Joe Biden- Liar and War Advocate

[mdr]

Sadly they didn't, luckily for the Allies.
I am also against war I hate the human suffering that occurs to the innocent. I would not vote for a war if I were given the option. I have a family with a strong military tradition which I am proud of.
I would enlist if called to do so by my country and I respect totally all of the personnel in the armed forced that do a job that I could not imagine doing. I am not trying to start a debate about is war right or not I just wanted Oz to know that he is not alone on that one.

Nelly

Nelly,

I wouldn't vote for war either if the other option was diplomacy and it was likely to work. On the other hand, if Great Britain and America hadn't "Voted for War", you would definitely be typing this in German and I might be replying in Japanese. You can't have it both ways.

Hotei

 

[mdr]

Um... are you not aware that Biden was the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee from 2001-03 and then again from 2006-present day? It was his job to know what was going on in Iraq, he is the one supplying information to the Bush Administration and advising them to attack Iraq.

Don't jack this thread with Sarah Palin talk, this is about Joe Biden. Sarah has her own thread, please post in that one.

Are you aware that Biden is also running for reelection? Must not be too confident in Obama pulling this off...

Biden didn't control either the DoD, the CIA, the DIA or the NSA. Whatever he got was filtered by those organizations, all of which report to the White House.

Hotei

 

[mdr]

No,we were actually in it before you,but I stand by my statement,don't matter to me what nationality ,American,ozy ,kiwi or pom,if you vote for a government that thinks wars are a good thing and a means to an end , then you deserve what you get.

I hate to split hairs, but I disagree. War IS a good thing if the alternative is enslavement by a dictatorial foreign power. If the "end" is freedom then most rational men and women are willing to use the "means" of fighting for it. I really think you and I agree on this topic, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hotei

 

[FZ1inNH]

No,we were actually in it before you,but I stand by my statement,don't matter to me what nationality ,American,ozy ,kiwi or pom,if you vote for a government that thinks wars are a good thing and a means to an end , then you deserve what you get.

You must mean *senseless war* such as that being waged at the moment? I agree with mdr's view on this as well. I'm for war with a purpose if my freedom is in question.

 

[Cuba]

Cuba,
Helllooo. Biden didn't control either the DoD, the CIA, the DIA or the NSA. Whatever he got was filtered by those organizations, all of which report to the White House. So he definitely was NOT supplying the WH with info. Please do your homework first before you post silly stuff like that.

Ok, so where's the \"Sarah Palin - Liar and ANWR drilling advocate thread\"?

Hotei

Sarah Palin thread:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/bar/8226-mccain-picked-sarah-palin.html

In fact he was IN CHARGE of assessing the situation in Iraq and advising the white house on what our response should be. You seem to be saying that Bush controls the DOD CIA DIA and NSA? Or perhaps that each of these agencies mislead both Bush and Biden, but we should attack Bush and not Biden?

They both received the same info (except of course Bush also received Biden's advice to attack) and came to the same conclusion yet one was right and the other wrong? What exactly are you saying?

I'll ask again, why is Biden's close involvement in an ongoing criminal investigation of his lobbyist family members' fraudulent activities not being reported (dispite the fact that they represent his largest campaign donor), yet Palin's pregnant daughter is somehow a national scandal all over the news? Biden has far more "scandal" material yet it is ignored by the media, why is that do you think?

 

[Oscar54]

You know what I am always amazed by? How people can live through the last 7 years and experience what we have, with the Republicans in virtual control of the whole government and still think that the Democrats and Liberals are responsible for the sorry state of our nations freedoms, economy, and world stature?

Did anyone watch the fantasy that is supposedly the Republican Convention? They are for "Choice" since Sarah's daughter apparently got to "chose" to have her love child (I am not ridiculing the young girl, but the Irony?) and She "Chose" to have her baby even though it had Downs Syndrome (I am compasionate for anyone with a disabled child, I bring it up because she defunded programs to help people with this issue). They are for good jobs here while promoting globalization. They are for renewable energy, though they have never offered any legislation, they are for cleaning up Washington (Abramoff) and smaller government that lives within its means (never attempted to balance budget)...I mean do these people know what reality is?

