Pakistan gives China access to Downed US "stealth copter"

[dxh24]

Anybody see any good reason to continue sending these people billions a year and try and "improve relations" with them?!

"Pakistan still considers China to be a more reliable ally then the US...."

Pakistan let China see crashed U.S. stealth copter | Reuters

Not really sure why we consider Pakistan our "ally", can anyone point me in the right direction on that?

 

[Nelly]

Anybody see any good reason to continue sending these people billions a year and try and "improve relations" with them?!

"Pakistan still considers China to be a more reliable ally then the US...."

Pakistan let China see crashed U.S. stealth copter | Reuters

Not really sure why we consider Pakistan our "ally", can anyone point me in the right direction on that?

Do you really think this is China's first real look at the bird?
Why didn't the military destroy it instead of abandoning it?
Major lack of judgement if you ask me.

Nelly

 

[dxh24]

I believe they tried, but were in a hurry due to the raid, i believe there was a good chunk of tail section that survived iirc.

Completely agree though, they had time to rush Bin laden to a a Aircraft carrier and dump him in the sea but didn't have time to go back and clean up the remains of the Top Secret copter? Think we need to get our priorities straight...

 

[Humperdinkel]

In all honesty , the helicopter was only an old school UH-60 Blackhawk that had be 'upgraded' to be called stealth... What it has inside is nothing that the chinese dont have or already know about , believe it or not the chinese do have some 'state of the art' technology that will match it with anything anywhere in the world :thumbup:

 

[Nelly]

I believe they tried, but were in a hurry due to the raid, i believe there was a good chunk of tail section that survived iirc.

Completely agree though, they had time to rush Bin laden to a a Aircraft carrier and dump him in the sea but didn't have time to go back and clean up the remains of the Top Secret copter? Think we need to get our priorities straight...

The relationship with Pakistan will certainly be tested. I think we can all assume that as soon as Afghanistan is off the agenda. Diplomatic relations will be cooler than a bogie on penguins beak.

Nelly

 

[dxh24]

In all honesty , the helicopter was only an old school UH-60 Blackhawk that had be 'upgraded' to be called stealth... What it has inside is nothing that the chinese dont have or already know about , believe it or not the chinese do have some 'state of the art' technology that will match it with anything anywhere in the world :thumbup:

I'm not doubting that at all, but if they knew about the stealth bit of it they wouldn't have cared to see it would they?

And it's not even the Chinese getting a look at our stuff that bothers me... It's that we send these "allies" billions each year to "improve relations"

Why should we improve relations with a country who is in China's pocket?

 

[Nelly]

I'm not doubting that at all, but if they knew about the stealth bit of it they wouldn't have cared to see it would they?

And it's not even the Chinese getting a look at our stuff that bothers me... It's that we send these "allies" billions each year to "improve relations"

Why should we improve relations with a country who is in China's pocket?

The majority of the western countries are in China's pocket now. What they [China] don't own with regard to economical & commercial infrastructure is probably not worth owning.
The reality is, that China now plays a key role in helping us ride out this global mess.

Nelly

 

[Humperdinkel]

The majority of the western countries are in China's pocket now. What they [China] don't own with regard to economical & commercial infrastructure is probably not worth owning.
The reality is, that China now plays a key role in helping us ride out this global mess.

Nelly

And that just about sums it all up :thumbup:

Australia send billions of $$$ to under developed nations every year as well , unfortunately thats the way the cookie crumbles but i've been told by an economist that if the western world didnt do this then the world society would self destruct

 

[Motogiro]

In all honesty , the helicopter was only an old school UH-60 Blackhawk that had be 'upgraded' to be called stealth... What it has inside is nothing that the chinese dont have or already know about , believe it or not the chinese do have some 'state of the art' technology that will match it with anything anywhere in the world :thumbup:

Yeah and the circuit boards in it were prolly Chinese anyway! :rof:

 

[Kaisersoze]

China needs very little from us in terms of military tech, or any tech for that matter. The U.S. is suffering its worst drought of engineers and scientists in recent decades and we refuse to invest in future technologies--besides big pharma. You wanna be mad about something? Be mad about having to give working visa to Chinese, Pakistani, Indian, etc..etc.. nationals because we have to import the scientists and engineers that sustain our military-industrial complex. We build aircraft carriers and next gen fighters, china builds stealth missiles that sink aircraft carriers in a single hit (google it) and focuses on cyber-warfare. Rant over. LOL

 

[Hellgate]

In all honesty , the helicopter was only an old school UH-60 Blackhawk that had be 'upgraded' to be called stealth... What it has inside is nothing that the chinese dont have or already know about , believe it or not the chinese do have some 'state of the art' technology that will match it with anything anywhere in the world :thumbup:

It may have been a heavily modded UH60, but to say that China has weapons systems on par with the West is flat wrong.

China has a large "Army" that is pretty much well rooted in the 1960's. They lack the ability to project power. They lack the capability to lift forces to Taiwan.

