Need Help Reviving 2004 FZ6 Throwing codes 12, 15, 19

[gulfpete]

Looks like you have made the ECU happy, that's a huge step. Fault #50 would not fire the spark plugs so you're ok there.

Less than a gallon or so in the tank and the fuel meter flashes. I'm guessing as you have been taking the tank off and on that's all you would have in it. You could try it with more fuel but I doubt it will make a difference.

 

[FinalImpact]

Does the pump prime when the key is turned on?
If so, what exactly was replaced inside the pump assembly and was the fuel pressure actually checked? It needs 36psi. Most every bike here that rusted the tank also accumulated debris in the pressure regulator which limits pressure below the required 36#.

Also, once the pump comes on from the initial Key ON, it should time out but power up as soon as the ecu sees the crank spin from CPS input/starter cranking engine.

If the pump is powered, now you should see +12v at the Red/blue trace to the injectors also. And fraction of a second after pushing the starter you should see the RED & GREEN/BLACK trace wires to the injectors go to ground.

This may take an led from battery +12 to either wire to see it happen as the pulse width is narrow and meter or incandescent bulb are to slow to react to see the signal go to ground.

Speaking of; did you ever unplug the ecu and look at the condition of the connectors? All should be shinny gold in color.

Those are my thoughts...
Although what I don't recall is the CEL status when cranking. I think when all is well it stays off but ... ???

 

[Ridn4FunFixn2Ride]

Thanks...I did add more fuel and can hear float move with shake. The flash is the 8 consecutive ..then pause so.. it should be the EFI warning.

 

[Ridn4FunFixn2Ride]

Pump behavior is normal..eg timeout then on when cranking. Did not have method the test pressure just observed flow when active.
I replaced pump motor and tried clean out pressure regulator. Tried to pop the pressure regulator out of the pump housing, but it didn't want to release and I was concerned it would break. I'll look for a replacement on theBay. ECU was my next planned step. My read of the Service Manual indicates that flashing CEL on start indicates EFI fault that disables start.

Thanks for your continued support. It will be a week or so before I can get back to it.

 

[FinalImpact]

In the mean time, order some cheap 12v LEDs. Connect them to the RED or Green - black trace wire of the injector. 1 will do, the postive side of LED goes to +12v battery. When cranking it should pulse on momentarily if the ecu is grounding the injector to fire them. Flashing CEL is not a good sign. I'm thinking error 19 but who knows. And because you saw the inj fire during Diag, you can verify the led pulses on.

As for the PR its just 2 lock tabs to pop out. Use "T" some hose and clamps to pressure test. Use gas as lube on the o-ring to install so it slides and doesn't tear. You could pressure test with a tire pump and air if need be. It should hold air, water, or fuel to 36psi. The PR is controlled fuel leak inside the tank but if it leaks too much, it won't maintain the desired pressure.

 

[gulfpete]

In the mean time, order some cheap 12v LEDs. Connect them to the RED or Green - black trace wire of the injector. 1 will do, the postive side of LED goes to +12v battery. When cranking it should pulse on momentarily if the ecu is grounding the injector to fire them.

What a great idea, I was trying to come up with a way to tell when the decel fuel cut off was kicking in.

I took the above as the fuel meter flashing. CEL would indicate fuel level is not picked up by the display, most likely wiring / connectors.

I would unplug the pump wiring and display wiring and check the green/white wire on both (same wire) for continuity. While disconnected it should be 0 ohms to each other and OL to everything else (all the other pins in the display plug).

 

[FinalImpact]

But the fuel meter is not a show stopping event. The 8 flsshes has nothing to do with CEL Flashing while cranking. The bike doesn't care if the value is present or not for running. Also, the fuel meter output goes to the gauge not the ecu. So its inpit to the ecu is nil.

Let us now what you see with the leds.... could be interesting.

PS buy ones with fastest response time....
And if need be you could use some logic to make a divider or multiplier to see what's happening...

