Potential Riders MUST READ!!!!!

[rdabernig41]

I'm 19 years old and i actually bought my first bike for a graduation present at 18 years old and it was the 2009 FZ6. I've been riding dirt bike since about 8 years old and have progressed up to the 2009 YZ250 (2stroke) and honestly having all the expierence on 2 wheels really did help my street capabilities even though it was on dirt. Basically if you decide on getting the FZ6 for ur first bike you can't be "****y" about it. When i got on the bike it was new and a little intimidating. Instead of getting on the road and seeing wut it could do i took it easy. Barely even revved the engine for the first month. Getting a brand new bike and having to take it through the break in period probably helped a little too since i couldnt rev it past 7k. But in my opinion most of the kids that want a FZ6 for their first bike want to jump on it and beat on it and see wut it can do. When the bike actually has tons of power. When i hit about 8k it really kicks into gear and wants to go and you really have to hang on. I probably wouldnt recommend this bike or any other 600cc bike to any beginner unless they have experience on 2 wheels and I knew they wouldnt be stupid on it. And I'm not saying that it's not hard to start out on a bigger bike. I had my challenges but i overcame them pretty easy. Now i might just be an exception to other people. I think that it mainly just depends on if your going to be more committed to being safe on the bike instead of wanting to go fast and beat on it.

 

[lonesoldier84]

did sportrider leave the forum too?

I'm 19 years old and i actually bought my first bike for a graduation present at 18 years old and it was the 2009 FZ6. I've been riding dirt bike since about 8 years old and have progressed up to the 2009 YZ250 (2stroke) and honestly having all the expierence on 2 wheels really did help my street capabilities even though it was on dirt. Basically if you decide on getting the FZ6 for ur first bike you can't be "****y" about it. When i got on the bike it was new and a little intimidating. Instead of getting on the road and seeing wut it could do i took it easy. Barely even revved the engine for the first month. Getting a brand new bike and having to take it through the break in period probably helped a little too since i couldnt rev it past 7k. But in my opinion most of the kids that want a FZ6 for their first bike want to jump on it and beat on it and see wut it can do. When the bike actually has tons of power. When i hit about 8k it really kicks into gear and wants to go and you really have to hang on. I probably wouldnt recommend this bike or any other 600cc bike to any beginner unless they have experience on 2 wheels and I knew they wouldnt be stupid on it. And I'm not saying that it's not hard to start out on a bigger bike. I had my challenges but i overcame them pretty easy. Now i might just be an exception to other people. I think that it mainly just depends on if your going to be more committed to being safe on the bike instead of wanting to go fast and beat on it.

yeah it's not THAT far off the pace of an R6. and we all know how great those are as first bikes.

 

[Rob2222]

Hi all,

to be honest, I didnt read the full thread. But I just have a idea for you to think about it.
As a new rider here in Germany you are limited to 34p for the first 2 or 3 years of riding. And this is a really good thing!

So we have for almost all bikes 34hp-limiter kits aviable. Also for the FZ6 and FZ1. These kits usually cost between 50 and 100 Euro.

IF you are a new rider and IF you really want to start with a 600ccm or bigger bike, you should think about to purchase such a kit and drive 1/2 - 2 years with 35hp. It doesnt sound much, but it is really enough for learning and its enough for 150km/h top speed, too.

BR
Robert

 

[NineseveN]

Hi all,

to be honest, I didnt read the full thread. But I just have a idea for you to think about it.
As a new rider here in Germany you are limited to 34p for the first 2 or 3 years of riding. And this is a really good thing!

So we have for almost all bikes 34hp-limiter kits aviable. Also for the FZ6 and FZ1. These kits usually cost between 50 and 100 Euro.

IF you are a new rider and IF you really want to start with a 600ccm or bigger bike, you should think about to purchase such a kit and drive 1/2 - 2 years with 35hp. It doesnt sound much, but it is really enough for learning and its enough for 150km/h top speed, too.

