FZ6 w/ Scorpion Exhaust w/o Power Comander?

[sxty8goats]

I have scorpions, no pc and it runs great. I'm about to put in a k&n and after reading maybe I shouldn't. I don't want to add a pc just for an air filter.

I have a PCIII for sale.

 

[Rolltider11]

I have a PCIII for sale.

How much? Or I got stuff to trade.

 

[BlackMilk]

Do you have an aftermarket exhaust? Because all the issues you listed were solved by an exhaust on my red bike. That is one of the things that got me thinking about removing the PCIII from Blue bike to try to improve the mileage on that one.

I plan on buying a set of scorpions shortly but there's no way just changing the cans would have fixed my issues. The on / off throttle was terrible before the PCV.

I plan on proving this by fitting a switch to the PCV that allows instant switching between two maps. So when I get the cans I can switch between stock and modded maps while riding to test the difference :rockon:

 

[sxty8goats]

I plan on buying a set of scorpions shortly but there's no way just changing the cans would have fixed my issues. The on / off throttle was terrible before the PCV.

I plan on proving this by fitting a switch to the PCV that allows instant switching between two maps. So when I get the cans I can switch between stock and modded maps while riding to test the difference :rockon:

Honestly the on/off nature of the throttle didn't seem to change between the PCIII installed or out of the bike. I used to have a real issue with it but I learned to ride in a slightly higher RPM range. So it is never 'off' unless I'm at a stop sign. For a few years I rode the two bikes, both with aftermarket exhaust, and one with the PCIII. Not sure of the map because it was on the bike when I bought it. I would be hard pressed to find a differance between the way the two bikes rode or the amount of HP either had. I took the PCIII off because the only real differance I felt/saw was gas mileage. 52+/- on the bike w/o the PCIII and 35+/- on the bike with.

 

[BlackMilk]

I used to have a real issue with it but I learned to ride in a slightly higher RPM range. So it is never 'off' unless I'm at a stop sign.

When I'm coming into a corner I let the throttle off change down gears while breaking into a suitable gear that I can then start to accelerate around and out of the corner in the powerband.

How are you able to brake without letting the throttle off
It is going from braking into a corner to accelerating around it I felt it wasn't smooth enough.

Ps. Sorry if I've taken this thread the wrong direction.

 

[sxty8goats]

When I'm coming into a corner I let the throttle off change down gears while breaking into a suitable gear that I can then start to accelerate around and out of the corner in the powerband.

How are you able to brake without letting the throttle off
It is going from braking into a corner to accelerating around it I felt it wasn't smooth enough.

Ps. Sorry if I've taken this thread the wrong direction.

I like to keep the bike above 3k. So coming into a corner I typically down shift which kicks the revs up and then start (or rather continue) my deceleration by applying breaks. I don't need to completely close the throttle to slow down.

If you are traveling 20MPH you would choose a gear that allowed you to travel 20MPH at 3,000 RPM. Say it is 2nd gear, which might be true.

So you are now traveling 45 MPH and approaching a corner that you expect to apex at 20 MPH. Down shift to second as you approach and you never have to completely close the throttle. It is very likely that you could simply down shift one more gear than you are used to doing before you enter the corner and you will be where I'm at. The bike winds up to 14,000 RPM. Most folk ride below 4,000 RPM. There is no harm in down shifting if you have 10,000 RPM to spare to the red line. And there is @ 1000 RPM difference between the gears.

I find that when I come to a stop I'm still holding the throttle slightly open, @ 2000 RPM worth. But the clutch is in at that point. When I release the throttle the bike drops to idle. This is pretty consistent between the two bikes, even though their throttles are adjusted slightly differently. Red bike has almost no 'slop' in the closed position, blue bike can be twisted 1/4" or so before it opens the throttle.

 

[BlackMilk]

I like to keep the bike above 3k. So coming into a corner I typically down shift which kicks the revs up and then start (or rather continue) my deceleration by applying breaks. I don't need to completely close the throttle to slow down.

If you are traveling 20MPH you would choose a gear that allowed you to travel 20MPH at 3,000 RPM. Say it is 2nd gear, which might be true.

So you are now traveling 45 MPH and approaching a corner that you expect to apex at 20 MPH. Down shift to second as you approach and you never have to completely close the throttle. It is very likely that you could simply down shift one more gear than you are used to doing before you enter the corner and you will be where I'm at. The bike winds up to 14,000 RPM. Most folk ride below 4,000 RPM. There is no harm in down shifting if you have 10,000 RPM to spare to the red line. And there is @ 1000 RPM difference between the gears.

I find that when I come to a stop I'm still holding the throttle slightly open, @ 2000 RPM worth. But the clutch is in at that point. When I release the throttle the bike drops to idle. This is pretty consistent between the two bikes, even though their throttles are adjusted slightly differently. Red bike has almost no 'slop' in the closed position, blue bike can be twisted 1/4" or so before it opens the throttle.

