Killed Battery, Unable to bump-start

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The 900RPM estimate is when it's already warmed up, I think it was more like 1100 when cold. I'll check it out to make sure, maybe I should adjust it up just to make it easier on the stator. The 07 has the analog tach, so it's also possible that there's just some inaccuracy when I'm reading it.

When I tried to bump-start, I had enough power for the display. I got a really good push down a hill, I let go of the clutch handle and saw the tach at around 1-2k RPMs, heard the engine whining (engine braking). The bike slowed to a stop, no sign of any fuel-burning at all, tach was just showing the speed that the engine was turning from the wheels.

I tried cranking the throttle to see if fuel would make the engine speed kick up, I tried pulling the clutch handle back in, assuming that once the engine was running, I'd want to make sure I didn't stall out. I'm dubious about the need to press the ignition key as well, but it wouldn't surprise me that there needs to be some indication to the bike to prime the fuel injectors.

Maybe there is a difference between the models, there were a lot of changes between 05 and 07.

See post #9.

I posted the battery is about breaking even at 1300 RPM's... At 900, your draining it.. The idle screw adjuster is inbetween the tank and the frame, left side, star shaped screw, takes a phillips head screwdriver...

 

[Se7enLC]

I went out this morning and checked it all over. I took some videos just because. It's tricky to get exact engine speeds on off the analog tach, but estimates looked to be pretty close

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKRupRsy-os"]Cold Idle[/ame]
Engine speed looks to be between 1200 and 1400 at cold idle.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VPVgerqY9c"]Warm idle[/ame]
Once it warmed up, the idle dropped to around 800-900.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcOuDcIP-ZY"]Warm idle, adjusted[/ame]
I adjusted the idle up to the correct 1250-1350 range

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfuF9Stpnw"]Voltage test[/ame]
With the idle now set correctly, I did some testing just for fun. I hooked my voltmeter up and watched the voltage with the ignition off, on, and with the engine at various speeds. I did a min-hold to see how low the voltage dropped during ignition.

Seems like things are working properly, now!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Considerably better!!!

It appears your still around 1100, 1150 RPM's or so.

You may want to bump it up just a tad but at least now your charging at idle instead of drawing the battery down...

Your battery should last a bit longer now, especially if in stop and go traffic (when the fan kicks on)..

Congrates!

 

[jazzpaintball]

Looks like a successful thread, too bad every help thread can not end this way.

 

[FinalImpact]

So nice to see someone with a god meter! The Min/Max function is priceless!!!! Nice Work and good documented evidence what the Fiz should do!

SO I have to wonder if disconnecting the head lights during a bump start would change anything? I want to say no, but because the starter circuit is not being used (not needed IMO), it may be beneficial. It too easy to access to NOT do it so I'd say if the chips are down, pull the plugs!

Also a healthy battery will slowly bounce back from a discharge (example, key on). So if no help is available; Disconnect the battery and put it in the sun for an hour (just kidding but gives you something to do). The charge may come back up if heated and left alone, disconnect lights, (wait 30min +++) connect battery and go for the bump start!

Great Thread!

 

[Se7enLC]

So nice to see someone with a god meter! The Min/Max function is priceless!!!! Nice Work and good documented evidence what the Fiz should do!

SO I have to wonder if disconnecting the head lights during a bump start would change anything? I want to say no, but because the starter circuit is not being used (not needed IMO), it may be beneficial. It too easy to access to NOT do it so I'd say if the chips are down, pull the plugs!

I can't love that typo enough! (I made it bold)

The headlights don't actually come on with just the key, at least on the S2 (not sure about the S1). It's only once the engine starts that the headlights come on. I'm guessing for exactly that reason! (so that the headlights don't take power that could be used to start the engine). I just switched my accessory relay trigger wire over to the headlights for that reason, but now I'm having second thoughts and I might switch it back to ignition controlled. it's nice not having to start the engine to get (brief) power to accessories - especially now that one of my accessories is a voltmeter.

Also a healthy battery will slowly bounce back from a discharge (example, key on). So if no help is available; Disconnect the battery and put it in the sun for an hour (just kidding but gives you something to do). The charge may come back up if heated and left alone, disconnect lights, (wait 30min +++) connect battery and go for the bump start!