BR
Robert

That would be great, except they seem to be hard to come by in the US. I'd actually think one of those would be good for most new riders, but I'm not sure how many would use one. I'd like to think that if they were easier to come by, some would. Of course, maybe they ARE easy to come by in a market like the US but nobody buys them.

 

[Rob2222]

I think its no problem to buy these kits trough the internet.

 

[NineseveN]

I think its no problem to buy these kits trough the internet.

You think or you know?

I just researched limiting the FZ6 for a few minutes through Google and this forum and turned up nothing except one kit, which is from overseas and would cost about $280 to get it and ship it to the states, from a vendor that most people in the states, especially those new to bikes, have never heard of. That doesn't inspire confidence.

Secondly, have you ever tried to return something to another continent for repair/replacement? Just because something is possible in this global economy doesn't mean it's a smart move or one that relative n00bs would know about or consider.

Check this forum and you'll see folks telling people interested in limiting the bike not to bother or fashion some form of throttle cable stop (or modify the existing one). Everyone seems to love the idea of a limiter kit, no one seems to know where to get one and which one to get. No one seems to be able to post a link from a popular and trustworthy vendor that carriers a known and trustworthy power limiting product. If it just comes down to spending $200-$300 to take power away from a bike, having it shipped overseas where the buyer has very little leverage to handle any problems, my bet is, they're going to think of it as too much of a hassle and not bother. That's a shame really, people are going to get the bike they want due to style, comfort, fit, etc... I bet you could convince quite a few folks to detune their bikes for a bit while they learn since that would alleviate almost any of the n00b arguments caricatured in the original post in this thread.

One thread here was helpful, someone linked to a rev limiter, though there was no consensus on how well these work or what's involved in getting them on the bike. Seems a great deal more simple than a full detune kit.

The problem is, trying to convince guys to buy a "starter bike" that they're not attracted to is a losing proposition since they all think they can take it easy (and many experienced riders actually agree with them). I would think one would have better success at convincing a new rider to install a rev limiter (if that actually works well in this particular role) for $150 or less than selling them on some vague reference to a Euro limiter kit that no one has much to say about and isn't easy to find. Trying to convince a guy to get a Ninja 250 for his first bike to learn on is like trying to convince your buddy to go bone a girl he can't stand for his first hundred times so that he doesn't ruin himself on the super-hot girl of his dreams. You just can't win that battle with any regularity.

 

[Cochiez]

I have to say that I didn't read the first article. I purchased my first bike in March 2007. It was an 07 FZ6. I loved it then, and I love it now. I haven't laid it over (yet) or even dropped it. That said, I just got home from a moderate canyon run and I truly did thank God for keeping me safe as I exited the canyon.

Now, I will not dispute the logic behind starting small and working your way up. I realize that, to most, starting the way I did was foolish. However. . . .

I'm 6'3 and 210 lbs. Yes, I've ridden a Ninja 250. It's a fun little bike. However, I live in a windy, hilly area and that bike simply cannot keep me at freeway speed in those conditions. And, frankly, I believe that safe motorcycle riding is defensive motorcycle riding. That means having four things: awareness, agility, stopping power, and the power to get out of the way. 250's lack the final part of that equation (at my weight). Also, my FZ6 feels small (physically) to me at times. I tower over the 250. Very uncomfortable.

My riding buddy with the 250 weighs 50 pounds less than me. She's also about a foot shorter than me. It was her first bike, and she still loves it after riding for a couple of years now.

On to the benefits of starting out on the FZ6:
First, it has STANDARD bike geometry. It's geometry is easy to ride and control around town and on the freeway, but it takes skill to ride hard, such as on a track. True sportbikes have radically different geometry, which is more difficult to control at low speeds, such as around town and/or at low speeds. This difficult to handle geometry is one reason why squids tend to drop them or lay them over at low speeds.

