Hardest technique to master?

[Simona]

Not sure about the hardest technique to master, cos they're all tricky to master, but one technique that springs to mind that I struggle with is more applicable to track than road. Breaking hard from high speed on the straight, and trying to gear down and blipping the throttle between downshifts. A lot of racers do this (Rossi, Stoner) some dont. A lot of trackday punters do it and some dont. And most of my mates do it and I dont. (I cant). I just break hard and when I get to the desired corner speed, I pull clutch, gear down accordingly and match the engine speed to the wheel speed using the clutch to transition smoothly before I turn in. I guess my way works for me, but watching the pro's gearing down and blipping the throttle, I always felt like I was doing something wrong. Until I read an article by Mick Doohan who thinks its pointless trying to go down one gear at a time and blip the throttle while breaking hard. He would just break hard, select correct gear for the turn match wheel speed to engine speed and use the clutch to make the transition smooth. I felt better after reading that. Cos I could never really could do that whole gearing down while breaking hard thingy while blipping...

 

[Sinman]

I'm a new rider, and have been riding bicycles on and off road for decades. Throttle control is very difficult, on the pedal bikes, hand position is entirely dependent on cornering, weight shifting, braking, shifting, none of which relate to rolling a spring loaded grip controlling 85 hp!! Also, starting from a stop uphill.

 

[Misti]

Wow, css level 1 was the best day of training I've had ever. I've attended 3 other courses by different companies and CSS was by far the most comprehensive and understandable one of them all. I reckon I improved my technique more in that 1 day than I have by my self in the last 2 years at least.

Throttle control. The first lesson, and is actually (for me) the hardest technique to master. Sure it's not hard when your casually riding along, but when your riding a bit harder your spending a fair chunk of your $10 on doing other things. Throttle control becomes more difficult. I'm now constantly practising smooth throttle control.

Turn points. Great exercise, big X at the start of every turn to indicate where we should make the steering input. Takes a few of the decisions away from us (students) and combined with staying in 3rd or 4th gear allows us to concentrate on the drill. I found using the turn points that even though they were deeper into the corner than where I would have turned from, they provided much more vision of the remainder of the corner and I felt like I had more time and space.

Quick turning. Make 1 steering input. The harder and longer you push on the bars dictates how fast the bike leans over and how far. I was always afraid that the front wheel would fly out from under me lol I was assured by all the CSS staff and instructors that they have never, ever seen this happen. I took their word for it and tried and to my surprise, it worked. I was flicking the bike. wow

Rider input. The less busy you are the better. Stay neutral on the bars, grip tank with knees, keep back relaxed. Sometimes I would stiffen up on the bars, causing the bike to run wide. There were two off-camber corners I was doing this on. I wasn't confident my tyres would hold. 1/2 way through one of these corners I fought this survival reaction and forced myself to stay relaxed and to let the front end do it's thing - it was amazing, the bike immediately started to stay on it's line, and it didn't run wide :cheer:

Two-step turning. This is an introduction to a level 2 skill/drill. This technique helped a lot breaking down the approach and entry into a turn. Consciously using peripheral vision and looking as far ahead into the turn to create a more realistic impression of speed. I wasn't feeling so rushed and felt very much in control during this drill.

Everything I'd learned during the day came together nicely for a few sections of the track, it was an amazing feeling, tipping into turn 1 after blazing down the straight. 3-4 bikes around me, registering their presence, but not being spooked or target fixating. All of us almost moving as one, picking up our bikes then tipping into turn two oh man I nearly wet myself I was so happy rofl.

I highly recommend these courses to anyone riding a motor cycle. Even if you aren't into track days, the skills taught are universal and will increase your enjoyment of riding.

Thank you CSS for coming to Queensland Raceway, I'm already signed up for Level 2 in September :rockon:

Excellent write up! Glad you had an amazing time and that you learned a lot in the process. Level 2 is all about visual skills (which are of paramount importance when riding). I am constantly practicing the 2-step from level 1 and the visual skills from level 2. I hope you enjoy it as much as you did the first level

Please feel free to ask me any questions about any of the techniques from level 1 or anything about what to expect from the next levels I like talking about coaching and riding technique!

Happy riding.
Misti

 

[DownrangeFuture]

I forgot all about this thread. lol It's cool to see posts from 2 years ago and how I've grown as a rider. I got pretty hard into the Keith Code stuff. Actually it's about time to review twist of the wrist II again.

