Ground up metal bits in oil....?

[616ah]

Hi all. Changed both the oil AND filter for the first time since I bought the bike recently - long story short - there are ground up metal bits in the oil. I changed only the oil mid season last summer and noted a bit of a "sparkle" to the used oil - since this is my first experience with a bike I thought it was due to clutch wear, so didn't worry about it. I changed the oil at the end of the season and stored it for the winter. This spring I bought the needed filter wrench and changed the filter. When I set the filter in a drain bucket to empty it, liquid metal ran out. So then I cut the filter open. Sure enough - metal flakes in it. Looks like the remains of a bearing to me however the bike seems to work well... Odd. Here I go.

BTW - 2500km on the bike when I bought it, 7500 when I changed the oil, and now has 10000kms.

I have no reason to suspect vandalism. Any thoughts on what may have failed at this low milage?

 

[MarinaFazer]

man, no idea...bump for help.

 

[Fred]

All I can think is,"That's not good."

I wouldn't even try to ride it. If it were mine, I'd start pulling covers off of the engine until I found the problem.

I'd remove the oilpan first. It'll need to be cleaned out regardless. Look for any sign that the bottom end bearings have a problem.

Pull the valve cover to have a look at the cams and cam bearings.

Basically, you're going to be tearing down the engine until you find the problem. And then you'll either be fixing the damage or buying a new engine.

If you fix it, go absolutely mental on oil and filter changes, like one every five minutes, to get the rest of that metal out of the engine.

Fred

 

[Hellgate]

I think you are fine. Without seeing what you mean by liquid metal its a little difficult, but unless it like Terminator liquid metal you're good.

If you dumped the oil filter out you see all kinds of bits, that sparkle dust you're referring to.

If you are really worried have an oil analysis done before you begin taking parts off.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/motorcycle.html

 

[Wildcard]

Wait, so this is your first FILTER change?

 

[chemicalsmile]

Is it possible that the oil/filter was never changed since the initial break-in? I know mine looked like sparkely fairy goo the first couple changes I did after buying mine new but of course that was at 50 and 200 miles IIRC. Either way I'd get high quality filter and oil stat

 

[wildman]

its an '06, do you still have any warranty left? I'd call up your local shop and ask them.... If its nothing, then its nothing... But if its something bad, I'd want to know asap before I go out riding.

 

[Fred]

Wait, so this is your first FILTER change?

He said he bought it recently, and the bike's an 06, so I'm assuming that he bought it used.

 

[616ah]

All I can think is,"That's not good."

I wouldn't even try to ride it. If it were mine, I'd start pulling covers off of the engine until I found the problem.

I'd remove the oilpan first. It'll need to be cleaned out regardless. Look for any sign that the bottom end bearings have a problem.

Pull the valve cover to have a look at the cams and cam bearings.

Basically, you're going to be tearing down the engine until you find the problem. And then you'll either be fixing the damage or buying a new engine.

If you fix it, go absolutely mental on oil and filter changes, like one every five minutes, to get the rest of that metal out of the engine.

Fred

Thats about what I thought. Didn't seem like it could be good. I reasoned that the wet clutch could contaminate some amount, but not big flakes. I figure that for the stuff to get into the filter the big chunks have at least been through the oil pump. I guess the first step is to pull the oil pan and confirm then decide where to go.

Geez, I was sorta expecting this thing would last a bit longer than this.

In response to wildcard - yes, this is the first time I have changed the filter as it had just been serviced when I purchased the bike used. According to the manual the filter is to be changed every other oil change.

Chances are that I won't get to it until the weekend. Will post what I find as a search turns up little. Thanks all.

 

[Mattberkshire]

:needpics:

 

[SovietRobot]

It's possible the previous owner didn't change the oil at the right intervals and got lazy.

Only 2500km/1550 miles? Most of the "good" wear comes during that period. It's normal to see metal flakes during that period, and you're supposed to change the oil more often.

If you were experiencing this at 10k or 20k miles then there would be a big problem.

