planning on making a cafe racer... looking to bounce some ideas/get some input

[krid80]

cx500's have no right to look this good!
Over here they are looked on as dispatch rider hacks, most of them get ridden into the ground.

lol! Agreed!

 

[LERecords]

well.. when it is finally done, its going to look bad-ass!!! :thumbup:

and the cost of the bike was $40??? crazzy, but what a great price..

 

[dean owens]

bikes #1 and 4 get my votes for the nicest representations.

agreed

The exhaust of bike #4 is very nice although the header wrap is a little rough-looking compared to the nice work on everything else, I think a smooth ceramic coating would look the best.

i'm still trying to put the bike together in my head. and i'm still torn on the exhaust. right now i'm leaning towards wrapping and painting the wrapping black. we'll see how good i do with the exhaust and what the coast of getting it coated is.

I am not sold on the undertail, unless maybe you integrate the outlets into the bodywork. I saw a bike recently (a Formula450 trackbike) that had a slick integrated undertail.

i like undertail exhausts but i don't like his execution of it. i give him credit for being the first i've seen to do it, but it could have been done better.

what i'm looking at doing (as of right now) is to bring it to one pipe on the throttle side and run it up where he had his that'll split to two at the tail. but if i do it i wanted to have it more integrated into the tail section and have the plate below it ... much like how the fz6 is set up.

my biggest hurdle at this point is what i don't know. i won't want to essentially have straight pipes routed through the rear. i'm not a fan of obnoxious noise levels. but i don't know what sorta options i have. i've wondered if'd be possible to have a muffler under the seat and then have straight pipes coming out of the rear (much like i think of a car). or i could maybe build two slip ons like the JET system . my issue would be the tips. i can't make 'em. it'd be nice if i could buy some tips somewhere.

regardless. if i do it, i want to do it so that it looks like it came that way.

 

[dean owens]

Seems to me, you should be able to find a set of FZ6 forks around here.... it'd be pretty cool to splice on the whole front end, and it would be worlds more stiff than what's on the CX now. Anyone who went to the R6 setup should have some bits collecting dust....

i love the idea. there are a few issues though. one is i really want it to look right. it would look funny with an fz front wheel. it'd be better, but look funny. plus, i'd probably have to do some work to get the tree to fit. that might be above my skill level at this point. although i am trying to think how i can get a better braking system.

I'm all for lightening this thing as much as you can, and bringing the suspension and brakes up to date.

:thumbup:

As far as the fuel tank, it's possible that a local metal smith could split the tank,... If the air box is under the tank, removing that cavity and putting a flat bottom on the tank would add more than the 3" wider would do.

first, the tank isn't so much about fuel as it is the look. and the tank has a "cavity" on each side. the coils are strapped to the backbone under the tank. this makes it pretty hard to find a tank that'll fit easily from other bikes.

 

[Binks33]

:BLAA: looks like a fun project.

 

[dean owens]

so updates are slow coming because i'm waiting on the paperwork before i really get started with this.

updates i do have...
found someone locally who was able to help me out with some parts i was looking for.

first, i got a deluxe tank. that's the boxier tank that looks more cafe.

second, i got a gl500 front end (plus another rotor). it's not a modern front end, but it's better than what i had. the forks are only slightly larger (35mm rather than 33mm) but there are a number of advantages.
- this front end is a drop in replacement so i don't have to worry about tracking down bearings that will fit or get things machined.
- my gauges mount right up - should i decide to use them.
- i will be able to use my stock front wheel (so it'll match the rear wheel) and just bolt up the new rotor.
- most importantly, this will take me from a single piston one caliper system to a dual piston two caliper system. this will provide much better braking.

i also got a set of clubmans from dirk here on the board. i've fitted them on the stock setup and they felt good. i'm assuming they'll be good on the gl500 tree. thanks dirk.


i'm itching to get started on this. it's giving me a lot of time to think about it though. i'm now toying with doing a "beull" type exhaust. i'd still like to figure out how to do an undertail well, but i think an under-engine can might be the easiest. i just have to make sure i get (or make) something small enough to not screwup ground clearance.

well, until next time....

 

[cap'n]

Sorry I'm late to this - you just covered the first of the 2 things I was going to say, which is that the tank is KEY. No matter what this will be a lot of work, and take a little while, and if you'd tried to use that teardrop cruiser tank to save money... it would've been a cop-out esthetically. The tank and the seat are about 75% of the "look." Get those wrong and none of the rest matters.