To answer my own question from back then (braking and turning) the fastest way and proper way is to come out of the turn as normal and then brake hard. Don't put yourself in a situation where you might need to do "survival reactions" during a turn. Or, in other words, don't ride beyond your ability. My problem then was that I was pretty much at my skill limit during the turn, and when the guy cut across 3 lanes... well, at least I was okay. I should have known my exit, and probably just went around instead of braking.

As far as how I was turning back then, my MSF instructor even said "lean to turn" as if body steering is what made the bike turn. Now I set up my body position, then begin to brake, downshift as the engine requires (still trying to master that "heel-toe" race shift), find my apex, let off the brakes as I begin my turn in, start my smooth throttle roll on as I continue to look through the turn for the exit. Once I see the exit, I start standing the bike up again with a push on the outside clip-on, then get back on the throttle as appropriate and fix my body position.

I've been riding the clutch a lot recently though and coasting the turns, which is why I say it's time to review the cornering bible. Although, that might be due to the overly aggressive clutch springs the PO put in the bike. Smooth clutch control is almost impossible when the clutch is so stiff you can barely pull the lever with one hand. And I guarantee the bike doesn't need springs that stiff.

 

[FIZZER6]

The hardest technique for me to master currently after 8 years of street riding is to NOT react by chopping the throttle or applying brakes if I lose traction or encounter an obstacle in my immediate path.

It's a subconscious battle I wage every time I ride... "Ok, no survival reactions, smooth and stable, light on the bars, stay on the gas and keep your eyes focused on where you are going!"

 

[rider1a]

For me, it is turning around a (heavy) bike on a steep incline laden down with gear.

 

[Misti]

The hardest technique for me to master currently after 8 years of street riding is to NOT react by chopping the throttle or applying brakes if I lose traction or encounter an obstacle in my immediate path.

It's a subconscious battle I wage every time I ride... "Ok, no survival reactions, smooth and stable, light on the bars, stay on the gas and keep your eyes focused on where you are going!"

You need to come to the Superbike School and try out the slide bike

This is definitely a hard technique to master because everything in your body says that the best thing to do in that situation is to chop the throttle or get on the brakes when those are the worst things that you could do. It takes a lot of effort and training to be able to break free of those survival reactions and teach yourself how to do the right thing in a panic situation.

The slide bike at the school is a great training aid to help with this situation, what other things could you do (or practice) to get more comfortable with dealing with a sliding motorcycle? How else could you practice dealing with loss of traction?

Misti

 

[Ssky0078]

I would have to say carrying higher speeds into corners. Secondly is not chopping throttle with loss of traction.

My first crash that totaled my Fz6 was a result of me sliding out the back end on some gravel, chopping the throttle, stopping myself from high siding and not being able to recover to keep it on the road. For a long time, about 6000 miles, actually not till after my canyon riding adventure in CA I found myself taking corners very cautiously.

What I learned was to get on the balls of my feet on the pegs, shift my weight in the seat, keep loose on the bars with bent elbows, point inside knee where I want to go and use to balance, head up and where I want to go, even throttle response until I can see the out and then roll on. If I start to feel like the rear is losing traction in this scenario I will usually stand the bike up more but maintain body position and throttle. Basically try to increase contact patch for the tire

 

[Timon]

You need to come to the Superbike School and try out the slide bike

This is definitely a hard technique to master because everything in your body says that the best thing to do in that situation is to chop the throttle or get on the brakes when those are the worst things that you could do. It takes a lot of effort and training to be able to break free of those survival reactions and teach yourself how to do the right thing in a panic situation.

The slide bike at the school is a great training aid to help with this situation, what other things could you do (or practice) to get more comfortable with dealing with a sliding motorcycle? How else could you practice dealing with loss of traction?

Misti

Buy a beater bike and find a huge, empty parking lot... :Sport:

I've actually debated trying to pick up another 250 (I owned one before my FZ6) taking the fairings off, and doing exactly that. Not trying to break it by any means, but try to break the survival reactions.

Super bike school is probably a better, less potentially painful option though. Too bad there isn't anywhere in Utah that has them.