Haha, classic. Joking aside, I have considered getting a solar trickle charger, but I think now that my idle is set correctly I'm not going to need anything at all to keep it happy.

Back on the topic of DMM, I just picked this little gem up at Microcenter for $7:

Nowhere NEAR as nice as the Fluke, but look at the size of that thing! I'm going to keep it in the toolkit under my seat!

 

[wolfc70]

I had to bump start my bike twice. Once was sucessful, the other time did not work.

The time it did work, the battery was not totally flat, I had turned on the key to check the time during a stop and did not turn it back off. Half an hour later, the gauges worked and the fuel pump ran, but not enough power to engage the starter. A riding buddy helped push and we got the bike going.

The second time, the battery was completely dead (left key on over night). It showed 2.4v. We tried everything but pulling the bike behind a car, no luck. I think the key here is that you need enough juice to run the fuel pump. The ECU seems to turn on and operate the injectors at pretty low volatages. The fuel pump does not seem to do anything until you get into the 6-8v range. No fuel pressure means no start. Leaving the key on all night did kill the battery, it would not hold a charge long after this incident. Bought a OEM battery and I now make sure the key is in my pocket everytime I walk away from the bike! Lesson learned.

I also found a battery tender is a very valuable thing to have, especially if you have a few weeks or more between riding sessions.

 

[FinalImpact]

FWIW: the fuel rail isn't dry. In fact in an 8 hr period, it may still be pressurized. With this thought in mind, it likely only needs the ECM to apply a spark and injector signal (open the injector) to get the show going. Ponder this; is gravity constant? If the injector opens the fuel can drip even if there is no pressure. Granted its not effective but it may be enough to bring it to life. I'm just thinking out loud.

The reason I write is this; If pulling a fuse or pulling the head lamp socket gets someone home from the middle of nowhere, we have served our purpose here.


Why is my battery dead?
A hand held meter set to measure milliamps (mA) can be used to measure leakage current in the electrical system. Meaning, if the battery has a small drain on it for weeks on end, it will be pulling current from the battery and deplete it. We can measure this!
To do this test; remove the positive battery lead. Set your meter to AMPs initially and connect the battery cable to the positive side of the meter. Connect the negative lead of the meter to the +12V of the battery. DO NOT HIT THE START SWITCH as it will blow the fuse in your meter. As would turning the key on. If the reading is less than 0.010 Amps, switch the meter to mA. In the ideal world it will read 0.000 mA. That means there is NO energy being extracted from the battery and you need to look for something else (likely a new battery).

If the meter reading is not zero, begin removing fuses until you isolate the system which is drawing current and killing your battery. I will say it is likely that people will see a small amount of current like 0.5mA or 0.0005A.

I hope this helps. . .

 

[wolfc70]

FWIW: the fuel rail isn't dry. In fact in an 8 hr period, it may still be pressurized. With this thought in mind, it likely only needs the ECM to apply a spark and injector signal (open the injector) to get the show going. Ponder this; is gravity constant? If the injector opens the fuel can drip even if there is no pressure. Granted its not effective but it may be enough to bring it to life. I'm just thinking out loud.
.

The holes on the injector are very small in order to atomize the fuel. Yes there is some static pressure in the line, but not enough for more than one fire on one cylinder. The injectors will not really allow fuel to drip from gravity. Remember the ECU tells how long for the injectors to be open, and this is measured in milliseconds. There is no way gravity will flow quick enough to get any meaningful amout of fuel for combustion. In most non-DI engines, anything below 20psi fuel pressure can start to cause problems with proper ignition as the injectors can't produce a fine spray. I would say you would need to be close to 10 psi in hopes of getting the bike started.

Granted every bump start situation is different. If your battery has some voltage, the gauges activate and the fuel pump slowly whirs to life, the bike should start. If your battery has turned into the equivalent of a non-conductive piece of wood, then there is a much smaller chance your efforts will be sucsessful.

Pushing a bike on a 90F day is not that much fun, other than pushing it out of the garage to go riding. If your battery is giving you signs of going south, replace it. On the other hand, no matter how perfectly your bike is maintained, operator stupidity will win everytime!