Sarah Palin is more ready to lead than Obama since her Foreign Affairs cred is superior because Alaska is closer to Russia than I guess Illinois? (What grade school logic) Or that she has been governor for 20 months of a state with the population of 650,000 and Obama is just a legislator. Or that she loves America more when her husband wants Alaska to secede from the Union ( I suppose to keep the Oil Money for themselves) as if they are entitled by birth.

If someone is going to vote Republican, than they better truely believe that Sarah Palin is capable of being President because there is a high likelyhood that McCain ain't going to make it 4 years as president. The job ages you bad. Just look at W now compared to 2000. And he spent 2 years of his term on vacation. So just think what will happen to a 72 year old cancer patient. Yea that is right, he is a cancer patient! He has melanoma and it can come back anytime with a vengence. It don't just go away because you cut it out. This is not a cheap shot, it is a legitimate issue!

 

[FZ1inNH]

People, I will state this once. Please keep all conversations non-confrontational. If you cannot post in a civil manner without name calling and personal attacks, the thread will be closed and offenders will be warned. A good clean debate is healthy for everyone. Please keep "YOU" and negative comments toward members OUT!

The Management

 

[Nelly]

Nelly,
I knew they got in it 1939, I was just trying to get Oz to say it. It's a debating method to force your opponent to agree with you.

I wouldn't vote for war either if the other option was diplomacy and it was likely to work. On the other hand, if Great Britain and America hadn't \"Voted for War\", you would definitely be typing this in German and I might be replying in Japanese. You can't have it both ways.

Hotei

I totally agree with what your saying. It's just that I feel diplomacy is often not fully explored. Now sanctions don't even get me started on sanctions who suffers under sanctions? the innocent.
I would still find it very difficult to vote for war. I believe that WW2 was a war that truly threatened home land security and the freedom of Europe, of course you will protect your home.
As I said I would enter the service of my country without question I would be a medic or a stretcher bearer.

Nelly

 

[Oscar54]

Um... are you not aware that Biden was the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee from 2001-03 and then again from 2006-present day? It was his job to know what was going on in Iraq, he is the one supplying information to the Bush Administration and advising them to attack Iraq.

Don't jack this thread with Sarah Palin talk, this is about Joe Biden. Sarah has her own thread, please post in that one.

Are you aware that Biden is also running for reelection? Must not be too confident in Obama pulling this off...

Please Cuba be honest! The Bush Administration runs the Executive Branch. The CIA reports to the President not Congress. Bush gets the last say on what gets disclosed to Congress. It is a fact, not opinion, that the Bush Administration deliberately misled (I'm being nice) Congress about the Sadam threat by redacting the National Intellegence Estimate to omit the CIA's assessment that Iraq possed no immediate threat to the US.

So don't try to turn the Democrats into the Warmongers here. Dick Cheney is the Warmonger and has made billions for Haliburton and Blackwater and who knows whoelse. If you want endless war, vote Republican, it is good for business

 

[Nelly]

People, I will state this once. Please keep all conversations non-confrontational. If you cannot post in a civil manner without name calling and personal attacks, the thread will be closed and offenders will be warned. A good clean debate is healthy for everyone. Please keep \"YOU\" and negative comments toward members OUT!

The Management

Please keep it civil as I am really enjoying the various points of view and the debating.
As a person far removed from the USA home affairs one thing is for sure who ever gets in to office has the expectations of the world on their shoulders. They will either win the Nobel prize or die trying.