Second, it physically fits me. Yes, comfort and fit are actually part of being a safe rider. If you're not comfortable then you stop focusing on the road and your surroundings. Also, if your bike doesn't fit you, then it's more difficult to control.

Third, IT'S A 600! Please, hear me out on this. The FZ6 is a kitten below 6,000rpm. Heck, it doesn't even wake up until 8k or so. When I was starting out I kept the RPMs down around 4k. As I progressed I steadily increased my usage of the power range. The ability to do this is a major benefit of such engines. They are very easy to ride at low rpm, though they still have enough power down there to get you moving. However, they're a blast at higher RPMs, once you learn how to use them. To tell you the truth, I don't think I really knew how to use the available power until I'd been riding a couple of years. I guess I didn't really need to, though.

My fourth point: being a squid on a sportbike takes a very different mentality than most of us (fz6 riders) have. It's a sort of "look at me!" or "hey, I'm cool too.." type of attitude. I'm making a generalization, but people with this mentality tend to show off - even if it means riding beyond their skill level.

Let's face it: We have wonderful, beautiful bikes, but they aren't as flashy as a cbr or a gixxer. We didn't buy them because they're flashy. We bought them because they make sense (from both a fun and practical POV). It's that vary type of rational though process that helps one be a safe rider.

So my final thought is this: new riders need mentoring. They need positive, responsible, experienced, and open minded riders to help them start out right. I did, and I'm very grateful for it. These folks made sure I never turned squid on them, but pushed me to progress in a safe (but fun) manner. I also recommend that all new riders take the MSF course. I did, and I enjoyed it. It helped me learn proper techniques and drop bad habits that I was learning on the road (with my permit).

 

[Rob2222]

OK, more information for the limiter kits ...

The original Yamaha limiter kit is called: KIT-FZ6RJ-72-25. Maybe you can even order this at your Yamaha dealer with this code.
If not, you can order this kit at: Neubert Racing Shop , just enter the part Number. This kit is a combination of a throttle-movement-limiter and a changed throttle-cable-disc.
This are 2 really small parts, shipping should not be expensive, I think.

Another big limiter vendor here in Germany is: alpha Technik
The FZ6 limiter kit to 25kW is here: 05-RJ14-K25
alpha Technik - 05-RJ14-K25
Costs are 105 Euro.
This kit is just a throttle-movement-limiter.

I think you can mail both shops in english if you wanna get one.
If you really encounter a unresolvable problem during the language, you can PM me, and I try to help.


I just can say that it is a really good thing for new riders and I am happy that I was forced to this for 2 years. You have to get experience by driving. And you _WILL_ encounter difficult situations. And as more power you get, that more difficult the most of these situations will be to handle. And if youre young, you WILL use all the power you have in some situations.

BR Robert

 

[NineseveN]

OK, more information for the limiter kits ...

The original Yamaha limiter kit is called: KIT-FZ6RJ-72-25. Maybe you can even order this at your Yamaha dealer with this code.
If not, you can order this kit at: Neubert Racing Shop , just enter the part Number. This kit is a combination of a throttle-movement-limiter and a changed throttle-cable-disc.
This are 2 really small parts, shipping should not be expensive, I think.

Another big limiter vendor here in Germany is: alpha Technik
The FZ6 limiter kit to 25kW is here: 05-RJ14-K25
alpha Technik - 05-RJ14-K25
Costs are 105 Euro.
This kit is just a throttle-movement-limiter.

I think you can mail both shops in english if you wanna get one.
If you really encounter a unresolvable problem during the language, you can PM me, and I try to help.


I just can say that it is a really good thing for new riders and I am happy that I was forced to this for 2 years. You have to get experience by driving. And you _WILL_ encounter difficult situations. And as more power you get, that more difficult the most of these situations will be to handle. And if youre young, you WILL use all the power you have in some situations.

BR Robert

You rock! That's the first decent answer to the where/how to get a detune/limiter kit I've seen. I hope future new guys will be pointed to this post for information on where they might start to look.