 

[Ridn4FunFixn2Ride]

In the mean time, order some cheap 12v LEDs. Connect them to the RED or Green - black trace wire of the injector. 1 will do, the postive side of LED goes to +12v battery. When cranking it should pulse on momentarily if the ecu is grounding the injector to fire them. Flashing CEL is not a good sign. I'm thinking error 19 but who knows. And because you saw the inj fire during Diag, you can verify the led pulses on.

Excellent advice for LED's .. Re Error 19 if that is the issue shouldn't it show up as fault in Diag?

As for the PR its just 2 lock tabs to pop out. Use "T" some hose and clamps to pressure test. Use gas as lube on the o-ring to install so it slides and doesn't tear. You could pressure test with a tire pump and air if need be. It should hold air, water, or fuel to 36psi. The PR is controlled fuel leak inside the tank but if it leaks too much, it won't maintain the desired pressure.

I popped the lock tabs and retainer off the PR housing but couldn't pull out the PR...If there is just an O-ring holding it in it has become fused and or hardened.. I guess I'll have to use more force?? and likely source the O-ring with a new PR.

Thanks

 

[Ridn4FunFixn2Ride]

I would unplug the pump wiring and display wiring and check the green/white wire on both (same wire) for continuity. While disconnected it should be 0 ohms to each other and OL to everything else (all the other pins in the display plug).

Thanks GulfPete...added to the list
.

 

[FinalImpact]

There is no bike here. Just my gauge, a harness, ecu, and a Dewalt drill spinning a trigger wheel.

Notice RPM, temperature, and fuel level. The later two are fake inputs using resistors.... A simple hack to the meter input...
Yes, upside down but who cares...

PS also faked the tip sensor with a resistor divider...

1) Playing with Trigger:http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...mpact-winter-project-playing-w-trigger-2.html

2) Fuel Pump and gauge:
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...ttery-charging-brake-bleeding.html#post579362

3) Repairing fuel gauge wires: post
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...uel-pump-battery-charging-brake-bleeding.html
good info in here. Links and pictures...

 

[FinalImpact]

Excellent advice for LED's .. Re Error 19 if that is the issue shouldn't it show up as fault in Diag?




I popped the lock tabs and retainer off the PR housing but couldn't pull out the PR...If there is just an O-ring holding it in it has become fused and or hardened.. I guess I'll have to use more force?? and likely source the O-ring with a new PR.

Thanks

Maybe soak in gas and give it a firm twist??
If pushes 36psi, no worries. Leave it. But if it is low, it won't run. Of course if injectors are not being triggered it won't run either.

 

[Ridn4FunFixn2Ride]

Update...

Pressure Test: Only 10 Psi in tank

Pulled pump Assembly .....again...FinalImpact told me what to do .. in the beginning .. now I understand..and..now I'm doing it.

Popped out the Pressure Release Valve... will test this weekend. soaking in solvent now.

Question .. Dark Matter in the pressure reservoir of the assembly .. What's inside that would hold varnished fuel? Any recovery from this?

Question .. Looking on ThEbay at a "new" Chinese assembly $150 ..Photo view looks the same as my pump.. but but says 2009 - 2016. ( Fuel Pump Module Assembly 20S-13907-00 Fits YAMAHA 2009-2016 FZ6R 101962-4050 | eBay ). Any notable differences in pressure specs etc for fuel pumps across model years.. Before and after 2009?

Thanks

 

[Ohendo]

Question .. Looking on ThEbay at a "new" Chinese assembly $150 ..Photo view looks the same as my pump.. but but says 2009 - 2016. ( Fuel Pump Module Assembly 20S-13907-00 Fits YAMAHA 2009-2016 FZ6R 101962-4050 | eBay ). Any notable differences in pressure specs etc for fuel pumps across model years.. Before and after 2009?