 

[Hollywood416]

I doubt there are any problems. Anytime you dump an oil filter your going to see metal flakes it's all part of engine wearing in especially the first 5k miles. You've got shavings coming off the clutch plates, crank bearings, piston rings, assembly debris etc. etc. As long as you don't see chunks.....i.e. actual pieces of metal your fine which you WILL have if something comes apart. If your worried run the old oil through a strainer and make sure there is nothing other than flakes. Besides if anything was actually wrong you'd know, it wouldn't run right or you'd hear something rattling, pinging, knocking.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Your not going to get metal particles from the clutch wearing, the clutch consists of friction material (fiberous) and steel plates held together in a clutch basket. The steel plates do not shred steel bits but generally warp from abuse and get thinner with time. The fiberous plates wear(go away) with time but won't leave shiny particles.. I would do an oil analysis and change the oil/filter asap. Run it a hundred miles and recheck the filter and change again (change everything). As stated above, if something majorly was wrong, you'd hear it and it'd be acting up....

 

[616ah]

Thanks for the responses.

:needpics: I'll get pics ASAP (tomorrow?) as they sure tell it better.

This is my first bike so I am fairly inexperienced in what is to be considered normal deposits in motorcycle oil. Normal deposits for the wet clutch is my main question as anything else in there should not be wearing enough to cause visable deposits really, IMO.

It grabbed my attention because if this type of thing drained out of an automotive crankcase or filter I would have instantly paniced.

I have no running concerns with the engine (noise etc). The bike seems to drive well also which makes me think I'm nuts. The only time that I get any noise is quiet rattle type noise near the clutch cover when the clutch is out in N. Squeeze the clutch and noise is gone. (input shaft bearings? clutch issues? normal?) I had always assumed this was normal mechacical noise, but now I'm thinking possibly not.

Perhapse I panic to easily, IDK.

 

[oxfz6]

my bike has the same noise when in nuetral with the clutch out, and goes away when pulled in. We should be able to come to a conclusion with some pics. Metal in the oil during running in period is ok, and you will probably have silver oil on the 2nd change. But solid metal lumps is not good. :thumbup:

 

[616ah]

Here is a pic of the end of the filter cartridge as it was when I pulled it out of the filter housing after cutting the other end open. Just dosn't seem like it could be good...

View attachment 17492

 

[616ah]

Thanks for all the opinions and sharing your experiences. I suspected that the light clutch noise might be normal but as it seems to be the only thing that seems at all noisy as heard from the outside it is easy to blame... The second owner had the bike serviced and Inspected for the safty standards cert at the same time around 1000km - before I bought the bike at 2500kms. I did the 7000km service (oil change). If anything I am changing the oil more frequently than Yamaha recomends... So I don't think I'm lacking in maint. A good thing to note is that there is not a bypass valve in the Yamaha filter, so any debris are totally trapped - can't speak for the other filters as I only use OEM. Perhapse I should take the filter and ask the dealer service what they think? Your thoughts are appriciated.

 

[zixxerboy]

I often cut open the used filter after a change "just to see". And a little metal seams fairly common. That said I just got my FZ and havn't yet done an oil change on it.

 

[wolfc70]

The metal looks like gear wear to me. Take a magnet and see if the metal is ferrous. It the metal sticks to the magnet, it is gear wear, if it does not stick (non ferrous), then you may have some form of bearing wear. When the gear box and the engine share oil, it is prudent to have good oil filtration as gears constantly shed small bits of metal, although you should see less and less as wear patterns develop.

I would change the oil and filter, run 100-200 miles and change the oil and filter. Cut it apart and see what is in there. I have a feeling this was the second time the filter was changed, and you may have metal left over from break in. I changed my oil and filter at 300, 600 and 1000 miles, and every time I had metal shavings in the oil, though each time it got less and less.

 

[616ah]

Thanks wolfc70. The more that I think about the gear thing it seems to be the only thing that makes sense. The metal is magnetic as far as that goes. Seems that if there was a problem with a bearing sheding that much metal I'd know about it by now. Anything that falls into the pan settles and is filtered before being pumped through the engine so further damage should be minimal. I would guess it possible for the lower gears to shear and wear in for a while as most of the load is transfered through 6th gear since I mainly commute on the highways. I think at this point I will consult a dealer (when I can get there) then decide what to do. Might be best just to monitor - or at least pull the pan to see. Perhapse I panic to easily... I hope. Thanks to everyone for the input. :thumbup: