I like my FZ6 BUT...

[specialk]

I want ABS. what should I get?

Top runners:
1) 2006 VFR ABS
2) BMW F800ST (PRICE...OUCH)
3) FJR
4) ???

 

[razteo]

5) I would think twice before I'll buy an ABS bike.

Are you an experienced rider? What makes you want ABS on your bike, based on your experience/needs?
Have you did your homework (research) regarding ABS on motorcycles?
Do you live in California? (if so, why would you need such think?)

 

[RJ2112]

If you're willing to go to Canada, buy an SV650 with ABS, or the DL650. If you are feeling expecially froggy, bring in an ABS FZ6 from Europe.....

 

[specialk]

Razteo,

good questions...
I have not heard a bad thing about ABS except when riding in dirt (not going to do that).

I am a relatively inexperienced rider which is why I want ABS

I live in norcal, but it rains here and I commute year round

I want ABS because as much as I practice emergency braking, when its raining and you are coming up to an oil soaked intersection, I will take all the help I can get.

If you have some thoughts about why its a bad idea, I would love to know that as well.


the Euro FZ6 would be my ideal bike, but I'm not going to try and import one...nevermind to california

 

[(none)]

Keep looking, there are quite a few bikes made in the past few years with ABS.
-Most BMWs since early 90s had it at least as an option if not standard
-Triumph 1050 sprint/tiger
-Suzuki V-strom
-Honda ST1300 (ST1100?)
-i think the big KTM has it as an option
-Even newer Harleys

If you are looking for a viable FZ6 replacement, might want to check out the previous gen (1-cyl) BMW F650. They can be had pretty cheap and are a nice, small, light bike and many have ABS (and heated grips).

Don't listen to the naysayers, you don't need to be any kind of expert to get the benifits from ABS brakes (do you need to be a racecar driver to have it in your car?). My K1200RS had it and if we had FZ6s here in the states with it, i would have bought one of them. Its a marvelous thing to be able to slam on the brakes to avoid something on any road surface and just have the bike stop (pretty f'ing quickly) in a nice, steady straight line. One of the few things i miss on that bike.

 

[specialk]

thanks for the advice.

I actually want ABS because I AM NOT an expert.

I am leaning towards the VFr because I hear awesome things about them. THe only thing I dont like is the fact that it doesn't have much in the way of an alternator for electronic goodies.

 

[razteo]

Razteo,

good questions...
I have not heard a bad thing about ABS except when riding in dirt (not going to do that).

I am a relatively inexperienced rider which is why I want ABS

I live in norcal, but it rains here and I commute year round

I want ABS because as much as I practice emergency braking, when its raining and you are coming up to an oil soaked intersection, I will take all the help I can get.

If you have some thoughts about why its a bad idea, I would love to know that as well.


the Euro FZ6 would be my ideal bike, but I'm not going to try and import one...nevermind to california

specialk,

I'm sure the ABS is a advanced option on a bike, I was just asking you if you are in the position of knowing that this is what you want.
There is a lot of back & forth talking abut ABS pros & cons and I don't know what to say about that, but just make sure you don't relay on the ABS 100% and actually may develop skills and know how to gradually use the brakes, not just squeeze at the max & let the ABS do the job kind of thing.

Some people overestimating ABS capabilities. First, ABS cannot change the laws of physics. Second, on DRY pavement ABS may take longer to stop than an experience rider. Thirdly, (and related to the first) Some riders are already too close to the car in front of them and with ABS may stay in a very unsafe position with respect to a car.

The ABS would help you with high speed riding in the rain and with a surprise encounter with sand... but you should not to ride faster than you can see the surface conditions ahead of you anyway.

I also lived in Bay Area for a few years in late 90's & I know is raining more often the here in South. But I will suggest you that if they forecast rain, drive your car that day! You don't want to end under a truck without ABS.

The real point of ABS has never been to reduce stopping distances, it has been to allow locked wheels to regain traction and unlock, maintaining steering control. Metal brakes on a spinning wheel are much better at soaking up energy than rubber and asphalt on a locked wheel, so ABS does give you the side benefit of having better braking for some percentage of the time it's in operation.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zv3Sacl7JQ]YouTube - ABS vs. No ABS[/ame]

Personally, I prefer the non-ABS brakes simply because I feel like I have faster braking times, at least on dry pavement - but in reality you won't actually feel much of a difference. Plus, I live in LA
But eventually the ABS systems on the bikes will evolve & in the future it will be a standard feature, who knows?

