same thing eithe way I've been drinkingView attachment 42833 and his head gasket is ****ed

 

[ELHOCKEY]

Thanks guys

can anyone ball park for me what that costs to replace? I have no faith in myself for that repair...

How do these go bad? is it just with time or something stupid I did?

 

[Scott4130]

I've got the same issue, but my situation is slightly more complicated. It all begins last Thursday when I decided to pop out the cam chain tensioner to check how smooth its operation was (typical cam chain sound problem). I also decided to pop the cover off the cam chain housing to have a look at the chain. I then forgot that I had the tensioner out and cranked the engine over slightly with a wrench. The clinking sound of the chain skipping some teeth was unmistakable. After a bunch of swearing I got on with removing the valve cover and everything else that goes with it so I could re-time the motor. I believe I have it timed correctly, but the marks on the crankshaft and camshaft don't quite seem to line up perfectly; albeit better than they would if I moved the chain to the next tooth over. Anyways, put everything back together and did a compression test. All cylinders are above minimum compression, but 2 are slightly below target and 2 are right on target (so I believe the timing is correct) - This compression test was performed "cold" by the way, so I guess the pressures should be slightly lower than the standard hot compression test. I decided to do a coolant flush because I already had the system drained, so I get on with that and start the engine. Engine burns some oil for the first bit which was expected since I poured some oil in the cylinders to lubricate them while hand cranking the engine, but even after half an hour it is still burning oil slightly. It will burn oil for awhile, then appear to stop; then I'll rev the throttle a bit and the smoke will come back slightly. So here's my thinking:

1. Even though I never power cranked the motor with the timing off, it is possible I have damaged a valve slightly which could cause oil to drip down the stem and into the cylinder.

2. Even though I put some oil into the cylinder for hand cranking, I didn't do this till about halfway through the project, so there was some cranking going on before I added the oil. It is possible I've scratched up the cylinder bore/oil rings.

3. The bubbling coolant could be due to a blown head gasket (would the work I did have caused the gasket to suddenly develop a leak?) or could it be due to air still trapped in the system since I've just completely emptied the cooling system and added new coolant.

In any case, my symptoms are the same as yours, bubbling coolant (intermittently; is yours constant?) and the occasional bout of white smoke coming out the pipes. Unfortunately for me I've changed so many variables I don't know which way is up anymore...

To top it all off I was planning on heading off for a trip to Vancouver tomorrow, but now I'm considering taking my car. I think I'll slap it fully together for a test drive right now and see what happens. Any major consequences of a 2200 km road trip with a blown head gasket?

 

[ELHOCKEY]

Mines intermittent the smell is constant but the white smoke is 50/50 bubbling coolant is on and off too. do not ride very far at all with a bad head gasket if you bubble too much coolant into your cylinders you can displace gas and oil and over pressurize your cylinder and bend metal, you can also end up with a hydrolocked engine.

 

[yamihoe]

if it is a smalllll leak you can TRY some of that liquid aluminum stuff from Bar's leaks for the radiator....not the WHOLE bottle but just a bit. its worth a shot before deciding to tear down the top end and do a headgasket...

headgaskets can go bad just because of bad luck, sometimes when the bike isnt properly warmed up and you get into the throttle a bit, that can cause it to go bad....even oil thats too thick can do it before it is properly warmed up...

 

[ELHOCKEY]

after talking to my "Jack of all trades master of all too" father I guess I'll warm er up and drain the oil to see if any water/coolant is in there, that will tell me at least if it is leaking badly.

This is driving me nuts I just want to ride my bike.

 

[Scott4130]

Update: I took it for a decent test drive and didn't notice any smoke from the tailpipes (although it's hard to tell when it's behind you and you're going 90 kph). Watched the pipes at the end of the ride and didn't see any smoke, so maybe it was just some oil in the exhaust that needed a good burning. The coolant reservoir was bubbling at the end though; however I noticed it stops bubbling when the radiator fan comes on . I think I'll delay the start of my road trip and try out that sniff test that yamahaboyz mentioned. I saw it the other day at the automotive parts store, you shouldn't even need to bring it to a shop for that test. If it comes up negative I'll just bring a small bottle of antifreeze with me and top up the radiator as needed (if needed). In addition to the oil change you should try that test too ELHOCKEY.