So the seat... I'm not a big fan of the 2-up all cushion options, really. Having a padded foam "hump" behind you still looks like a big mushy seat, unless you pull a Thruxton and have a cover for it. To really nail that look, it should probably be a solo job.

Have you found any good direct-replacement options for the rear shocks yet? My buddy has a bonneville, and read on the forums about how the stock shocks from a kawi ZRX1100/1200 would bolt right on, and they're light years better (KYB's, tons of adjustments). It made a HUGE difference in the ride quality, especially in hard turns... no more waggling rear end.

 

[dean owens]

... the tank is KEY. ... if you'd tried to use that teardrop cruiser tank to save money... it would've been a cop-out esthetically. The tank and the seat are about 75% of the "look." Get those wrong and none of the rest matters.

i agree that they tank and seat are very key in the look. i really wanted to use the stock tank if i thought i could make it work. i've seen other cafes that had similar tanks that made it work well. but those tanks weren't as "drastic" in their teardrop shape.

So the seat... I'm not a big fan of the 2-up all cushion options, really. Having a padded foam "hump" behind you still looks like a big mushy seat, unless you pull a Thruxton and have a cover for it. To really nail that look, it should probably be a solo job.

yeah, when i started think of this a while ago i thought about making it so that it had the look but could still carry someone on the back if i wanted. but now i'm going solo seat and plan on cutting off the passenger peg mounts. no need to have that extra weight if nothing's going to be bolted there.

only "problem" with the seat is my frame has a nice little dip in it. i've seen others use pre-made pans but their fixes to make them work have never looked great to me. so i'll be making my own.

Have you found any good direct-replacement options for the rear shocks yet?

on the cx forum many are fans of sportster shocks. i'v looked around but haven't found anything that i like in terms of price and look. that'll be one of my last things to get so right now i'm just looking around. but i do plan on getting something better.

 

[dean owens]

so it's time for some updates. it's been a while since i've been here, but i've been doing some things. part of that is continuing to slowly work on this project.

first things first, i ran into a roadblock with my frame. dmv has to have a title to attach a lean-release to. since i don't have a title they can't release the lean. since there's a lean, i can't get my friend in MI to get me a title. i haven't given up hope for that frame... just moving on to a different frame for this project.

so i found someone in VA that had a frame. still no title, but at least a frame without a lean. i drove up and it turns out he's a member of the cx forum i frequent. he hooked me up with all sorts of extra stuff. made my wife real happy to see how loaded the back of my truck was with "junk" when i got home. here is the frame as i got it from him.

and here is where it sits now... waiting for me to strip it and paint it.

as i said before, i picked up a gl500 front end. here's the pic of it with the clubmans i got from dirk.

i've also been trying to think about what i would do for the exhaust. i think based on everything i have to do i'm going to keep it somewhat simple. i'm going to go 2-1-2. but i need to do it on the cheap. so i started looking around for some sportster cans. i wasn't finding any locally. but i spotted a softail exhaust system on craigslist for $30.00. i think the cans are a smidge bigger than the sportster cans i wanted, but they'll do.

since i know nothing about the engine i plan on using, i'm doing a complete tear down and rebuild. first time ever venturing into this territory for me. so i got a complete gasket/o-ring kit to help me out. this part will take a while.

the last thing that has been bought. it's so far the most expensive (and i hope the only expensive part) of this project. anyone have a clue what it might be?

still no pic of my gas tank. i'll get that in the future.

well, i have more, but i'll break here for your viewing pleasure.

 

[LERecords]

the last thing that has been bought. it's so far the most expensive (and i hope the only expensive part) of this project. anyone have a clue what it might be?

could it be a new ecu??? or something for the speedo and headlight???

 

[dean owens]

next on the list was to figure out where i was going to do this engine rebuild. there's a guy at my church who is a retired mechanic who said i could use his shop and tools. i was pretty excited about that (being that i've never done this)... but that fell through. i have a little 8x8 shed, but it doesn't have any lighting and is full of other things already. so what was i to do....











:eyebrow:











:don'tknow:





:sinister:











i got it.




and the moment you've all been waiting for... my workbench/shop. brace yourselves for the shear wonder and beauty of my shop.

from a distance

the shop during non-shop hours

and lastly, an up close image

i'll introduce you to the engines starting top left and work my way clockwise.
--- upper left is the engine i'm hoping will work out for me.