Thank you for explaining your method of trying to constantly keep the engine in a loaded state.

Would you consider riding this way to be normal? Has the throttle response of the FZ6 caused you to adopt these practices?

Any riding school I have attended for either on or off the road would not teach this approach.

 

[sxty8goats]

Thank you for explaining your method of trying to constantly keep the engine in a loaded state.

Would you consider riding this way to be normal? Has the throttle response of the FZ6 caused you to adopt these practices?

Any riding school I have attended for either on or off the road would not teach this approach.

The FZ6 may have modified my riding style to match the bike.

I've also been paying close attention to my throttle hand over the past couple days to see if what I believe to be true, as I explained above, was in fact true.

For the most part it is. The one difference I did notice I actually touched on above briefly. When I come to a stop, at rest with my hand on the throttle, the bike actually is running @ 2000 RPM, just off 'closed'. I keep just a touch of tension on the throttle so that it is just off 'closed'. This is done by feel I think. Just keeping pressure on the cable a bit to avoid the 'bump' when opening from full closed. I do this all the time but it is noticeable at stops because if I take my hand off the throttle the RPMs drop to idle. I did have issues with the throttle when I first started riding the FZ6. I also seem to take a week or so at the start of a season to get it back after not riding over the winter.

One thing that many complain about which I have never had issues with is the 'on/off' clutch. I never found it all that grabby and I ride two FZ6s. I think it is because I took a riders course when I got my license and we spent half a day working on the friction point of the clutch and doing exercises around it. Then most of the low speed maneuvers we practiced for the license test required that you be in and out of the friction point. The friction point on the FZ6 is a bit narrower than my friends Bonneville but I have all sorts of smooth control.

 

[sxty8goats]

Would you consider riding this way to be normal?

Actually, yes. In the sense that it is the normal way I ride this bike. Every machine has individual characteristics that you have to learn and adapt to. Motorcycles especially so, as they are very intimate machines in the sense that they are part of you as you ride them. Every action is controlled by you in a way that is very immediate and connected way. So your bike becomes part of you, you learn the little idiosyncrasies of the bike and adapt to them.

Has the throttle response of the FZ6 caused you to adopt these practices?

Yep

 

[sxty8goats]

Back on topic

First tank on the Blue Bike w/o the Power Commander yielded 49.5 MPG

Experiment = success

 

[n0other]

Man, where was this thread 6 months ago? With PCIII and stock map, 15T front sprocket I'm getting as low as 29mpg (8+ l/100km). Now I do like the upper RPM range but 29mpg on a stock 600?! I doubt the original R1 would drink that much and no amount of tuning will bring the FZ6 anywhere near that.

Yes, I like the throttle fix, but if it's true - the fuel penalty is too much. I'll try the zero map after filling up my next tank.

 

[sxty8goats]

Man, where was this thread 6 months ago? With PCIII and stock map, 15T front sprocket I'm getting as low as 29mpg (8+ l/100km). Now I do like the upper RPM range but 29mpg on a stock 600?! I doubt the original R1 would drink that much and no amount of tuning will bring the FZ6 anywhere near that.

Yes, I like the throttle fix, but if it's true - the fuel penalty is too much. I'll try the zero map after filling up my next tank.

Somewhere earlier in this thread somebody said that they had run the zero map and it still had poor fuel econ.

So if you get good results from the zero map, please post the results here. I'm curious to see if there is any benefit to it. Mine came out just fine but could go back in just as easy if there is reason.

 

[FIZZER6]

This is why I never considered a power commander. My bike is bone stock with Scorpion slip ons only and I get 48 mpg average and low 50's on trips even with luggage.

 

[n0other]

Somewhere earlier in this thread somebody said that they had run the zero map and it still had poor fuel econ.

So if you get good results from the zero map, please post the results here. I'm curious to see if there is any benefit to it. Mine came out just fine but could go back in just as easy if there is reason.

I'll track my next few tanks and report the details. On a related note, after riding the bike my clothes and backpack stink like hell from the exhaust gas, as far as I can tell the exhaust pipes are not damaged and shouldn't be leaking, but anyway... could this be an indication of a bike running very rich?

EDIT: just had an idea that I should be first trying out different maps, not removing the PC3 altogether! TBH I'm currently with whatever was shipped with PC3 from factory.

sxty8goats, which map were you using?

http://www.powercommander.com/power...=Yamaha&mdlid=106&mdlname=FZ6+Fazer&yrid=2004

I think I'll try 410-501, 410-502 next.

 

[JeffD]

I realize this thread is about Scorpions, but I'm kicking around the idea of Leo's someday. Well, anytime I kick this around with a few buds, I always hear... "You HAVE to get a PC if you're going to replace your exhaust to get the most out of your new exhaust!" Well... Do you? From what I'm reading, it sounds like I'm better off just rolling with the new cans and be done with it. Yeah, doing it the "right way" on a Dyno with a PC may actually get you to tip-top performance, but at the cost of milage? I love the bike, I REALLY do, but at the end of the day, it's still a FZ6... There's only so far you can take it short of replacing the engine, right?

