OK, I give up; help me start my FZ6

[FloppyRunner]

To make a long story short, there was some drama last weekend but the situation at present:

It's been sitting on the battery tender for a while, but I suppose if the battery is totally screwed, it wouldn't matter anyway, correct? It reads 14.2V or so I believe while on the tender. Voltage from the negative terminal to the terminal on top of the starter is about 12.2 or so with the starter button pressed (relay does click and appears to be working fine). Nothing turns, I just get the relay click and then nothing.

If it were the sidestand or engine cutoff switch, the relay wouldn't click, correct?

Maybe the battery is just far beyond gone, but I'd hate to spend the money only to be stuck where I am now. Or maybe the starter is bad...at 9,XXX miles? Well, time to go to work...

 

[skooter65]

Sounds like a classic dead battery. Just enough of a discharge to activate the solenoid but not enough to turn the starter.

You can always have it tested, but I would be willing to bet that it is new battery time.

 

[Kaisersoze]

From what I can recall when I checked the wiring for ignition, the wires to the starter motor run before the kill switches. So maybe it would crank? But you would definitely not get spark/fuel. Im not 100% sure but I would check the switches anyway.

 

[Motogiro]

If you hear the fuel pump prime and the readout self checks the kill switch is working. The kill switch passes current the ignition coil primaries the ground side the the coil primaries go to the ECU which sees a logic high and then let's operates fuel pump etc.

It does sound like your battery is toast. You can show full voltage but have bad depth of charge and the battery will not deliver proper amount of current.

After a complete charge, if you watch the voltage on the battery while you hit the starter the battery voltage will drop very low. This is an indication the battery is probably bad.

A sure way to know what is happening with your battery is to get it load tested.
There are a lot of automotive parts stores that will do this for free. Some stores have the newer type testers that only take a few minutes to accomplish the test.

 

[FloppyRunner]

Thank you all. I will let you know what happens. I haven't ridden in a week and a day and I think I'm suffering withdrawal...especially since during that time I washed, polished, waxed, cleaned and lubed the chain and lubed the clutch cable. She's waiting to be ridden!

As a result I'm going to try and get something done today even if it means having a smaller selection of batteries to choose from (if a load test shows that is the problem).

 

[Andz]

Am I just lucky? April 2004 model and still on the original battery.....

 

[FloppyRunner]

Well I'm the third owner of an '07...so I can't really say how it was treated in the past...

 

[ChevyFazer]

push start it, if your battery is tottaly gone the bike will not start if the battery is still "somewhat" good it will run

 

[FloppyRunner]

OK. Gave bump/push start another try and it was successful. Had tried it before but was doing it wrong (I tried to do it in first gear). Went on a 20 mile ride on a freeway at about 70 average and got back to my place. Shut it off and tried to start it. Same "click" and nothing.

This is AFTER a lady at Batteries Plus swore that my battery was good. She tested voltage and did a load test and said that mine had 230 cold cranking amps, or around there.

While I had it out I did notice that it was a Yuasa, but I don't think it was the YT12B-BS that they recommend on their site. It was a "GS" or something; I don't know if that means anything.

Anyway, I didn't buy the battery at Batteries Plus, so I guess that question we're left with is: How much does it mean that a lady at a battery store says my battery is good? Anyone can test voltage, but should a load test be a pretty accurate indicator?

 

[Audriuss]

OK. Gave bump/push start another try and it was successful. Had tried it before but was doing it wrong (I tried to do it in first gear). Went on a 20 mile ride on a freeway at about 70 average and got back to my place. Shut it off and tried to start it. Same "click" and nothing.

This is AFTER a lady at Batteries Plus swore that my battery was good. She tested voltage and did a load test and said that mine had 230 cold cranking amps, or around there.

While I had it out I did notice that it was a Yuasa, but I don't think it was the YT12B-BS that they recommend on their site. It was a "GS" or something; I don't know if that means anything.

Anyway, I didn't buy the battery at Batteries Plus, so I guess that question we're left with is: How much does it mean that a lady at a battery store says my battery is good? Anyone can test voltage, but should a load test be a pretty accurate indicator?

One thing from expierence on batteries: those tests are worth nothing! Had similar problem with battery in car. It happened to "die" after long driving. Test showed ok a lot of times. But problem existed.

Took advice from guy who instals alarm systems. He said, that it some times occurs, that inside panels of battery, that hold charge, might come lose, and when they touch each other, they discarge battery completely. Test will show ok, unless it would happen at that test moment that discharge.

Changed battery and had no problem so ever since..

 

[RJ2112]

If it will bump start, but will not charge, I'd replace the battery, regardless. Before doing so, however (or in additions to), it would be a good idea to go over every single electrical contact on the bike, and ensure there is no corrosion to degrade the continuity of the connections. It doesn't take much crud to hose things up.

Seattle is not a dry climate, the bike is 5 model years old, if you are not the first owner the history of the bike is an unknown.

 

[ChevyFazer]

sounds like its the starter or maybe sylinod not sure if the bike has them but maybe

 

[Motogiro]

OK. Gave bump/push start another try and it was successful. Had tried it before but was doing it wrong (I tried to do it in first gear). Went on a 20 mile ride on a freeway at about 70 average and got back to my place. Shut it off and tried to start it. Same "click" and nothing.

This is AFTER a lady at Batteries Plus swore that my battery was good. She tested voltage and did a load test and said that mine had 230 cold cranking amps, or around there.

While I had it out I did notice that it was a Yuasa, but I don't think it was the YT12B-BS that they recommend on their site. It was a "GS" or something; I don't know if that means anything.

Anyway, I didn't buy the battery at Batteries Plus, so I guess that question we're left with is: How much does it mean that a lady at a battery store says my battery is good? Anyone can test voltage, but should a load test be a pretty accurate indicator?

If it passed a proper load test and it's behaving the way you're describing, it sounds like you have high resistance at a battery connector. My bet is the load test was done wrong but I would double check both your connections at the battery.
You're consistently having the same issue, so if it's related to depth of charge on the battery the load test should show a failure of the battery and it probably would show a failure as consistently as you've experienced it failing. Another thing that I think of on this is if you had a shorted starter. This could load the battery so hard that there is a very large voltage drop, hence the clicking. Check the wire leading from the battery to the starter. Make sure this wire is also not shorted to the engine.

Here's something you can try. Jump start it from another bike or car. If you jump it from a car, make sure the car motor is off! It's safe when the car motor is off and then won't toast your regulator/rectifier. If the bike cranks and starts then either your battery is bad or it is not charged. If it is not charged then you may have a failed charging system. Regulator/rectifier or stator could be bad.

When the bike is running you should see the voltage of at least 13 vdc at around 2000 rpm and above. Your static voltage (motor off) should be 12.6 and above. When you turn the key on and the fuel pump primes you should see that voltage drop a little but not a lot.

At this point I would have the battery load tested again. Maybe at a different store. If it passes you have another problem.

 

[FinalImpact]

Granted the voltage may be OK during static testing and in RARE occasions sulfated plates can deliver enough energy to pass a load test but ultimately fail to start the engine. I've seen a small knock/hit take these batteries out as the plates are degraded.

IMO: even the best battery tenders are no substitute for being used. Almost all batteries that remain in a fixed state for extended time degrade. High loads of short duration, discharge and charge cycles do keep a battery healthy.

Due to its unknown age and the fact that I hate walking and pushing something that could run, I'd replace it.

 

[FloppyRunner]

Pulled the starter tonight because 1) it's free to do so and 2) it didn't look like TOO big of a PITA. I'll get it apart and examine in the next couple of days; unfortunately I'm pretty busy, which sucks because I have definitely NOT been riding enough...

Anyway, I was hoping I'd have an experience similar to Cali Riders: http://www.600riders.com/forum/garage-mechanical-help/8840-starter-motor-failure-t-s.html

I'll keep you all updated; thanks for the help!

 

[Nelly]

Thank you all. I will let you know what happens. I haven't ridden in a week and a day and I think I'm suffering withdrawal...especially since during that time I washed, polished, waxed, cleaned and lubed the chain and lubed the clutch cable. She's waiting to be ridden!

As a result I'm going to try and get something done today even if it means having a smaller selection of batteries to choose from (if a load test shows that is the problem).

Have you tried the good old bump start option?

Nelly

 

[FloppyRunner]

Yup, bump started it two days ago. Went for a 21 mile ride on the freeway at 70, got back home and shut it off. Tried to start it up again and got the same "click".

 

[mrphotoman]

It sounds like a bad battery to me, I would just buy a new battery before I started taking things apart and "fixing" things.

 

[FloppyRunner]

Thanks, but I think I did indeed find the problem (or at least the symptom of something beyond a bad battery...). The starter was FULL of oil/gunk. I know there's supposed to be a dab of grease, but there was so much oil in this thing I don't know how it WOULDN'T cause a short when fed voltage. Granted I've never opened a starter before, but this seemed unusual. I'd have taken a picture but my camera was out of batteries and I didn't feel like waiting for a charge... I'll at least get a picture of the "clean" components.

I think I'm gonna order a Mitsuba SM-14 (that's the starter brand and model as read on its rear cover) rebuild kit and wait for it to get here. It will cost me about $45. I think I'll assume for now it's a bad o-ring/gasket that let in all the oil/gunk unless anybody's got any better ideas.

Also, the brushes look pretty worn compared to the ones in the Haynes manual... Which is worrisome because it doesn't even have 10,000 miles on it yet...

 

[FinalImpact]

^ Was there grease on the commuter/armature or on the carbon brushes?

I suspect each end of the shaft and the gears would be well packed but you shouldn't find any on the brushes. Also the brushes should be rounded and fit the commuter well and there should be no groves in the commuter.

Yes, take some pictures and be sure to replace the grease with something appropriate for the job.

If you're not going to replace the battery I think I would have opted for jump starting it to confirm you get the same results (car battery & jumper cables).

Lastly, if there was grease in the presence of high current (brushes & commuter), there would be tons of smoke and potential for fire. You never mentioned any this so I suspect the grease is where it belongs????