--- upper right is an engine i've had for a while that is locked up and i don't know why. hopefully i won't need to crack it opened for this project. but curiosity is getting the better of me and i'm starting to wonder why it's locked up. i'm thinking for the fun of it i might try and free it up.

--- bottom right is part of a cx500 engine. i'm not sure there is anything there for me to worry about, but i'm not going to get rid of it until i have my engine up and running.

--- bottom left is actually a gl500 engine. there are differences so i can't just go swapping parts. but there are many similarities should i need to start investigating.


that's all for this post. too many pictures.

 

[dean owens]

could it be a new ecu??? or something for the speedo and headlight???

kinda close. but you're thinking of newer technology when you need to be thinking of what would be on a 78-81 honda.

 

[dean owens]

ok... last update post for tonight.


here's a pic showing how far i've gotten with the engine.

i have the valve covers, radiator and thermostat off. i had to stop there for two reasons. 1 - i need to get a bolt to act as a fan puller to get the fan off. 2 - i got all the bolts holding the heads on out... but my heads won't budge. i know there are no other bolts holding them down. i went out and got a rubber tipped hammer that i plan on using to knock them free. is that a bad idea? is there a better method?

you might be wondering what i'm doing to keep dust and dirt off of/out of my engine while working on it. i do have a tarp, but at this point this is the best solution i have. i plan on going and buying some little containers for parts as i start taking them off to help keep everything organized.

and lastly, a look under the valve covers

since i'm taking this apart, i'm assuming it'd be a good thing to clean little things like this. would i just clean them in something like gas or kerosene... or is there some sort of cleaner i should be using? someone has suggested that white vinegar or used brake fluid is a pretty good cleaner for stuff like this.

the last thing to add... i'm taking a welding class at the community college and i'm planning on building my battery box there and possibly taking in my frame for a few things here and there if we can move along fast enough in the class.

not sure when i'll get to do some more updates. i got a lot going on right now. hopefully i'll get a chance to work on it in another week or two.

 

[dean owens]

no other guesses?

the last thing that has been bought. it's so far the most expensive (and i hope the only expensive part) of this project. anyone have a clue what it might be?

 

[krid80]

no other guesses?

That the cdi box, right?

 

[dean owens]

That the cdi box, right?

ding ding ding. we have a winner. it killed me to have to buy one, but it's good insurance. hopefully when i get my bike up and running, i'll discover that the two "stock" cdis i have are good. if so, i won't be out any money on it.

 

[Wavex]

Wow Dean you're not taking any shortcuts on this one, awesome!

Please keep this thread as documented as possible with as many pics as you can...

Love these build threads :thumbup:

 

[joe1971]

I think I'm going to end up doing that to this one

This bike was actually given to me, barely ran, forks pissin oil, tires where just dangerous, rear shocks where reminiscent to an older cadi, but hey it's safe to ride now. When I mentioned turning it into a cafe racer my wife was all "I'LL RIDE IT!!!!!!":thumbup:

 

[dean owens]

thanks david. i hope i don't regret it. but it was... well, i don't really want to do all this work and have my frame look like pooh. alright, i'll strip her down. well, if i have the engine out i might as well check the things that are known to go wrong with it. well if i'm going to do all that i might as well replace all the gaskets and o-rings. hmmmm, i've never rebuilt an engine. this shouldn't be that hard.


joe, you should so do it. it seems you have the same problem i have with a frame that takes a dip so you'll have to get creative with the seat. but it'll be a little easier for you to capture "the look" with an inline engine. plus, having the bike be chain driven you are more opened to swapping rims.

i wish my wife liked cafes. i've found maybe one or two that she's liked so far. i think i'd have more luck getting her on it if i were to build a bobber. is that possibly the future of the bike at the beginning of this thread if i ever get the title info worked out? hmmmmm.

 

[dean owens]

and this would be why i'm ripping into the engine. :jawdrop:

underside of the heads/valves.

i'd say i have some carbon build up. i'm guessing i'll be taking the valves out and cleaning that all up.

the tops of the pistons and inside the cylinders ain't that pretty either.
right side sitting on the bike.

left side sitting on the bike. yummmm, milkshake. *said in the voice of homer simpson*

i'd love to say i've seen worse, but since this is my first engine rebuild, i got nothing to compare it to. i know i was hoping for better. i was also hoping to get the rear cover of so i could see if the cam chain had eaten any of the engine away. but the only 8mm socket i have is junk. i'll have to go out and get one. i guess it's enough for now.