Motorcyclist shot in back from traffic cop

[bushboarder]

I'm not defending his actions, but the guy did reach his right arm back to where people typically carry a fire arm.

Nothing about this is going to turn out good. The best thing we can all do is to learn from it and adjust our actions accordingly in the future.

He reached his arm back as he was turning around like anyone on a bike would do when a cop is giving him instructions from behind. Not trying to start an argument here, but the guy's arm/hand never made a motion like it was going to come up with a gun.

 

[jsw4178]

I got pulled over recently, and I did the exact opposite of you. I understand it's great for you to have everything ready when the cop walks up but to prevent spooking the LEO by getting off your bike and start reaching into your pocket is a recipe for disaster.

What I did was as soon as I got pulled over:

1. Turned off the bike
2. Remained seated on my motorcycle with my hands visible, like on the handlebars.
3. All gear on, inlcuding helmet.
4. Wait until I receive further instructions.
5. I was asked for my driver's license so I told the LEO I will be reaching for them which was inside my pocket.

In this case, he didn't even ask for my registration. He just wanted my driver's license and insurance and then he let me go.

Not sure what the best protocal is on what to do when you get pulled over on a bike, but if there are any professionals out there who are on this forum who pull people over for a living, interesting what they would say on what's the best way on a bike.

Exactly the way you did it unless specifically advised otherwise:thumbup:

 

[codeblue]

What a shame to be shot coz the officer thought the dude had a gun, BUT why suddenly speed off from a complete stop when the a patrol cop is behind you? Makes it a VERY suspicious behavior for a patrol officer to witness, especially after the officer chases after the bikers and turns on his lights and sirens in pursuit. Makes anyone suspect potentially the worst scenario (bike gangsters, drugs dealers, whatever), this is something that these police officers face everyday of the week especially in crime infested areas. I not trying to defend Officer White, but just looking at all possible areas that made this scenario go wrong.

1. two bikers suddenly speeds away in front of patrol officer
2. same bikers failing to slow down and stop after the patrol officer chases after them with lights and sirens.
3. suspicious movement of the victim giving the appearance of someone pulling out a handgun.
4. unfortunately, harley guys don't exactly look like law abiding citizens. hate to discriminate harley dudes, but that's what society in general has veiwed them, guys in sport bikes are typically viewed as young guys that likes to ride recklessly popping wheelies and doing burn out.

I believe if those events above happened differently, besides the officer being trigger happy then Michael could still be riding today. Certainly that officer should have handled the situation differently, but when that's you in the hot seat and you only have a split second to decide... what would you choose? The "perps" life or yours?? Only if the officer could've have shot Michael somewhere else... the leg, the arm or even shot into the air as a final warning.
Definitely this is a double tradgedy for both the victim of the shooting and the shooter. Only if..............

 

[RJ2112]

He reached his arm back as he was turning around like anyone on a bike would do when a cop is giving him instructions from behind. Not trying to start an argument here, but the guy's arm/hand never made a motion like it was going to come up with a gun.

Remember also, that the angle of view is not the same as what the officer was seeing. He had to be a good 3-5 feet further to the left, which would have masked that arm, that much more.

(I'm not claiming this is a 'good' shooting, by any stretch.... but I can understand adrenaline, poor sight lines, high stress, and a very very quick sequence of events.)

No one has mentioned if there were any priors on either rider. No one has mentioned how long this pursuit had gone on prior to this video. No one has described any other actions by any party that may play into the LEO's threat assessment. How much meth-amphetamine use is common, where this occurred?

If he's already pulled a bead on the seated rider, and the other bike goes out of his view.... and then this guy does something with his hands that the LEO cannot see? I can understand where the rider's actions were perceived as 'hinkey'..... and I can also understand his innocent intent; if it was that.

Is the shooting justified? Almost certainly not, in the view of whatever jury is going to judge this. Can I understand how it happened? Yes.

No matter the bullet proof vest, no matter the badge, or the gun, or the cruiser, and the sirens and lights. The LEO has the right to go home at the end of his/her shift unharmed. They are trained to escalate to the next level of force required to maintain control of the situation. Gun comes out, 'center mass' is the only option. It's somewhat amazing to me, that he didn't empty his clip to be honest. Darned unfortunate that this LEO was proficient enough to hit center mass, and sever this guy's spine. 3" either side, and you're talking about a punctured lung.

 

[codeblue]

watch the complete raw police video footage of this mishap, the patrol officer was following the two bikers for awhile and this video you can see some minor violations.... rolling stop instead of a complete stop, erratic motorcycle riding by the victim himself (swerving from the right most side of the lane towards the left). Although you can also see that this officer just tailing this two riders, something some of us have personally experienced despite being within the posted speed limit. This makes you wonder if "these" officers are baiting riders for a potential ticket or an arrest. Prior to the two riders speeding off quickly you can make out the two of them eyeballing the patrol car behind them and looking at each other almost "appearing" to agree in speeding off and ditcihing the patrol car. Also note that the other biker (who went up the curb) was the one that initiated the speeding.
This two bikers should have just pulled over to the side and inquired what the patrol officer wanted, certainly that's an option I'm willing to take. What's the worst that can happen if the two bikers did this, a slap on the wrist and call a night or even a ticket. Sure beats getting shot in the back.
Michael certainly wasn't doing anything suspicious (AFTER finally stopping), we've all had our right hand on our right hip during a stop, certainly turning his whole torso to look behind him from this postion may appear like a handgun is being drawn, BUT to us riders this body language is normal and by no means we're pulling a handgun. But we know this because we ride bikes and we understand the body language of any rider, to the cagers or any other non biker citizen this movement may suggest something sinister.
Again this is such a tradgedy, what a shame it went down like that.

 

[codeblue]

here's the link to the raw footage: RAW VIDEO: Officer White's dash cam footage (no sound) | Video | 13abc.com

 

[Signal 50]

He reached his arm back as he was turning around like anyone on a bike would do when a cop is giving him instructions from behind. Not trying to start an argument here, but the guy's arm/hand never made a motion like it was going to come up with a gun.

Yeah I watched it again and it looks like you are right.

 

[codeblue]

looking back at the raw footage and realized that the two bikers ended up switching lane positions during the turn shortly after speeding. It was Michael that initiated the speeding and his buddy that was swerving beforehand was the one that rode up the curb during the turn. Hmmmmm.

 

[codeblue]

Yeah I watched it again and it looks like you are right.

Without a doubt "for us riders" Michael's body language doesn't appear that he is pulling a handgun, BUT the general public will view this differently. Unfortunately when this same video is viewed and scrutinized mutiple times we start having a "slippery slope" effect and this starts to change our initial perspective of the situation on hand. This is the same initial perspective that the patrol officer saw that night and no one has the luxury to play the scenario over and over before the tradegy occurs. I agree that the officer may not have the optimal point of view at that time, also considering the time of day beside line of sight.

 

[bushboarder]

Yeah I watched it again and it looks like you are right.

Like codeblue said, WE might understand the body langauge of the biker but the cop probably didn't. Just a very unfortunate situation.

 

[codeblue]

So what lesson can we ALL learn from this? How should a rider's body language behave when pulled over to the side by a patrol officer. Certainly no one want's to get shot in the back. Majority of the population, depending where you live probably view riders as bike gang members, hooligans, 1% (is that right?)
My take would be when getting pulled over, to name a few:
1. Pull over and shut off the engine
2. Do nothing, unless told otherwise.
3. Keep hands on handlebars or somewhere the officer can see
4. When asked to show documents (drivers license, registration, etc), advice police where it is placed and you are going to retrieve it
5. Oh yeah get off the bike if possible (just in case another motorist drives by TOO CLOSE), but advise officer that you're doing this and tell them why.
6. Don't forget to show the officer my FOP membership card for insurance :thumbup:
7. And if no ticket is given, ride away with this look under my shield :BLAA:

 

[Boneman]

I didn't see a single thing that would justify using "deadly force" nor that the officer was in a "life threatening situation".

Geeze...for once a cop DIDN'T use a tazer??? I thought this was a pretty textbook case of when one should use a tazer??