Nelly

 

[Cuba]

Let's get back on track here, this isn't a Cheney or Palin discussion. I honestly want to hear your opinions on Biden, his checkered past and present, and why no one is reporting on it while the press attacks Palin mercilously for far less. It's been going on for days, "troopergate", the pregnant daughter, and the absurd and sexist "mother of 5 shouldn't be working" argument. Biden is prowar, he has a documented history of fabricating facts about himself and plagarizing others, he's very very closely involved with an active criminal investigation, the guy has scandal written all over him but nothing makes into the headlines. Did you guys even know that he is pro war? Or any of this information above? If you did then kudos for spending the time to dig up this information because it certainly isn't easy when virtually no media is reporting it.

 

[FZ1inNH]

Let's get back on track here, this isn't a Cheney or Palin discussion. I honestly want to hear your opinions on Biden, his checkered past and present, and why no one is reporting on it while the press attacks Palin mercilously for far less. It's been going on for days, \\"troopergate\\", the pregnant daughter, and the absurd and sexist \\"mother of 5 shouldn't be working\\" argument. Biden is prowar, he has a documented history of fabricating facts about himself and plagarizing others, he's very very closely involved with an active criminal investigation, the guy has scandal written all over him but nothing makes into the headlines. Did you guys even know that he is pro war? Or any of this information above? If you did then kudos for spending the time to dig up this information because it certainly isn't easy when virtually no media is reporting it.

Have you taken a look at his very own web site? Pro war.... I don't see this. Here's a quote from his site: "This Administration has dug us into a very deep hole internationally. We need to end the war in Iraq and to restore our place in the world." - Senator Joe Biden

Please take a look at his site and the issues tab and gather as much information as you can directly from him. Myself? I don't trust the media, Wiki, blogs, etc... If all else fails, I'm sure that someone in his office would respond to direct questions in e-mail should you seek the truth on Joe's stances.

This isn't just in regards to Biden, but all of the current front-runners. Don't hesitate to directly ask any of them in a letter or e-mail. Your best information will come directly from the source.

It's GREAT that we all have the freedom to question our Government. Thank the very next soldier you see in person!

*EDIT* Helps to include the site! Sorry all! http://usliberals.about.com/gi/dyna...&tt=11&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http://biden.senate.gov/

 

[hedmisten]

Wait a minute. My history is a little lacking here. Did you guys in OZ get to sit out World War II? Just asking... since that statement is a bit too broad for my taste.

Hotei

dang..and I thought that I edited my posts alot.

 

[hedmisten]

Let's get back on track here, this isn't a Cheney or Palin discussion. I honestly want to hear your opinions on Biden, his checkered past and present, and why no one is reporting on it while the press attacks Palin mercilously for far less. It's been going on for days, \"troopergate\", the pregnant daughter, and the absurd and sexist \"mother of 5 shouldn't be working\" argument. Biden is prowar, he has a documented history of fabricating facts about himself and plagarizing others, he's very very closely involved with an active criminal investigation, the guy has scandal written all over him but nothing makes into the headlines. Did you guys even know that he is pro war? Or any of this information above? If you did then kudos for spending the time to dig up this information because it certainly isn't easy when virtually no media is reporting it.

I didnt want to be the one to say it, but a lot of this is covered up due to the sympathy given from the tragedy of his family's death. While I don't think it is correct to hide his past, it is going to be continued to be hidden as long as the media brings up his family.

 

[wolfc70]

Let's get back on track here, this isn't a Cheney or Palin discussion. I honestly want to hear your opinions on Biden, his checkered past and present, and why no one is reporting on it while the press attacks Palin mercilously for far less. It's been going on for days, \\"troopergate\\", the pregnant daughter, and the absurd and sexist \\"mother of 5 shouldn't be working\\" argument. Biden is prowar, he has a documented history of fabricating facts about himself and plagarizing others, he's very very closely involved with an active criminal investigation, the guy has scandal written all over him but nothing makes into the headlines. Did you guys even know that he is pro war? Or any of this information above? If you did then kudos for spending the time to dig up this information because it certainly isn't easy when virtually no media is reporting it.