Good luck with your choice!

 

[cv_rider]

Razteo, I think you're off-base here. I've not studied ABS to a huge extent, but as far as I've read, it's pretty well-accepted that you can stop faster in a straight line with ABS unless you are an expert rider who can keep the wheel just shy of locking. Most of us aren't that.

One of the other nice advantages of ABS is that you're less likely to be killed if your bike has it. 38% less likely in fact, according to the Insurance Institute of America.

I am not aware of any negative to ABS, other than its cost. If you are dumb enough to think that ABS makes you invincible, that would be a problem.

To me, ABS is a no-brainer if you are doing real-world riding (not sure if track is a different story) and you are a real-world rider. I imagine the only reaons it's not offered on FZ6 is that Mr Y didn't think we'd shell out an extra $600 for a safety feature on an otherwise pretty inexpensive bike. He was wrong about that. It is a glaring feature missing that has also caused me to ponder trading the FZ6 for a different model. I'd probably get the V-Strom 650, personally, as it seems pretty similar to FZ6 in some ways.

 

[Wavex]

+1 ABS just stops the wheel from locking... if you think you're an expert at braking, you will simply never use it... remember though that in some emergency situations, a lot of your skills go out the window...

No idea why anyone would NOT want ABS on their street bike other than the price/availability of it...

 

[emsee]

The SV650 is available with ABS: Suzuki Cycles - Product Lines - Cycles - Products - SV650 - 2009 - SV650SA

 

[(none)]

thanks for the advice.

I actually want ABS because I AM NOT an expert.

I am leaning towards the VFr because I hear awesome things about them. THe only thing I dont like is the fact that it doesn't have much in the way of an alternator for electronic goodies.

VFRs have quite a bit more electrical power than FZ6s, more than enough to run heated grips and accessories (even FZ6s have enough) and can run heated gear without an issue when on the highway or at least keeping up the RPMs. If you need enough power to run everything plus full heated gear for 2 people and a microwave, then you need a BMW K (brick type) or R bike or a Goldwing.

That being said, there are other reasons not to like the 6th gen VFRs, they are heavy, the VTEC does suck that much on many bikes (like both of mine), Valve checks are a PITA, and they have cooling issues.

Pluses: dead sexy looking, best headlights of any motorcycle, very good OEM luggage, V4 sound with a good exhaust at WOT.

specialk,

I'm sure the ABS is a advanced option on a bike, I was just asking you if you are in the position of knowing that this is what you want.
There is a lot of back & forth talking abut ABS pros & cons and I don't know what to say about that, but just make sure you don't relay on the ABS 100% and actually may develop skills and know how to gradually use the brakes, not just squeeze at the max & let the ABS do the job kind of thing.

Some people overestimating ABS capabilities. First, ABS cannot change the laws of physics. Second, on DRY pavement ABS may take longer to stop than an experience rider. Thirdly, (and related to the first) Some riders are already too close to the car in front of them and with ABS may stay in a very unsafe position with respect to a car.

The ABS would help you with high speed riding in the rain and with a surprise encounter with sand... but you should not to ride faster than you can see the surface conditions ahead of you anyway.

I also lived in Bay Area for a few years in late 90's & I know is raining more often the here in South. But I will suggest you that if they forecast rain, drive your car that day! You don't want to end under a truck without ABS.

The real point of ABS has never been to reduce stopping distances, it has been to allow locked wheels to regain traction and unlock, maintaining steering control. Metal brakes on a spinning wheel are much better at soaking up energy than rubber and asphalt on a locked wheel, so ABS does give you the side benefit of having better braking for some percentage of the time it's in operation.

Personally, I prefer the non-ABS brakes simply because I feel like I have faster braking times, at least on dry pavement - but in reality you won't actually feel much of a difference. Plus, I live in LA
But eventually the ABS systems on the bikes will evolve & in the future it will be a standard feature, who knows?

Good luck with your choice!

Gotta disagree with about everything you said. ABS allows a person to practice threshold braking in the safest way possible. It allows the rider to ride all day right up to that limit and cross it, without the worries of going down.
No one mentioned anything about ABS on bikes being used to help steer. If you are on the brakes that hard and steering, you are definitely no expert. ABS allows the rider to use all the tracking available to stop the bike with practically no worries of one end washing out.

 

[C-bus Biker]

I think the F800 is over-rated. I really don't think you'll gain anything over the FZ6 with it... other than being able to say that you ride a BMW. My opinion, and we all have them. :thumbup:

 

[deeptekkie]

A non-Yamaha dealer, (who at the time had some Suzuki Bandits sitting on his showroom floor with/without ABS), said he wouldn't have one with ABS. That's all I know.

 

[PB Hand]

I would echo the recommendation of a BMW, if you're wanting ABS. However, rather than the F800 (which honestly look quite cheap), I'd go for the K1200RT (what's 18k?). :Flash:

If you haven't yet, I would recommend taking an advanced riding course prior to spending a bunch of money on a new bike. Even with ABS, you still need the skill to get the bike upright and keep it straight while braking. And, you may find you're comfortable enough without it.

 

[razteo]

guilty of having a different opinion

deeptekkie

Looks like I am very wrong.
I have to confess: I am no expert in ABS, and those were just my thoughts - but looks like I start pissing off some people that know pretty much everything about this topic.
This wasn't my intention - I just had a different opinion than them, that's all.
Please accept my apologise for posting such wrong things.

razteo

 

[specialk]

I hope no one is getting too tangled up about others' opinions.

this thread is actually getting some very useful information especially from people who own some of the bikes that I am looking at.

like i said, I love my fz but even though I practice threshold braking and have taken lee parks total control levels 1 an 2, i just don't trust myself enough to have confidence that I will not lock the wheels when I really have to panic stop (god forbid).

any other information or bike suggestions would really be appreciated. thanks again guys

 

[Rob2222]

I would get an FZ6 with ABS from anywhere ....

May I copy this post: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...ould-i-buy-fz6-s2-without-abs.html#post142658

Hi all,

I drive motorcycle since 14 years now, and I am driving almost in any conditions. The motorcycle is my main and only vehicle. But I try to avoid ice and snow cause it raises the risk of damaging my bike exponentially imho. In that 14 years I had 2 low speed crashes and 2 high speed crashes. Before the last high speed crash (deer accident, no chance to brake, with 100km/h - 62mph, ABS had not could help here) I drove 10 years accident free and feel very safe (regarding my biking experience) on my bike.
But I really!!! think that 90% of the bikers can't fullfill a accurate emergency brake in an chaotic emergency situation. I think that even with my 14 years experience (and I really enjoy hard accelerating and braking) I will not match the optimum braking pressure.
I think in a emergency situation where you just have millisecs to react, you will brake to hard (and touch down) or brake to low (cause you know how hard the bike is to handle if the front wheel started to slide).

I just switched from a FZ6 without ABS to a FZ6 with ABS and wow .... what is this for a difference. I had to play with my new goodie (ABS) and its easy to get it in regulation as soon the street is a little wet. After feeling comfortable with hitting the rear brake full until the ABS starts, I started to practice to use the front brake until the ABS starts. THIS is anyhow strange. After 14 years learning how to brake good front without going down, to hit the front brake full. But as the first fear was gone, I really love it. I was really happy about the system that I provoke the ABS to start at almost every traffic light.
My opinion is you can't practice emergency maneuvers often enough and you have to "know" your bike.

The (my) positives of ABS are:
a) You brake (much) stronger in any situation cause you did not have to fear wheel locks.
b) You (I) feel MUCH! more relaxed while riding in bad conditions, like rain aso. Even this more relaxed feel is a really big safety aspect imho.

It's a very very very good feeling to know you have ABS under your butt. I think this can only understand riders that had a touchdown cause a slipping front wheel.

But even ABS can't safe your ass when you go to fast (or to deep) in a turn where the street is slippery.

I even would not say "only buy a bike with ABS" BUT I REALLY HAVE TO DISAGREE with some meanings like "ahh, you probably wont need it" or that it depends on the bike type if you need it or not.

