Need Help No Neutral Light and No current from starter switch

[swigley69]

Do I have a bad neutral safety switch if the neutral light does not come on? Display lights up properly, fuel pump priming occurs, starter works when using a jumper wire, but I have no current to the starter from the starter switch. Any ideas?

 

[trepetti]

What happens if you raise the sidestand and pull in the clutch? Even if the neutral switch is bad, assuming everything else is ok, the engine should crank.

 

[swigley69]

What happens if you raise the sidestand and pull in the clutch? Even if the neutral switch is bad, assuming everything else is ok, the engine should crank.

swigley69
New Member
kickstand up, clutch lever engaged, still in neutral or 1st gear and get nothing with starter switch. I have bypassed the kill switch and still nothing. When I use a jumper wire, the starter engages but no fire or fuel to the cylinders. Starter switch never engages the starter, but I have continuity when checking the switch. Extremely frustrated trying to figure this out. It is my understanding that the rider/owner before me dropped or possibly had a minor wreck...bike was laid over on the clutch side of the bike. All connections look good, fuses (main and accessory are good).

 

[Gary in NJ]

The tip-over sensor may be loose or damaged.

 

[swigley69]

The tip-over sensor may be loose or damaged.

 

[swigley69]

The service manual gives directions on checking it at 65 degree angle, but I'm not sure I doing it right because my readings on volt meter gives a wide range.

 

[swigley69]

When I disconnect the lean angle sensor, fuel pump doesn't prime and then does when I turn the key so based on this I would think the sensor is good. Anybody else got any suggestions? Again, I have no power to the starter when the starter switch is engaged, new battery fully charged, starter turns over very strong when using a jumper wire, I have lights, signals, tail light (high/low, brakes engaged), neutral light doesn't turn on but should not stop the starting circuit when kickstand is up and clutch engaged. I am just baffled.

 

[Motogiro]

If you have no neutral light the starter interrupt/cutoff relay assembly may be keeping the starter relay from operating.
First test the neutral safety switch to see if it is operational. (you did that) You can ground the blue wire to that switch and the neutral light should light. As previously stated you should be able to pull the clutch lever in with the side stand in the up position and get starter operation.
If non of these things work you probably have a bad starter interrupt-cut off relay assembly. It may have blown diode/s. It's located under the left plastic pod. below the seat. It has a 16 pin plug. About $35.
Interesting thing is usually these fail as a result of theft when the ignition switch wires have been cut. Have you ridden this bike? Was it operational when you bought it!

Here: #24 in the parts fiche https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/yam/50045b9bf8700209bc794171/electrical-2

 

[Ben sIII]

i had an issue years ago with my starter button being no good ,i think the button had come off its hinge point a bit on memory had to remount it and clean the contacts and that was it.

 

[Gary in NJ]

i had an issue years ago with my starter button being no good ,i think the button had come off its hinge point a bit on memory had to remount it and clean the contacts and that was it.

And it could be as easy as that. The kill switch on the throttle control is also a known problem area, especially for a bike that is kept outside.

 

[Motogiro]

i had an issue years ago with my starter button being no good ,i think the button had come off its hinge point a bit on memory had to remount it and clean the contacts and that was it.

There is no neutral safety light..... The path for the neutral safety light passes through the unit I've noted earlier. The starter switch also paths through the same unit.

 

[Motogiro]

I also believe the OP said he got a pump prime. The pump won't prime if the kill switch is open. I believe he also jumped the kill switch.

 

[swigley69]

Thank you everyone for your insights and replies. As Motogiro suggested, I grounded the neutral switch and the light comes on so I have ordered the starter cut-off relay. I was unable to check it with my meter, but based on what other electrical functions are known to go through this relay, it certainly sounds like this is the culprit. As I previously stated, I bypassed the kill switch and checked the starter switch (cleaned the contacts and checked continuity as well), both are good. So again knowing the neutral switch also runs through this relay gives me more hope that this is the problem. The relay pin connectors had a lot of wear and discoloring. I used small wire brushes to clean them and still nothing when I reconnected it. I also noticed the housing had some minor damage on one corner, not sure if it was heat related from inside relay, but definitely looks worn.