 

[Shinleung]

the darn cop should defiantly be put in jail!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Has anyone simulated turning your head & torso around to your right on their own bikes while mounted? Would this movement require a minor motion of your right hand similar to the rider?

Obviously it's going to be the rider's natural reaction to look back.

 

[codeblue]

I didn't see a single thing that would justify using "deadly force" nor that the officer was in a "life threatening situation".

Geeze...for once a cop DIDN'T use a tazer??? I thought this was a pretty textbook case of when one should use a tazer??

I somewhat agree with the misuse of deadly force on this one, certainly the officer could potentialy use some other means to address the issue.
Are law enforcement allowed to fire in the air as a form of warning?? Could the officer shot else where, the ground near the rider, the riders leg (may prove difficult due to smaller target and it happened during the night).
Are all law enforcement allowed tazers? I thought it was banned in the certain states due to misuse by officers during interrogations.
How about some input from some of our law enforcement friends/members. Did the officer approach the situation correctly given the behavior(s) of the riders prior to the shot being fired? Was there any possible alternate course of action that should have been taken?

 

[codeblue]

Has anyone simulated turning your head & torso around to your right on their own bikes while mounted? Would this movement require a minor motion of your right hand similar to the rider?

Obviously it's going to be the rider's natural reaction to look back.

I tried this movement on our bike with my hand on my right hip/upper thigh, my left hand on the clutch and realized that there are too many factors involved. The bike involved is a cruiser, the riders height, arm length, was he slouching the slightest bit, was his elbow bent a little while resting on his hip/thigh? Too many variables no matter how small they are. What was going through the rider's emotion at this time? Was he nervous, angry, apprehensive and did this manifest after he had to stop?
One thing for certain, they should have immediately slowed down and come to a complete stop after the lights and sirens went off behind them. We all slow down and pull to the side of the street in our cages when we see or hear emergency vehicle sirens blowing off, whether it's coming from behind, in front or even from the side streets. These guys certainly didn't want to stop for anyone despite the sirens. Just imagine if this happened during late in the afternoon when the kids are getting off the school buses and one of this guys run over YOUR daughter, son, niece, nephew, or even your pet dog. Would you feel sorry for them then?? They showed COMPLETE DISREGARD to the law after they purposely broke it. They only stop because one guy almost crashed after hitting the curb. Did Michael deserve to get shot in the back by Officer White, maybe... maybe not. We can't tell for certain since we're only seeing a glimpse into something that happened almost a year ago according to the video. Were there any priors on the two bikers riding that night when the officer was running their plates through the system (if he did)?

 

[nextfriday]

his buddy didnt help the situation by wiping out. It just raised the stakes and resulted in a poor outcome.

 

[ant_mb]

Did Michael deserve to get shot in the back by Officer White, maybe... maybe not.

That is the most discusting post I have ever seen on this site! How in the hell can you say he deserved to be shot? He was sitting peacefully on his bike when the coward shot him in the back.

Ok so he took off fast from a red light! I do that all the time, do I deserve to be shot? So he was riding with a guy that can't contol a bike. I have a few times also, do I deserve to be shot? He pulled over for the cop and the ass much shot him in the back. I say fry his ass, but that's not an option.

 

[ant_mb]

Did Michael deserve to get shot in the back by Officer White, maybe... maybe not.

That is the most discusting post I have ever seen on this site! How in the hell can you say he deserved to be shot? He was sitting peacefully on his bike when the coward shot him in the back.

Ok so he took off fast from a red light! I do that all the time, do I deserve to be shot? So he was riding with a guy that can't contol a bike. I have a few times also, do I deserve to be shot? He pulled over for the cop and the ass much shot him in the back. I say fry his ass, but that's not an option.

 

[dean owens]

i'm usually all for giving cops the benefit of the doubt. i'm even fine giving them the botd when they have a bad day and a bad attitude. it happens. but this? i have to agree with ant on this. this guy didn't need to be out there... at least not that night. and because he was he took away someone's ability to walk for the rest of their life. he made a mistake and he needs to pay for that.