 

[Misti]

Buy a beater bike and find a huge, empty parking lot... :Sport:

I've actually debated trying to pick up another 250 (I owned one before my FZ6) taking the fairings off, and doing exactly that. Not trying to break it by any means, but try to break the survival reactions.

Super bike school is probably a better, less potentially painful option though. Too bad there isn't anywhere in Utah that has them.

Superbike School visits Miller Motorsports Park in Utah in July
What an AWESOME TRACK that is!!!

 

[Misti]

I forgot all about this thread. lol It's cool to see posts from 2 years ago and how I've grown as a rider. I got pretty hard into the Keith Code stuff. Actually it's about time to review twist of the wrist II again.

To answer my own question from back then (braking and turning) the fastest way and proper way is to come out of the turn as normal and then brake hard. Don't put yourself in a situation where you might need to do "survival reactions" during a turn. Or, in other words, don't ride beyond your ability. My problem then was that I was pretty much at my skill limit during the turn, and when the guy cut across 3 lanes... well, at least I was okay. I should have known my exit, and probably just went around instead of braking.

As far as how I was turning back then, my MSF instructor even said "lean to turn" as if body steering is what made the bike turn. Now I set up my body position, then begin to brake, downshift as the engine requires (still trying to master that "heel-toe" race shift), find my apex, let off the brakes as I begin my turn in, start my smooth throttle roll on as I continue to look through the turn for the exit. Once I see the exit, I start standing the bike up again with a push on the outside clip-on, then get back on the throttle as appropriate and fix my body position.

I've been riding the clutch a lot recently though and coasting the turns, which is why I say it's time to review the cornering bible. Although, that might be due to the overly aggressive clutch springs the PO put in the bike. Smooth clutch control is almost impossible when the clutch is so stiff you can barely pull the lever with one hand. And I guarantee the bike doesn't need springs that stiff.

Very cool! Sounds like you have certainly grown a lot as a rider over the past 2 years! And, as you say, you have just noticed that you are riding the clutch and coasting through the turns so perhaps it is time to review (and yes a tough clutch might have something to do with it but you still shouldn't be coasting through the turn

Thanks for posting!

 

[Misti]

What about the first skill to go? If you take a break from riding, what is the first skill that becomes rusty? Or the hardest one to get back after time away?

 

[Nelly]

What about the first skill to go? If you take a break from riding, what is the first skill that becomes rusty? Or the hardest one to get back after time away?

I had a 3 month lay off a while ago, and the thing that immediately struck me was the loss of speed perception which reduced my ability to match and judge speed with moving traffic when overtaking.
A couple of times I completely messed up my approaching speed to a moving car and the speed of the oncoming traffic. It completely threw me for 3-4 days. I guess that this is a contributing factor to seasonal rider accidents.

Nelly

 

[Misti]

I had a 3 month lay off a while ago, and the thing that immediately struck me was the loss of speed perception which reduced my ability to match and judge speed with moving traffic when overtaking.
A couple of times I completely messed up my approaching speed to a moving car and the speed of the oncoming traffic. It completely threw me for 3-4 days. I guess that this is a contributing factor to seasonal rider accidents.

Nelly

Hmmmmm, good point. Perception of speed is a pretty important skill So when you do take a break and then get back into riding what might be something you could do in order to brush up on your speed perception? Or how might you be able to keep your perception of speed sharp even when you aren't riding as much as you like?

 

[Nelly]

Hmmmmm, good point. Perception of speed is a pretty important skill So when you do take a break and then get back into riding what might be something you could do in order to brush up on your speed perception? Or how might you be able to keep your perception of speed sharp even when you aren't riding as much as you like?

I have decided to make a really concerted effort to actually get to know my bike again by practicing my forward observation skills and basically getting back into the grove with relearning brake feel and motor feel. As for practice I'm not so sure what to do when I'm off the bike as I drive the car like a pensioner and rarely overtake other vehicles.

Nelly

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[Misti]

I have decided to make a really concerted effort to actually get to know my bike again by practicing my forward observation skills and basically getting back into the grove with relearning brake feel and motor feel. As for practice I'm not so sure what to do when I'm off the bike as I drive the car like a pensioner and rarely overtake other vehicles.

Nelly

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Hahaha even if you are driving your car like a "pensioner" you could still practice some visual skills that would help with riding. Pay attention to how far ahead you are looking when driving, do you notice things that are happening way ahead of you or are you staring at the bumper in front of you? What about the WIDTH of your field of vision? How wide is your field of view? Do you see from one edge of your car to the other or do you see the entire width of the road?