Thanks

That pump appears, and states, to fit an FZ6R. The part numbers from Yamaha are slightly different, but may be the same? Not sure.
2009 FZ6 Fuel Pump: 5VX-13907-02-00
2009 FZ6R fuel Pump: 20S-13907-00-00

 

[FinalImpact]

They both run the same pressure 6 and 6R. The body is the same but I'd guess the fuel meter is calibrated differently. You can test pump in water too. Much safer.
You just need a functioning PR!

If it were my PR to clean I'd connect it to a pressure vessel full of soap and water 1st and apply a streaming pressure of 100 psi through it (removed from pump body). If this doesn't work, try some solvent. Be careful tho!

Basically fill a vessel full of fluid and connect the outlet to the inlet side of PR with hose and clamps.
With vessel full of fluid, apply ~120 psi to vessel. Stream cleaner/water/soap or solvent through valve.

Lower pressue to 30 psi and see if it seals.

I use a commercial sized soda dispenser container. These are like 3ft tall, have food grade quick disconnects on them, are welded SS and have burst pressure over 300psi. They have an inlet and a bottom feed pickup tube and work great for projects like this. Just don't exceed vessel psi rating or atomize flammable liquids and you should be ok...

As for the filter, use solvent and back flush it. MAF cleaner will cut any remaining residue.

Hey, glad you checked the pressure. Its good to know....

 

[FinalImpact]

Link... w/pic...


5 gallon ball lock keg with rubber handles

 

[Ridn4FunFixn2Ride]

It's Alive.....

Final Update. For the this thread.

Soaked Pressure Release Valve for a couple of days in injector cleaner. Blew out good with air hose. and tested at 30ish PSI seemed be holding.

Pressure tested pump motor to 70ish PSI out of assembly.

Put it all back together put in tank ( not on bike but in shop ) used a 12V power supply to power pump in tank..with pressure gauge on the output

Still only 10ish Pounds...Toggled off power...cussed...thought.. powered on again..noticed a little movement north on the gauge...powered off.. on again..let it run for about 60 seconds and the Pressure Valve snapped in and ...Bamm...36-39 PSI. ...

Started Bike burned off the seafoam and drove 70 miles. What a nice bike.

Bottom Line---FinalImpact's advice from the beginning was to resolve the pump pressure. Had I patiently focused on that I would have been running two weeks ago. Anyway, the thread has good info for fuel pump debug. Thanks to all who kicked in with great advice. Hope I can return the favor some day.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Sounds like it varnished up inside the regulator and stuck.

The brake cleaner and cycling got it un-stuck!

Glad its up and running, great job!

 

[FinalImpact]

Good to hear its alive. Once the pump pushes rust particulates through the PR it no longer seals and builds the required pressure. That said it solvent and continuous flow will often times remove the debris from the valve seat allowing it seat and build pressure.

So what was the status of the tank as far as rust goes?

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm not sure if you have the old pump or the patience to tinker but I suspect MAF cleaner to the inside, coupled with reverse flow and some **momentary** reverse polarity battery connects could free it.

Basically once the sediment jammed in there it stuck the rotor. Solvent, backflow under 60 psi, coupled with motor start in reverse and it may dislodge chunks.

That said the stalled motor may have been permanently damaged. But for 10" of tinkering you might see if it can be brought back to life....

 

[Ridn4FunFixn2Ride]

Good to hear its alive. Once the pump pushes rust particulates through the PR it no longer seals and builds the required pressure. That said it solvent and continuous flow will often times remove the debris from the valve seat allowing it seat and build pressure.

So what was the status of the tank as far as rust goes?

Rust was light surface with lots of varnish I derusted the tank by
1. scrubbing with solvents, mild abrasive sponges and brushes ( a refrigerator coil cleaner, with a sponge zipped tied to it will snake around to the tight spots) and solvents.
2. Cleared solvent with TSP solution rinse and then water.
3. Dried with hair dryer
4. Etched with acid (JASCO Prep-n-Primer) and more scrubbing scrubbing with acid prep
5. Water rinse and blow dry
6. Lots of WD-40 to hold it over while doing research and waiting parts.

Did not seal. Plan on keeping it filled with gas and observing over time.