Prior to Desert Storm everyone feared the Soviet T72 tank, well that turned out being total a POS and died by the thousands. On the other hand we learned in the battlefield that the M1 was way better than we thought. In subsequent years the M1 became the M1A1, the M1A2, M1A2 SEP, M1A2D, now the M1 improvement program is in place. These improvement packages brought better armor, weapons, targeting and communication systems. I guarantee that no Chinese made tank can do what these can, be as reliable, protect the crew, and kill as well in battle.

But the most important part of any military is the Soldier. No eastern forces are trained as well as the major western powers.

 

[Hellgate]

I believe they tried, but were in a hurry due to the raid, i believe there was a good chunk of tail section that survived iirc.

Completely agree though, they had time to rush Bin laden to a a Aircraft carrier and dump him in the sea but didn't have time to go back and clean up the remains of the Top Secret copter? Think we need to get our priorities straight...

Think about it, they drop in, the bird goes down, they execute the mission, pile onto the remaining birds and complete the mission. The mission is to get BL out. By the time a team is launched to get back to the crash site it will be flooded with civilians. The team that plucked BL would not be the team to either frag or recover the bird. The Command most likely determined it was too risky to send another team in without the benefit of surprise vs. burning the hull.

The priority is to get BL, and the the team and any injured out safely.

 

[dxh24]

So nobody else is upset with Pakistan for all this? The more and more crap i see out of pakistan the more i'm prone to believe they knew where BL was the whole time, they basically housed him. Nobody else thinks it's BS we're giving them cash to use against us? I could care less what China does, we know they aren't on our "friendly terms" list, but to pretend an obivous enemy is our friend is retarded.... I'm getting pretty sick of the new world order of "IT MUST BE POLITICALLY CORRECT" -cut off funding to Pakistan and we must be racists right?
/endrant

 

[Kazza]

I think "our" side would do the same thing.

As for Pakistan being our "ally" , I think we would rather them be 1/2 an ally than an enemy. We truly have no idea who actually has the power with weapons these days. It's not black and white like the cold war days. East V West. The line is now unclear.

The real enemies are the politicians - always have been, always will be.

 

[Kaisersoze]

If you want to talk about the whole "giving Pakistan money" situation from an objective perspective, I believe we can have that discussion and agree that any country in our situation would be foolish to do that: save the fact that we cant fight in Afghanistan without bring supplies through Pakistan. However, if we are approaching it from the standpoint that America is exceptional in some way and it is "degrading" to do this as Americans, we might have a difference of opinion. Americans are coddled by our media and we are always ignorant of the way in which our influence in the world effects others. That's not to say that it's wrong to be nationalistic, not at all. I love my country and I want to serve in the military when I get done with medical school. But I am going to be realistic about what America is. We are a capitalist country and in order to be in a capitalist society, in a world with finite resources, somebody has to lose (i.e. someone has to be exploited). This is also the reason I believe we need to keep our edge in the world and not lose ground to other more "hungry" countries in the areas that are important. I don't think, if we are being honest with ourselves, that American policy makers (and a large swath of the public included) are as committed to the sacrifice it would take to break with the status-quo and truly invest in education, manufacturing, technology, and governmental transparency. So if you want to be upset about something then write your congressperson about raising the trade tariffs to protect our manufacturing (we have lowest tariffs of any modern economy) and tell them to do something about other countries that devalue their currency *cough* China *cough* in order to provide cheap materials and a cheap labor force to bleed us dry. /rantend

 

[dxh24]

I think "our" side would do the same thing.

As for Pakistan being our "ally" , I think we would rather them be 1/2 an ally than an enemy. We truly have no idea who actually has the power with weapons these days. It's not black and white like the cold war days. East V West. The line is now unclear.

The real enemies are the politicians - always have been, always will be.

Good point, i guess i failed to see it that way, still irritates me that we're sending ANYONE money considering the U.S. economic situation being as bad as it is. +1 politicians are the enemy :thumbup:

 

[Hellgate]

Good point, i guess i failed to see it that way, still irritates me that we're sending ANYONE money considering the U.S. economic situation being as bad as it is. Despite our downgraded credit rating, (may further be downgraded in next 12-18 months) despite job loss, unemployment, growth rates leveling off/declining, jobs moving overseas....Mr Obama would still have us believe we're doing superb, maybe that's what his golf buddies told him ? 100% wholeheartedly agree with you Kazza, Politicians are the enemies :thumbup:

My friend you're on a slippery slope argument. You can't mix ties like that. Pretty soon you'll have UFOs and Elvis linked in.

Right now we are buying Pakistan so we have access to their airspace and territory, pure and simple. Thinking that the US is the only game in town is very narrow thinking. The world is a big place and the US looks to shape it to its advantage.

 

[Kazza]

LOL we deleted the political forum for a reason......

Keep it cool everyone :thumbup:


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[dxh24]

Lol i can see why that would be an issue... Noted, will keep politics out of my posts

 

[stealthyman]

I'd be more prone to believe this is the headline read, "Pakistan sells China access to US stealth helicopter".