 

[BlackMilk]

Went through two tanks of HARD riding on performance map recommended by Dynojet to match my Scorps & decat pipe. Got ~42mpg.

Then done 150 miles at the weekend on one tank with my wife as pillion riding casual using the ZERO map and got ~51mpg

~10mpg / 30-40 miles per tank difference!

I am using the map switch with two maps loaded on a PCV...

FZ6 power commander 5 (pcv) scorpion exhaust - YouTube

I would like to have pulled my plugs for a look after each run but haven't had the time, yet

 

[lawlberg]

I realize this thread is about Scorpions, but I'm kicking around the idea of Leo's someday. Well, anytime I kick this around with a few buds, I always hear... "You HAVE to get a PC if you're going to replace your exhaust to get the most out of your new exhaust!" Well... Do you? From what I'm reading, it sounds like I'm better off just rolling with the new cans and be done with it. Yeah, doing it the "right way" on a Dyno with a PC may actually get you to tip-top performance, but at the cost of milage? I love the bike, I REALLY do, but at the end of the day, it's still a FZ6... There's only so far you can take it short of replacing the engine, right?

I read through this thread and cringed a bit - but then again, a lot of what was said is true.

For someone who wants to get the best mileage out of their bike, a power commander doesn't do much for them.
I have a custom exhaust and the power commander - mine is set on the de-catted Leo Vince setting (closest to what I have) - and I notice the difference. I also waste a lot of gas. But you know, I have the bike for fun, for enjoyment, and it's already almost twice as good on gas as my car so it all looks good to me.

I know I'm wasting gas because I get the wonderful rumbling pops when I downshift, signifying that unburnt gas is exiting the cylinders and exploding in my header. I also know I'm also using more gas than stock when I get on the throttle - because it responds better. I'm okay with this. I'm not Casey Stoner - I'm just a guy who likes engines, going fast and getting my hands dirty, and I can easily notice the difference between two maps on my PCIII - if you're worried about getting the most mileage out of your bike, you could always put negative numbers into your map, making your FZ sound and run like a Ninja 250 - but remember - you bought an FZ.

 

[beatle]

People upgrade their exhaust for different reasons. I like the look and the sound. Even stock the bike has more power than I know what to do with, so I'll have my cake and eat it too.

 

[sxty8goats]

I realize this thread is about Scorpions, but I'm kicking around the idea of Leo's someday. Well, anytime I kick this around with a few buds, I always hear... "You HAVE to get a PC if you're going to replace your exhaust to get the most out of your new exhaust!" Well... Do you? From what I'm reading, it sounds like I'm better off just rolling with the new cans and be done with it. Yeah, doing it the "right way" on a Dyno with a PC may actually get you to tip-top performance, but at the cost of milage? I love the bike, I REALLY do, but at the end of the day, it's still a FZ6... There's only so far you can take it short of replacing the engine, right?

I have two bikes, one with Scorps, one with Leo Vince carbon exhaust. The Scorp bike was bought with the scorps and PC already installed. The Leo bike had a stock exhaust on her w/ no PC.

I bought the Leos because they were on sale and I was hoping that they would smooth out the power curve and ease up on the 'on/off' effect of the throttle. Plan was to install and then buy a PCIII if needed. They did smooth out the power curve. The hump around 4500 RPM was gone. I find the ON/OFF throttle to be a bit less as well. Never felt the need for the PCIII. The power between the two bikes was nearly identical as far as I could tell. The Non-PCIII bike had much better gas milliage.

I read through this thread and cringed a bit - but then again, a lot of what was said is true.

For someone who wants to get the best mileage out of their bike, a power commander doesn't do much for them.
I have a custom exhaust and the power commander - mine is set on the de-catted Leo Vince setting (closest to what I have) - and I notice the difference. I also waste a lot of gas. But you know, I have the bike for fun, for enjoyment, and it's already almost twice as good on gas as my car so it all looks good to me.

I know I'm wasting gas because I get the wonderful rumbling pops when I downshift, signifying that unburnt gas is exiting the cylinders and exploding in my header. I also know I'm also using more gas than stock when I get on the throttle - because it responds better. I'm okay with this. I'm not Casey Stoner - I'm just a guy who likes engines, going fast and getting my hands dirty, and I can easily notice the difference between two maps on my PCIII - if you're worried about getting the most mileage out of your bike, you could always put negative numbers into your map, making your FZ sound and run like a Ninja 250 - but remember - you bought an FZ.

It may be the way I ride but I honestly didn't' feel a power difference between the Scorps + PC and Scorps w/o PC. Still can hit 100MPH+ in 3rd with little effort and it still seems to get there in the blink of an eye as I enter the highway.