 

[yamihoe]

It would be most noticeable from the pipes on a cold startup. as the bike gets warmer it would be very difficult to see a leak that is as small as it is. top it off and keep an eye on it!! :thumbup: GOOD LUCK

 

[Scott4130]

If it is your head gasket then whether or not to take it to a shop or do it yourself depends entirely on how confident you are as a mechanic and how solid your knowledge of the workings of a combustion engine is. Have you ever taken an engine apart before? IMHO the hardest part of that fix will probably be getting the throttle bodies off and all the other gizmos between you and the engine (fairing/windshield, battery, battery box, air box, valve cover, exhaust headers...). Once you have all that cleared out you should just need to take out the cams (so you cam take off the timing chain) and then unbolt and remove the cylinder head. I'm not speaking from experience on these engines (the farthest I got was the valve cover), but generally once you have the engine on it's own it is simple to get inside. As for cost if you take it to a shop you may as well just call and ask for a quote, I'm sure they can give you a good ballpark value; but I don't think you'd get out of there for less than $800-$1000, basically for the reason's above; there is just so much crap between you and that gasket.

 

[YZF73]

I've got the same issue, but my situation is slightly more complicated. It all begins last Thursday when I decided to pop out the cam chain tensioner to check how smooth its operation was (typical cam chain sound problem). I also decided to pop the cover off the cam chain housing to have a look at the chain. I then forgot that I had the tensioner out and cranked the engine over slightly with a wrench. The clinking sound of the chain skipping some teeth was unmistakable. After a bunch of swearing I got on with removing the valve cover and everything else that goes with it so I could re-time the motor. I believe I have it timed correctly, but the marks on the crankshaft and camshaft don't quite seem to line up perfectly; albeit better than they would if I moved the chain to the next tooth over. Anyways, put everything back together and did a compression test. All cylinders are above minimum compression, but 2 are slightly below target and 2 are right on target (so I believe the timing is correct) - This compression test was performed "cold" by the way, so I guess the pressures should be slightly lower than the standard hot compression test. I decided to do a coolant flush because I already had the system drained, so I get on with that and start the engine. Engine burns some oil for the first bit which was expected since I poured some oil in the cylinders to lubricate them while hand cranking the engine, but even after half an hour it is still burning oil slightly. It will burn oil for awhile, then appear to stop; then I'll rev the throttle a bit and the smoke will come back slightly. So here's my thinking:

1. Even though I never power cranked the motor with the timing off, it is possible I have damaged a valve slightly which could cause oil to drip down the stem and into the cylinder.

If you only cranked the engine over by hand you are very unlikely to have bent a valve, it is quite common when a cars timing belt breaks at idle to have no valve damage whatsoever.

2. Even though I put some oil into the cylinder for hand cranking, I didn't do this till about halfway through the project, so there was some cranking going on before I added the oil. It is possible I've scratched up the cylinder bore/oil rings.

Very unlikely, you are rubbing two highly machined surfaces together at a very slow speed.

3. The bubbling coolant could be due to a blown head gasket (would the work I did have caused the gasket to suddenly develop a leak?) or could it be due to air still trapped in the system since I've just completely emptied the cooling system and added new coolant.

The work you've completed would be unlikely to cause a head gasket leak in itself, the bubbling coolant could well be air escaping from the system as you've just changed the coolant. However, the bubbling shouldn't really persist for very long, the system should be quite well bled after the engine has been up to operating temperature for just a few minutes.

In any case, my symptoms are the same as yours, bubbling coolant (intermittently; is yours constant?) and the occasional bout of white smoke coming out the pipes. Unfortunately for me I've changed so many variables I don't know which way is up anymore...

To top it all off I was planning on heading off for a trip to Vancouver tomorrow, but now I'm considering taking my car. I think I'll slap it fully together for a test drive right now and see what happens. Any major consequences of a 2200 km road trip with a blown head gasket?


As you've mentioned in your next post that the bubbling has continued, I would definitely go ahead and do a sniff test, either you can have a shop do it or buy the tester, whichever way you find easiest.


Hope this helps,

Yamahaboyz

 

[YZF73]

If it is your head gasket then whether or not to take it to a shop or do it yourself depends entirely on how confident you are as a mechanic and how solid your knowledge of the workings of a combustion engine is. Have you ever taken an engine apart before? IMHO the hardest part of that fix will probably be getting the throttle bodies off and all the other gizmos between you and the engine (fairing/windshield, battery, battery box, air box, valve cover, exhaust headers...). Once you have all that cleared out you should just need to take out the cams (so you cam take off the timing chain) and then unbolt and remove the cylinder head. I'm not speaking from experience on these engines (the farthest I got was the valve cover), but generally once you have the engine on it's own it is simple to get inside. As for cost if you take it to a shop you may as well just call and ask for a quote, I'm sure they can give you a good ballpark value; but I don't think you'd get out of there for less than $800-$1000, basically for the reason's above; there is just so much crap between you and that gasket.