The question still hangs though, at $105EUR ($141.00 US), why is that throttle-movement limiter better to have than the Dyna rev limiter I linked to earlier? Anyone have any thoughts? Limiting the bike to 7k or even 8k revs is pretty much clipping its wings out of the danger zone for most responsible people, right? In theory, one might actually get better/longer use out of the rev limiter. We're still left with the question of how to get folks to use these for a season or two while they learn.

Ignoring height/weight issues, limiting the power on a bike like the FZ6 through either method doesn't seem like a bad play to make for a new rider, especially those that are going to get one even if they're warned/told not to.

Great info, thanks for sharing it.

 

[Rob2222]

With 7-8k you still have 55-70hp.
With the limiter kit you really have 34hp but the whole rev band until 14k.

BTW the Yamaha throttle-movement-limiter kit only costs 70 Euro in the shop posted above.

BR
Robert

 

[NineseveN]

With 7-8k you still have 55-70hp.

Right, which puts it in the league of the Ninja 500, Ninja 650r and FZ6r, all of which are generally considered suitable beginner bikes for individuals with a little experience on two wheels, and sometimes even for those that don't.

With the limiter kit you really have 34hp but the whole rev band until 14k.

Which keeps the power in line with the Ninja 250, an excellent starter bike, though the FZ6 is a lot bigger and heavier than the 250.


I'm still envisioning a rev limiter being more useful if they work the way they seem. You could limit the revs to 5k and keep it in a very respectable area for a while, then move up to 6-7k and then after some time, go from there instead of going straight from 34hp to 98hp with the limiter kits you listed (which are still excellent ideas BTW). An increase of more than 60 ponies is quite a jump in power.I don't know if having the full 14k rev band is all that important on a 34hp machine of the FZ6's weight with a true beginner behind the bars. I could be wrong though.

 

[gstephen70]

After reading sportrider's entire article, I wanted to share my experience and my two cents as well. As with anything else in life, we must make an informed, educated decision with regard to the level of performance of our first bike. All the advice in the world will never translate to real world, on the bike experience.

I purchased a Honda Shadow for my first bike. Having no previous experience other than the MSF course, I chose the 750cc Shadow as I was comfortable with the bike's weight and performance. I have ridden the Shadow for two seasons learning all along the way. I have had a few close calls that I chalk up to my inexperience as a new rider. Mind you, these were nothing more than close calls as I still ride with a good deal of caution and a great respect for the machine. Just recently, with 4,000 miles on the ODO, I feel as if I have become comfortable riding. It is slowly becoming second nature. I purchased a used 2009 FZ6 yesterday after being blown away at how well this bike performs (and the great info provided on this forum). Would I have purchased this bike for my first? Probably not. Does this mean you shouldn't. I cannot say. Only you can answer that question.

If I may impress upon you, respect your machine, always accept your limitations, and most importantly, do not show off. You may just die doing so. It isn't worth your life. I know. I have friends that are no longer with us for that reason.

Ride safe and enjoy the view along the way. We ride for the journey, not the destination.

 

[JustinID]

My comments below probably won't add much to the thread, but more of me just "talking" out loud.

I read the entire thing, and rather enjoyed it. It made me a little embarrassed as I fit into a couple of categories. I'm a new rider and my 2005 FZ6 is my first bike. I had 0 experience driving a street bike and one solid day on a dirt bike a couple years ago. Other than that, I've logged a fair number of miles as a passenger. So... very inexperienced (practically unexperienced).