To answer the other questions, this bike is owned by my girlfriend's nephew and I am interested in buying it. He bought a Harley so it's been sitting a while. He sold it to someone on payments and had to repo it so I don't know what happened while in their possession, but it was running when he got it back. Then it sat for awhile, they cranked it and then it shut off after 30 seconds. They've had no fire since then and have replaced the battery, starter relay (solenoid) and all new fuses. It does appear that someone had messed with the main ignition switch wiring too. I have a new switch to install along with the gas tank lid and seat lock if I do buy it. I had a 2006 gen 1 VMax that I wish I never sold. I will probably buy this bike if I can just get it started and make sure I don't have any internal motor issues. For $900 it's a deal and I'm going through withdrawals to get back riding.

I'll let you know if this solved my problem once the part is delivered. Wish I could just bypass to get it started and keep the fuel flowing without it or without damaging other functions or the ecu itself; going through DT's to ride again .

 

[Motogiro]

Thank you everyone for your insights and replies. As Motogiro suggested, I grounded the neutral switch and the light comes on so I have ordered the starter cut-off relay.

Where did you ground the neutral safety light wire? Have you checked continuity at the neutral safety switch itself without a wire attached to it? Confirm you have a good neutral safety switch. We've seen the same senario with a burned neutral safety because of improper brute current testing that burned the switch.
I'm attaching a quicky schematic of the Starter Interrupt- Cutoff relay assembly that has been discussed numerous times on the forum.
I'm hoping this will help give an idea of how it blocks the starter circuit from operating. The starter interrupt relay in this module must have closed contacts in order for the main starter relay to operate. There are 2 relays in the module. The ECU also monitors the conditions of switching through this module and governs operation of the fuel pump relay.
I hope this drawing helps now and in the future for starting/operating problems. Unfortunately we can't use actual schematics from Yamaha because legal edicts.

 

[swigley69]

Good Morning all!

I apologize for the delay in posting my follow-up to this thread and resolution to my starting issue. Good news, Motogiro, I finally got my new part, the Starter Interrupt - Cut off relay. This was the culprit for not getting any fuel and fire to the cylinders from the starter switch. I have posted a link below to some pics for reference. Also, I do have a bad neutral switch and ordered a new one. Therefore, in order to get the bike started after installing the new cut-off relay, I had to bypass the neutral switch with the clutch engaged and kickstand up. All is good now.

Motogiro, as you mentioned, it appears that the cut-off relay was damaged as a result of someone cutting the wires to the main ignition switch (see pics). I replaced it with a new main ignition switch (had to cut if off because the factory bolts were theft deterrent with no screw head to attach a socket), gas cap and seat release so I could have one key for all. The helmet lock will still use the factory original key since I did not buy this with the set (I rarely use the helmet lock anyway).

To close, thank you for the guidance and assisting me getting this starting issue resolved! I greatly appreciate it.

Link to pics
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FnwERq4-v2e9aEFHL0z4_qpjYJ92rTMF?usp=sharing

 

[Motogiro]

Good Morning all!

I apologize for the delay in posting my follow-up to this thread and resolution to my starting issue. Good news, Motogiro, I finally got my new part, the Starter Interrupt - Cut off relay. This was the culprit for not getting any fuel and fire to the cylinders from the starter switch. I have posted a link below to some pics for reference. Also, I do have a bad neutral switch and ordered a new one. Therefore, in order to get the bike started after installing the new cut-off relay, I had to bypass the neutral switch with the clutch engaged and kickstand up. All is good now.

Motogiro, as you mentioned, it appears that the cut-off relay was damaged as a result of someone cutting the wires to the main ignition switch (see pics). I replaced it with a new main ignition switch (had to cut if off because the factory bolts were theft deterrent with no screw head to attach a socket), gas cap and seat release so I could have one key for all. The helmet lock will still use the factory original key since I did not buy this with the set (I rarely use the helmet lock anyway).

To close, thank you for the guidance and assisting me getting this starting issue resolved! I greatly appreciate it.

Link to pics
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FnwERq4-v2e9aEFHL0z4_qpjYJ92rTMF?usp=sharing

That is so good to hear! Yes it looks like the bike ignition switch was tampered with.
Given the history of the bike I would run the VIN number to see if this bike pops up stolen. When you see this kind of puzzling picture you want to make sure you don't get caught on a stolen vehicle. Friends sister's cousin's uncle's peepaw and cut wires are sometimes enough to throw a flag on the field and be cautious.
Have a great time on a great bike! Wear all the gear all the time!