Absolutely, a head gasket replacement is quite a big job purely because of all the stuff you need to remove before getting to the engine itself. Personally I would advise that you have a garage do it, purely beacuse they are then liable for any further problems that could occur after the head gasket has been replaced.

However, before getting into head gasket replacement, please perform all the necessary tests, including a sniff test, compression tests etc to be absolutely sure that you do have a head gasket leak, you wouldn't want to spend out on a head gasket replacement to find that the head gasket is not actually the problem!!!


Yamahaboyz

 

[champion221elite]

Burning coolant will discharge a white colored smoke and will have a sweet smell to the exhaust.

Sounds like you have a blown head gasket, or a cracked/ warped cylinder head. The part where you said there were bubbles in the coolant reservoir certainly sounds like you're leaking exhaust gasses into the cooling system.

DO NOT attempt to continue riding your bike! There should be no bubbles in the coolant reservoir. If you continue running your bike, it will leave you stranded, and could cause substantial damage to the engine.

 

[dpaul007]

I'm in agreement with champion here. I would park it until it gets fixed. Get your parts gathered up, grab the service manual if need be, and spend a weekend working on it if you are comfortable in doing so. Maybe you got other members in your area that are willing to help you out.

That or save your pennies for a local dealer to work on it.

 

[FinalImpact]

Case #1: Agreed, blown head gasket. Don't RIDE IT!!
PS - the exhaust (three catalytic converters) will hold and dispel a good amount of moisture. It takes a good long run to clean the exhaust free in spit of the heat involved with all those hot gases. Also - not all blown head gaskets result in oil in the crank case. Often it is the case but not always. I'd park it as you don't want to ruin the CATs and have to replace them. Plus O2 equipped vehicles (later years) will have the O2 sensor destroyed by the glycol. But you risk damaging the head and in rare cases the top of the cylinder. This ** COULD ** result in having to have both machined flat to restore their trueness needed to make a new head gasket seal.

In case #2; YES, You can bend valves turning an engine over by hand. With the spark plugs out, you may feel it. With the plugs in, it may feel like a compression stroke. Remember the cam turns half the crank speed so you have a 2:1 mechanical advantage to your detriment when it comes to bending valves. What were the compression numbers across all cylinders?


Chev, that's mean to tease us!!! Send me bottle of KB! It's damn fine bourbon!

 

[ChevyFazer]

Case #1: Agreed, blown head gasket. Don't RIDE IT!!
PS - the exhaust (three catalytic converters) will hold and dispel a good amount of moisture. It takes a good long run to clean the exhaust free in spit of the heat involved with all those hot gases. Also - not all blown head gaskets result in oil in the crank case. Often it is the case but not always. I'd park it as you don't want to ruin the CATs and have to replace them. Plus O2 equipped vehicles (later years) will have the O2 sensor destroyed by the glycol. But you risk damaging the head and in rare cases the top of the cylinder. This ** COULD ** result in having to have both machined flat to restore their trueness needed to make a new head gasket seal.

In case #2; YES, You can bend valves turning an engine over by hand. With the spark plugs out, you may feel it. With the plugs in, it may feel like a compression stroke. Remember the cam turns half the crank speed so you have a 2:1 mechanical advantage to your detriment when it comes to bending valves. What were the compression numbers across all cylinders?


Chev, that's mean to tease us!!! Send me bottle of KB! It's damn fine bourbon!

My favorite!!!

And +1 on everything said, it all depends on where the gasket let loose. Either way it will only cause more problems to keep riding it.

 

[FinalImpact]

Common causes for gasket failure:

Aged coolant: over time and heat cycles, anti-freeze looses its rust and corrosion properties but retains its freeze and boil over properties. Because of this, its often left in TOO LONG and erosion of the head and gasket begins.

Low fluid levels: when engines become low on fluid they often do not report being hot as the liquid in the system turns to steam. Steam although hot as h$ll does not have the thermal capacity to heat the temperature sensor and report the "over heating condition. This can happen from something as simple as defective radiator cap, to debris stuck in the radiator caps seals which prevent sealing. Remember the cooling system must be able to hold about 20lbs PSI of pressure as well as be able to pull a vacuum. If it can't pull a vacuum for any reason it will run itself out of coolant and warp the head and begin leaking.

Defective materials: the gasket had a defect which lead to it failure.

Defective sealing surface: A simply irregularity in the machined head or cylinder can last for years but as the coolant breaks down it etched away eroding the gaskets. Then the gasket leaks from the tiny defect.

Lugging the engine around: People that short shift and fail to down shift allow tremendous cylinder pressures to build and coupled with detonation and/or pre-ignition and the head gasket blows out.

Those are a few of the common reasons why the top end leaks.