I picked this bike based off advice from some local friends. I think their advice was good, and I hope I'm ok with what I have. I'm aware that more of the problems (responsible) motorcyclists run into (much like bicyclists) don't necessarily come from themselves, but from what goes on around them. Situational awareness is so incredibly important when you are difficult to see, not surrounded by a bunch of sheet metal, and balanced on two wheels. To that end, my first couple of rides so far have mostly been on my local residential streets going around 15-22 MPH. I'm taking the time to learn how the bike responds with the advantage of nearly zero traffic. Riding in a straight line, working through gears, is trivial, so my my focus is on understanding how to turn (since this is what you can't learn in a car, and a bicycle only gives you a hint of what to expect) and how to stop. I'm taking it slow. I'm focusing mainly on one thing at a time. I'm listening to the advice and instructions given to me by experienced riders. I'm reading up on safety and technique. I'm not being afraid of the bike, but I'm giving it a HUGE bit of respect. I know it can hurt me... badly. I know it can kill me. I know it's up to me to make sure that doesn't happen.

One of the things that was interesting in the article was talking about racing cars. There's one of the parts that I line up with. I don't race every weekend, but about a dozen times a year I'll do autocross (it's precision driving around cones in a parking lot, typical speeds are in the 30-40s and tops speeds are 50-70). I race in a '99 TransAm. That has about 360 HP and over 370 lb-ft of torque in a 3600 pound package. That puts my new bike at about 70% higher power to weight ratio, but substantially lower torque to weight ratio. My car runs the 1/4 mile only a little slower (mid-12s) than my bike does. I've also raced in a handful of Corvettes, so I know what a mid-12 second car feels like. So I've experienced high acceleration and high gs. I know what it feels like when traction starts to give out and what it feels like when it completely fails. Unfortunately, all that experience is in the safe environment of 4 wheels, where the worst that happens is a spin out on course. Does any of this make me more qualified to drive a higher HP motorcycle? Probably not. But it has helped me to get through that phase in my life where everything has to be about going fast (being 37 probably helps too).

I think (or at least I hope) that one of the keys that makes an inexperienced rider successful with this type of bike isn't saying that they are responsible and mature, but actually being that. It's about having respect for the bike. It's about KNOWING you lack the skills and experience to drive it well. It's about taking your time to learn (not just in a one weekend class, but over months) and not pushing the boundaries. I have the rest of my life to go faster, today I'm going to go slow.

FWIW, I am signed up for one of the local basic rider courses, but they are booked pretty solid this time of year. It'll be a month before I get in. Until then, I'll be practicing the basics in light traffic, on roads that I know well, at lower speeds, and paying respect to the tool I wield.

Assuming I do well at this and my bike turns out to be a great first one, don't believe that I will come back and say that it's a great first bike or that anything posted here was wrong. You have me convinced that most people (probably myself included) should be starting on a less powerful bike. And people that use excuses about how they started with a 600cc sport bike because they need to impress their friends... they're the ones that should be pushed the hardest into an easier bike. Don't try to impress anyone... except maybe your parents by showing them how responsible you really can be. A bike, like a car, is a vehicle (both having the potential to be deadly). It's not a toy.

 

[Hobbesca]

As some one who did just pick up a FZ6 as my first bike I agree with what has been said, but at the same time we just put a guy back together who wiped out on a ninja 250.

This was a guy who bought a small bike and in an effort to be cool, went well beyond his skills, no matter what you have, you can get in trouble. I myself have toured my very quiet nieghbourhood, with full gear on going no faster than 15kms, learning the clutch and brake control. But i will not hit public streets until i have completed the MSC here, which is 2 weeks away for me.

Hurts to wait, but i have been at a ton of accident scenes. completing the safety courses and learning at your own pace and not making bad choices are the key.

I have to say this site was a real find for me, a ton of great info.

 

[Drinky]

I realy doubt the majority of fatal accidents is because a bike has too much power.
The person who rode it just made a fatal mistake, the same mistake he would make on a GS500. The GS500 was never sold with ABS. The FZ6 is. So the FZ6 is a safer beginners bike. Most drops while riding occur because the driver got spooked and nailed the brakes.
With ABS nothing happens besides the bike shaking a bit. THe GS500 can slip out under you because of teh wheels blocking.