The best braking performance is short before the lock. And this counts for EVERY bike. Its hard to match this even with experience and I think it's almost impossible to match this in an emergency situation.

ABS is a real safety aspect and WILL save your ass in some situations. The only question is, if you will come in such a situation or not OR what are the correct numbers of the lottery next weekend.

So the final question for the thread starter is "You want more safety or not". And to answer this question you must have some riding experience and a feeling which situations can occur and how the propabilities for that situation are. For me the result was: I want it! and I sold my FZ6 without ABS. Even where ABS just would have saved my ass in 1 of my 4 crashes.

For me the answer to your question is: Try to get a good FZ6 with ABS. If you can't get another bike, purchase the FZ6, cause a FZ6 without ABS is still much better than no FZ6.
But try to get a ABS one if you have the chance to.

Best regards
Robert

EDIT: Just a notice how a good braking maneuver _must_ be done: You start braking medium until the fork goes down. NOW when the fork is down (and not earlier) you have more pressure on the front wheel that you can get more max breaking performance and put more power in the brakes. (This is a analog manual to learn stoppies, even with ABS this works )
You can practice this and after practise you can brake very good. But I doubt that most people (I count me too in there) can make this in a emergency situation when you are surprised by the situation.

 

[Red Wazp]

FJR... Love mine with the ABS. Great long distance bike with decent weather protection. Sure wish the Amercian FZ had it. If you want a smaller bike the SV or Bandit with ABS would be good and much cheaper than Beemer.
ABS rocks!

 

[SANGER_A2]

5) I would think twice before I'll buy an ABS bike.

I cannot think of any negatives of ABS except it costs more. I have it on my FZ6. It's kicked in several times on the back wheel in mud/panic etc and probably saved me from skids/crashes. I will never buy a bike without it now. There are lots of great articles on ABS on the Internet and demonstrations on YouTube.

I think the VFR is an awesome bike too. Probably the only bike I'd buy apart from the FZ6, except maybe the FZ1. Maybe an upgrade in a couple of years. The bandit is also an amazing bike, especially the ABS 1250 version. The 650 is a smoother engine than the FZ6, just not as nice looking, heavier and taller. I rode one before I bought my FZ6.

 

[Kriswithak]

The main down side to ABS is it doesn't teach people how to break properly and you end up with riders or to a larger extent drivers who really have no understanding of the limits they are facing on the road and constantly drive or ride outside their limits because they are using the ABS as a crutch. I read an article a while back which linked alot of youth accidents with the fact most learn in a parent or guardians car with ABS, but when its time to drive themselves they obviously have to buy something cheaper, with no such benefits, and just don't have the skills that are required driving a non ABS vehicle.

Also every article I have read about ABS has said:
"You won't even notice the ABS is there"
The only way most of the test riders could even tell was by doing something stupid to find out if it worked.

Those figures about how much safer you are with ABS sound like total bull@$)& probably based on car safety figures.

Honestly if you really feel like you need ABS on a bike you probably want to assess whether you should be spending the money on advanced riding courses, they WILL improve your skills and road safety.
Realistically you have to be doing something wrong to need ABS, and motorcycling is about avoiding doing the wrong thing all the time, not using stopgap measures to try and limit damage.

Also if you can't handle a 600 without ABS suggestions to look at a 1000 seem a bit irresponsible.

While ABS certainly gets alot of good reviews from the industry you actually need to read between the lines, times are tough practically every new release is better than the invention of sliced bread, and all the reviewers, mags and publishers are doing nothing but swamp all new products with praise. How much of this is actually deserved? 12 months ago all my local mags where full of good useful comparisons, now you won't hear a bad word about anything unless its a total peice of crap that even they can't sugar coat. This is probably due to the fact the industry is struggling and anything to get people to join the industry is worth it, especially when manufacturers are probably paying for the attention.
Add in the fact they'll attract non riders with the whole "ABS SAFETY" crap and you just end up with more unskilled riders killing themselves because of marketing.

Anyway in the end its up to you, but I hope you look a little deeper into this because from what I've read you seem a bit insecure, and seem to think paying money will fix this instead of time, practice and honing your skills.