I just think Biden was an unispiring choice, a political insider and not really a "man of change". I understand the need to have more experience on a ticket. I wonder if Obama is not questioning his choice on Biden. Once the "Biden baggage" comes out, I think many liberals may feel that Biden was their decline in this race. I mean the guy had to withdraw his candidacy due to plagiarism in 1987. And digging up dirt on Biden is easy. Just use Google, "Biden Baggage, Biden dirt, Biden Problems, Biden Gaffes, Biden foot in mouth" et cetera.

 

[hedmisten]

??? what does that mean ???

just thought it was funny how your first 3 posts in this topic had to be edited. Just messing with you.:thumbup:

 

[FZ1inNH]

My personal opinion is both parties chose poorly and have left us, the voters, without a viable ticket to vote into the most powerful office in the free world. Again, just MY opinion.

 

[Cuba]

I just think Biden was an unispiring choice, a political insider and not really a \"man of change\". I understand the need to have more experience on a ticket. I wonder if Obama is not questioning his choice on Biden. Once the \"Biden baggage\" comes out, I think many liberals may feel that Biden was their decline in this race. I mean the guy had to withdraw his candidacy due to plagiarism in 1987. And digging up dirt on Biden is easy. Just use Google, \"Biden Baggage, Biden dirt, Biden Problems, Biden Gaffes, Biden foot in mouth\" et cetera.

Thanks! I'm still trying to get the resume details but this blurb seems to reference it.

From the Washington Post:

Joseph Biden's Plagiarism; Michael Dukakis's 'Attack Video' – 1988
Democratic presidential candidate Joseph R. Biden Jr., a U.S. senator from Delaware, was driven from the nomination battle after delivering, without attribution, passages from a speech by British Labor party leader Neil Kinnock. A barrage of subsidiary revelations by the press also contributed to Biden's withdrawal: a serious plagiarism incident involving Biden during his law school years; the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record at a New Hampshire campaign event; and the discovery of other quotations in Biden's speeches pilfered from past Democratic politicians.

 

[Cuba]

Have you taken a look at his very own web site? Pro war.... I don't see this. Here's a quote from his site: \\"This Administration has dug us into a very deep hole internationally. We need to end the war in Iraq and to restore our place in the world.\\" - Senator Joe Biden

Please take a look at his site and the issues tab and gather as much information as you can directly from him. Myself? I don't trust the media, Wiki, blogs, etc... If all else fails, I'm sure that someone in his office would respond to direct questions in e-mail should you seek the truth on Joe's stances.

This isn't just in regards to Biden, but all of the current front-runners. Don't hesitate to directly ask any of them in a letter or e-mail. Your best information will come directly from the source.

It's GREAT that we all have the freedom to question our Government. Thank the very next soldier you see in person!

*EDIT* Helps to include the site! Sorry all! About.com: http://biden.senate.gov/

I did look at his site. It is obviously extremely biased and I would be shocked if they mentioned anything that could be perceived as negative, hypocritical, or anti Obama. He voted with the Bush Administration all along though (not for the surge though, just everything else). I'd call that pro war. It's very inconvenient to be pro war these days, so blame it on the administration when you yourself voted for it! And advised the administration to do the same!

I found what I was looking for. Read this article outlining his plagarism, his phony past, and the long history he's had of just plain old fashioned making sh!t up.

Biden Also Plagiarized, Padded His Resume | Sweetness & Light

 

[Cuba]

"But we can’t seem to talk about what comes next without talking about Iraq. It’s obvious we must end the reign of Saddam Hussein. It would be unrealistic, if not downright foolish, to believe we can claim victory in the war on terrorism if Saddam is still in power."

– Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr. in Remarks On Saddam Hussein At The Center For Strategic And International Studies Forum, Washington, D.C., February 4, 2002