Managing / dealing with vibration - hands, arse, feet

[SamuraiMark]

Hi all,

2006 FZ6, mostly stock.

I've been trying my hand at some longer distance riding, hoping to build up endurance for road trips like Ontario -> East Coast and Ontario -> Key West, and trying to determine root cause for any discomfort.

First run of the day I can comfortably do at least 2 hours. After that I can manage maybe 1hr15mins at a stretch, with a 30 - 45 min break though this remains to be proven. I'm doing some test runs to see if this pans out. If I can comfortably do four or five 1hr15min runs in a day, even with long breaks, then that is good enough for long distance touring.

Primary pain points are a sore ass (stock seat) and sore / uncomfortable knees and quads. Also issues with hands and feet. Wind doesn't bother me, though I do have Givi's taller touring screen ordered. Should be here next week.

As I said, I am not sure of the root cause (sore ass -> I could stand to lose 20lbs, need a different seat? Hands and feet -> vibration?, knees and quads -> sport touring style "closed" knee and hip angles? Vibration again?) but I suspect high-frequency vibration at freeway speeds (110 - 120kph, ~6000RPM in 6th) may be at least partially to blame.

And so I am looking for suggestions or discussion on your experiences. Obviously I should consider an alternative seat ... Corbin Gunfighter? The Yamaha touring seat only available in Europe AFAIK? And yes, I should lose that 20lbs.

I thought boots with Vibram soles might help (or anti-vibration insoles? Isolate It! Insoles, Premium Sorbothane Insoles) but I'm having a hell of a time finding actual motorcycle boots with Vibram soles. Maybe some Doc Marten's with their squishy soles? But those aren't actual moto boots. No armor.

I have Icon's Patrol boots. They've been decent enough (except for those damn fabric eyelets) but they don't do much to isolate vibration at the pegs.

Vibration in the handlebars is sometimes bad enough to leave me with the same kind of after-effects you gets from working with powertools for extended periods ... tingling and such. Granted, this is partly the result of holding the grips to tight. Alternative grips? Handlebar weights? Anti-Vibration Inserts | Fasst Company

[Edit: Found some bar end / bar weight ideas here: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-general-discussion/49197-new-fz6-bar-ends.html]

So, how do the rest of you find the vibration of the FZ6 at speed over long distances? It is entirely possible that I'm just not built for, or too old for, the relatively closed up position of a Euro-style sport-touring bike. Maybe I need something more open like an F800GS or anything I can more easily move around on. But I love my FZ6, and would prefer to solve any issues of (distance limiting) discomfort if possible.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Red Wazp]

Have you had your 06 tuned up lately? New plugs and a throttle body sync? IF you still have discomfort after the tune up it may just be the wrong bike for your long distance riding.

I owned my FZ6 as a day/play bike and have never thought of it as a touring bike. Yes it can be done but being much younger helps a lot too.

Inline 4's can be a bit buzzy at highway speeds although my FJR1300 was much smoother than my FZ6 and FZ1.

I would suggest if you can't get the FZ a smooth as you need it to look into a larger bike with decent wind protection and luggage for the long trips. Keep your FZ6 for the local rides where a big bike is not needed. It's best to own more than one bike

If you really want smooth you can't beat a Gold Wing, mine is so nice for those 500 mile days.

 

[Motogiro]

Obviously we all experience different bodies and how ergonomics effect us.

Age, diet, health are big factors. I hear people talk a lot about vibration but it doesn't seem to effect me. I've ridden different bikes with different engines and vibration doesn't seem to bother me. I rode my SV1000 (Forward riding position, V-Twin) for almost 500 miles one day and I was more tired than anything else. I think my biggest problem ever with comfort is any tension in muscles. I find that if I have tingling in right hand (usually at the beginning of a ride) it's do to tenseness for what ever reason and if I pay attention to why it's tense, it relaxes and goes away and doesn't bother me for the rest of the day.

Another thing I learned is your body can acclimate with practice so practice and relax.

Stretching is probably good. Sometimes I try doing "Sun Salutations" with my wife but she starts laughing at me sliding around on the floor and kicks me out of the room!

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ Truth in that....

Some details; if yours vibrates to bad as to make you feet numb its either real bad vibes or the angles are cutting your circulation.


Mine is just not comfy on the rear so the seat is being sent off for different padding and shape change to fit me. What I will add is there was a point when the vibes were bad all over. From this this I went on a quest to fix it. In short a tune and observation of the quality of the connections fixed 85% of the vibes. Mind you, my bike ran great, pulled fine, didn't misfire, started cold, hot, on hill, at the ocean it ran fine but it had a vibration it didn't always have. THIS FIXED IT: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/48874-cure-bad-vibrations-spark-plug-caps.html

Many won't believe this or try it - but some oils are better than others and if you ride the crap out of it, the oil breaks down sooner.

Hit list:
New plugs at the proper gap ^^ see thread
Fix suspect plug wires
Change oil

If this doesn't fix it:
Throttle body sync
- - If throttle body sync doesn't come in tight (able to get all 4 spot on), its very likely the valves need adjusted.

Many will say these engines can't be vibration free. They CAN BE VERY NEAR Vibration free following the info here. Try it, it can't hurt!

Also a bar swap may fix angles to eliminate hands going to sleep. FZ1 and FZ6R are both drops ins that help.

 

[FinalImpact]

Obviously we all experience different bodies and how ergonomics effect us.

Age, diet, health are big factors. I hear people talk a lot about vibration but it doesn't seem to effect me. I've ridden different bikes with different engines and vibration doesn't seem to bother me. I rode my SV1000 (Forward riding position, V-Twin) for almost 500 miles one day and I was more tired than anything else. I think my biggest problem ever with comfort is any tension in muscles. I find that if I have tingling in right hand (usually at the beginning of a ride) it's do to tenseness for what ever reason and if I pay attention to why it's tense, it relaxes and goes away and doesn't bother me for the rest of the day.

Another thing I learned is your body can acclimate with practice so practice and relax.

Stretching is probably good. Sometimes I try doing "Sun Salutations" with my wife but she starts laughing at me sliding around on the floor and kicks me out of the room!

At times I notice I may have a death grip going on. What's funny is I can also float my hands on the grips BARELY hanging on at all thus steering the bike with my knees. Being relaxed is a huge deal in what muscles "feel", absorb and even transmit to other parts of the body. The death grip accompanied by bad angles will be very tiring.

 

[n0other]

I have fitted new spark plugs and done the TB sync, the wheels are balanced, fresh Motul oil etc - the bike still vibrates, it's just the characteristic of the engine.

As far as I'm concerned it's not a touring bike for me, just had a ~200 mile ride and it's absolutely the most I could tolerate on stock seat and I'm just 25. The vibration makes my palms numb as well.

To set up for touring I'd need to:

* get a faired bike, fit extended windscreen
* fit 17T sprocket to reduce cruising RPM
* ride with earplugs because the engine is buzzy/revvy anyway
* change stock seat

Seeing that I don't really need a bike for in town commuting that much (where the FZ6 shines in my opinion) I'm probably switching to a FJR next season.

 

[Carlos840]

I have the stock naked version and can pretty easily go for a day long 300+ miles ride being 6"2 with 34" inseam.

I used to have a bit of knee pain, but for some reason setting the rear preload right (weight 175lbs without gear and setting 5 gives me 28mm of sag) sorted that out. It raised the seat a bit which changed the angles of things and eased my knee pain a lot.

I noticed that arse pain really depends on how i sit. If i sit back for a long period of time it can get painful, if i sit forward against the tank it gets rid of the pressure on the tailbone and i can go all day.

Regarding the hand pain, IMO a lot comes from holding on to tight, i have a very loose grip on the bars and never had any hand pain. It also helps during hard acceleration as i am less likely to jerk the bars while shifting.

Same thing can be said about your feet position, if you have your arches on the pegs all the vibrations are transmitted directly to your hips and body, if you have the balls of your feet on the pegs your leg can absorb a lot of that vibration and your calf acts as a spring. (to demonstrate that just sit at your desk with your legs bent at 90 degrees, if your heels are down, everything is solid and can't move, if your heels are up you can vibrate your legs up and down very easily. I am sure it changes a lot the way your body absorbs vibrations! It sounds stupid, but experimenting really showed me it makes a huge difference in comfort.)

The more i work on my body positioning and trying to be relaxed on the bike the less tiring it gets!

 

[SamuraiMark]

Have you had your 06 tuned up lately? New plugs and a throttle body sync? IF you still have discomfort after the tune up it may just be the wrong bike for your long distance riding.

Plugs were replaced in March 2012, and it was in a couple months ago for an end-to-end look-see prior to my trip to Vermont. My mechanic (trusted guy) gave it green lights across the board. Bought it used in August 2011 with 9000kms on it. I'm a little past 22,000kms now. Regular oil changes and such but no throttle body sync AFAIK. I just pinged my mechanic re: a throttle body sync, 17T sprocket, handlebar adjustment or replacement and this:

www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/48874-cure-bad-vibrations-spark-plug-caps.html

I owned my FZ6 as a day/play bike and have never thought of it as a touring bike. Yes it can be done but being much younger helps a lot too.

Inline 4's can be a bit buzzy at highway speeds although my FJR1300 was much smoother than my FZ6 and FZ1.

I keep seeing dudes on SV650s doing these epic trips and I think "I should be able to do that too". I could be wrong. I'm 41, in good shape (a bit overweight but I'm a power/weight lifter, not a marathoner). Maybe the SV's twin makes for a less buzzy ride.

I would suggest if you can't get the FZ a smooth as you need it to look into a larger bike with decent wind protection and luggage for the long trips. Keep your FZ6 for the local rides where a big bike is not needed. It's best to own more than one bike

If you really want smooth you can't beat a Gold Wing, mine is so nice for those 500 mile days.

I keep telling my friends and family that I need at least two bikes, one for town & clowning around, and one for the long road. Big fan of BMW's horizontal twins. If Yamaha overhauled the FJR, I'd give it serious consideration. Maybe the Wee-strom. No bigger but apparently ridiculously comfortable.

Thanks for your input!

 

[SamuraiMark]

Thanks Motogiro. I stretch on the road during breaks, try to keep the joints somewhat mobile while moving, standing up on the pegs (when not at freeway speeds obviously!)

Diet is a big one I find ... not uncommon to be up late having a few drinks with riding buddies. But those late nights, beers and whiskeys stay with you, even if your just having a social few.

 

[SamuraiMark]

Hit list:
New plugs at the proper gap ^^ see thread
Fix suspect plug wires
Change oil

If this doesn't fix it:
Throttle body sync
- - If throttle body sync doesn't come in tight (able to get all 4 spot on), its very likely the valves need adjusted.

Thanks! I'll add this to my list of TODOs (bar weights, new bars, 17T sprocket ...) I believe my boots do cut off circulation a bit, especially my right foot for some reason. Shopping for new ones.

 

[SamuraiMark]

I used to have a bit of knee pain, but for some reason setting the rear preload right (weight 175lbs without gear and setting 5 gives me 28mm of sag) sorted that out. It raised the seat a bit which changed the angles of things and eased my knee pain a lot.

I noticed that arse pain really depends on how i sit. If i sit back for a long period of time it can get painful, if i sit forward against the tank it gets rid of the pressure on the tailbone and i can go all day.

Regarding the hand pain, IMO a lot comes from holding on to tight, i have a very loose grip on the bars and never had any hand pain. It also helps during hard acceleration as i am less likely to jerk the bars while shifting.

Wow ... I hadn't even thought of adjusting the spring preload. Odd considering I'd given light consideration to forking out the cash for an Ohlins. I'll give that a look.

Same here on the seat and hands. Sometimes I slid back a bit just to change position, but most of the time I'm up close to the tank. More comfortable and feels more manoeuvrable that way. And I grab the bars to tight. Constantly, consciously, telling myself to relax.

 

[FinalImpact]

This bike can be vibration free! Its attention to detail that matters and I'm not certain a shop is going to think twice about it. MY POINT; my bike ran fine - it, RUNS VIBRATION FREE now. Looking requires very few tools.

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/48874-cure-bad-vibrations-spark-plug-caps.html


Do it to the letter and post up. I bet a few people with complaints could solve their problems if they look close enough. Its all in the small details.

 

[SamuraiMark]

This bike can be vibration free! Its attention to detail that matters and I'm not certain a shop is going to think twice about it. MY POINT; my bike ran fine - it, RUNS VIBRATION FREE now. Looking requires very few tools.

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/48874-cure-bad-vibrations-spark-plug-caps.html

Do it to the letter and post up. I bet a few people with complaints could solve their problems if they look close enough. Its all in the small details.

Thanks! Maybe I'll give this a shot myself, though I'm a novice at such things and don't have much in the way of facilities and tools. I've been reading that thread.