Pretty much every motorcycle is faster than any average car. So you might as well kill yourself on a 250cc ninja, as you would on a 1000cc ninja. Proper throttle control is the only thing that matters regarding power.

Falling because you went into a turn too fast can easily be done on any low cc bike..

Small addition: I agree though. A 1000CC machine is potentially more dangerous, and the article is a good answer to people who look on the internet for an answer to the question.
BUT: They shouldn't be looking on the internet for an answer to that question. They should ask themselves, am i resposible enough to handle the power a 600-1000cc gives me??

 

[AlisVolatPropiis]

Wow! I loved this article...and I am NOT ASHAMED to admit that I started on a 2001 Ninja 250, 3rd owner. So glad I did for just about every point mentioned by the original poster. Now, after about 5 months of riding the Ninja (including taking the Intermediate MSF course on her) and then borrowing my husband's '05 FZ6 (2nd owner) for about a year (AND taking the Keith Code California Superbike School on his FZ6), I am now the proud owner (safe and comfortable) of my OWN '09 FZ6. Enjoy the pic of my "first love" ...the Ninja. And my new baby, the '09 FZ6.

 

[bogdani0405]

Hi,

I agree totally with your article. I started on a '96 Suzuki RF, and I've "shaken asphalt's hand", but on that bike I learned to BRAKE, to really know how to use the brakes. It's correct, Abs is good, but you might let yourself to the hand of technology and that's not good at all. Here in Romania there is a saying, there are two kind of riders in this world... riders who already hit the ground, and there are riders who are going to hit the ground.

It's better to do it sooner at lower speeds than later at high speeds

Asfalt uscat

 

[Wh0M3]

Thanks for the article, I finnally read it all the way through. Now I understand more about choosing a starting bike and it has changed the way I look at it.

 

[Smersh]

Great Article! I wish i read it when I was in a market for my first bike.
Here is my 2 cents:

I'm 6'3 and weighed in at 230 lbs at the time. I'd done some research and also wanted to get something in 600+ sport category. Interestingly enough, i even had one dealer tell me that 250cc would be too small for me even though I actually fit ok on Ninja. (It was the same dealership I saw a 18 year-old kid with sparkle in his eyes that can only mean "first motorcycle" pick up a brand new Duc 848)

After a little bit of thinking and checking what insurance would cost me, I went out and.... bought KLR 650 aka The Tractor. Yes, it's a 600+ cc engine, but check the specs - it's not a sports bike. It provides a great posture - can ride it day in and day out and laughs at potholes (which is important as you are learning to ride) Now, that baby pushes out somewhere around 40hp, while FZ6 puts 90-something, that's twice the power with 30% weight increase. And in the beginning I made A LOT of mistakes, but because a roll on a throttle didnt cause this bike to lift the front wheel, I didnt find myself pinned to a tree or thrown off.

Fast forward 2 years, 6,000 miles, one fall due to rear wheel lock out, one deer encounter at 20-something mph and countless close calls - I finally figured I can try something more powerful (primarily to accommodate the two-up touring), and after much research a used 04 FZ6 was my choice. And you know what, I am worried about my riding skills! When I picked up the bike from the seller, I found myself over the 80 mph way too quickly. If somebody were to gift me Aprilia RSV4 Factory right now, I would probably sell it or keep it unregistered - I do not believe my riding skills match this pinnacle of racing technology

So, think about this - you wouldn't start learning how to drive on Ferrari Enzo or Bugatti Veyron. Maybe it makes sense to think long-term, save money, save skin and invest into the riding skills?

 

[rchamberlain]

Excellent. I rode when I was in my twenties and when I got married and had kids my wife didn't want me to have a bike. When the last one graduated from high school I re-entered the sport on my FZ6. 600cc sportbikes are not a beginner's bike. They are race bikes with turn signals. For my kids that want to ride and look cool, I would recommend the 250 Ninja (90% of the people who look at it won't know it from a 600). Thanks for the read.