How might Widening your field of view help with overall speed perception?

 

[Nelly]

My forward observational skills have always been pretty good. I rarely focus on the car in front of me other than to acknowledged their potential lane change or their slowing down. I also try to keep an eye on the car in front of the car to preempt how their driving is going to effect the guy in front of me.
I made that mistake once of riding on taillights when riding in fog when I was a mc courier, I lost the car in front and ended up in a ditch. I believe forward observations have saved me from real harm more times than I care to count. I am als contentious about side street and pedestrian scanning.
When drive the car I do practice road positioning. Not racing line but where will I get max forward vision. I try to use all of the road.
After reading a recent mc article I have also adopted the "SMIDSU" defensive driving approach.

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[kenh]

My forward observational skills have always been pretty good. I rarely focus on the car in front of me other than to acknowledged their potential lane change or their slowing down. I also try to keep an eye on the car in front of the car to preempt how their driving is going to effect the guy in front of me.
I made that mistake once of riding on taillights when riding in fog when I was a mc courier, I lost the car in front and ended up in a ditch. I believe forward observations have saved me from real harm more times than I care to count. I am als contentious about side street and pedestrian scanning.
When drive the car I do practice road positioning. Not racing line but where will I get max forward vision. I try to use all of the road.
After reading a recent mc article I have also adopted the "SMIDSU" defensive driving approach.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

I too have to lay off for the winter and it takes a ride or two to feel comfortable on the bike. But this more related to the controls rather than speed. Over the years I have spent time around racetracks working different positions from everything from club racing to indycar, but one of the underlying skills that one must practice is judgement of speed. Things happen very quickly and you have to try stay calm and aware of the situation.
I believe all drivers could benefit from some track time to aid with perception of speed.

Now back on topic, I like to drive through the car in front me also and look beyond at traffic. The caveat, however is not to forget that you have a vehicle in front you. I suppose you could say that I enjoy some spirited driving when I am not riding. This is not crazy driving, but having a little fun when it is safe to do so. An example would be recently when I drove my kids into a vacant snow covered parking lot to demonstrate understeer and oversteer and do a couple of donuts.
My awareness is heightened for sure while riding, but I think if drive like you ride so to speak you may find the refamiliarity period is very short. IMHO


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[Misti]

I too have to lay off for the winter and it takes a ride or two to feel comfortable on the bike. But this more related to the controls rather than speed. Over the years I have spent time around racetracks working different positions from everything from club racing to indycar, but one of the underlying skills that one must practice is judgement of speed. Things happen very quickly and you have to try stay calm and aware of the situation.
I believe all drivers could benefit from some track time to aid with perception of speed.

Now back on topic, I like to drive through the car in front me also and look beyond at traffic. The caveat, however is not to forget that you have a vehicle in front you. I suppose you could say that I enjoy some spirited driving when I am not riding. This is not crazy driving, but having a little fun when it is safe to do so. An example would be recently when I drove my kids into a vacant snow covered parking lot to demonstrate understeer and oversteer and do a couple of donuts.
My awareness is heightened for sure while riding, but I think if drive like you ride so to speak you may find the refamiliarity period is very short. IMHO


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Being able to see more of the traffic in front of you and around you definitely helps with your perception of speed. Your sense of speed goes up if you have a narrow field of view or if you are looking down at the road and not far enough ahead of you. But one thing that can happen regardless of whether or not you are looking far ahead or not is that you can get target fixated on something. How do you avoid that tendency to stare at the very object or thing that you don't want to be looking at? Would anyone care to share their stories of target fixating or avoiding target fixating on something? :cheer:

 

[raja777m]

For me,
1. I unconsciously apply the brake (not actual brake with pressure), but the light is turned on, confusing the person behind me.
I'm planning to get a small LED light to put it under the visor, connected to my rear brake light, so when I apply brakes even when I'm accelerating, it'll alert me.

2. Back in India, we have a small device which gives sound when we use the turn signals,
a. It is loud enough for the person beside you can hear it and let him know your thoughts of turning
b. It helps remind me you to turn off your indicators.
Its been 4+ years I rode daily being a cager for these past years, I keep forgetting here (in USA) to turn the indicators off.