Florida’s motorcycle deaths make a strong case for helmet laws

[tejkowskit]

A good, recent article on helmets & fatalities with time, numbers, and multiple locations to back it up. Of course, everyone here already knows this, but I always like seeing up to date data and reputable sources.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/auto-news/floridas-motorcycle-deaths-make-a-strong-case-for-helmet-laws/article18223625/

A quote I found especially interesting which drives the point home:

“Deaths went up because registrations went up. Motorcycle registrations jumped when I
got that thing passed,” Reichenbach (guy who led effort to repeal Florida helmet law) said.:
“If you get 20,000 more motorcycles, you get more deaths.”

Others will debate that point. Andreas Muller, a University of Arkansas professor who
studied the effect of relaxing Florida’s helmet law, found that it resulted in more deaths
even after adjusting for a rise in registrations."

 

[outasight20]

I'm all for having a choice. I would never ride without a helmet, but that's because I have something worth protecting in my skull. Plenty don't...

 

[Erci]

Here is another interesting and debatable statement from the article:

“When you make safety optional, people won’t take steps to protect themselves. That’s human nature,” said Lynne McChristian of the Insurance Information Institute in Tampa.

Many of the instructors I work with would quit if BRC became mandatory in my state. Coaching 12 enthusiastic students vs 12 students who are forced to be there... you get the idea.

The people who really don't want to be there.. how much will they learn?

I do wish BRC was free (roll it into the budget, like some states do), so people who wanted to learn, but couldn't afford it would not be turned away.

 

[lawlberg]

Here is another interesting and debatable statement from the article:

“When you make safety optional, people won’t take steps to protect themselves. That’s human nature,” said Lynne McChristian of the Insurance Information Institute in Tampa.

Many of the instructors I work with would quit if BRC became mandatory in my state. Coaching 12 enthusiastic students vs 12 students who are forced to be there... you get the idea.

The people who really don't want to be there.. how much will they learn?

I do wish BRC was free (roll it into the budget, like some states do), so people who wanted to learn, but couldn't afford it would not be turned away.

One thing I'd say is that the cost isn't the prohibitive thing in Ohio - we really don't have many slots, and people impulsively buy bikes in the summer, after the slots are mostly filled. Having more instructors and more classes would help get people into the classrooms more than decreasing the cost. I didn't take the BRC when I got my bike because I couldn't get into the class and hadn't planned on getting a bike until a few months before i did, by then the classes were filled. There's no lack of interested/eager students willing to pay the $50 - it's just really hard to get into a class!

 

[Erci]

One thing I'd say is that the cost isn't the prohibitive thing in Ohio - we really don't have many slots, and people impulsively buy bikes in the summer, after the slots are mostly filled. Having more instructors and more classes would help get people into the classrooms more than decreasing the cost. I didn't take the BRC when I got my bike because I couldn't get into the class and hadn't planned on getting a bike until a few months before i did, by then the classes were filled. There's no lack of interested/eager students willing to pay the $50 - it's just really hard to get into a class!

Yeah.. 50 is nothing, I'm talking about places where it's $300. Even though it's expensive here, same things happens with class availability. Everyone wants to get in early, so sometimes we run as many as 4 classes in 1 weekend at 1 location.

 

[2nd childhood]

It would also be interesting to see how many of the deaths riders without a legit m/C endorsement. Here in Washington, it is not unusual to read where a rider killed in an accident was no licensed to ride.

 

[tejkowskit]

I'm all for having a choice. I would never ride without a helmet, but that's because I have something worth protecting in my skull. Plenty don't...

Natural selection? Lol.

Here is another interesting and debatable statement from the article:

“When you make safety optional, people won’t take steps to protect themselves. That’s human nature,” said Lynne McChristian of the Insurance Information Institute in Tampa.

Many of the instructors I work with would quit if BRC became mandatory in my state. Coaching 12 enthusiastic students vs 12 students who are forced to be there... you get the idea.

The people who really don't want to be there.. how much will they learn?

I do wish BRC was free (roll it into the budget, like some states do), so people who wanted to learn, but couldn't afford it would not be turned away.

I agree; when I read that it caught my attention and I thought, "that's a false generalization.". It's optional here in IL, and I take many protective precautions.

And great point on if it were man mandatory. Many instructors teach because it's fun for them. If a bunch of :squid: were taking the class and blowing it off I could see how that ruin the fun for the instructors.

One thing I'd say is that the cost isn't the prohibitive thing in Ohio - we really don't have many slots, and people impulsively buy bikes in the summer, after the slots are mostly filled. Having more instructors and more classes would help get people into the classrooms more than decreasing the cost. I didn't take the BRC when I got my bike because I couldn't get into the class and hadn't planned on getting a bike until a few months before i did, by then the classes were filled. There's no lack of interested/eager students willing to pay the $50 - it's just really hard to get into a class!

Same story in IL. Gotta be quick to register our else you'll be waiting another year.

 

[FIZZER6]

I like the idea of having a choice to wear a helmet, but I don't like the idea that motorcycle insurance in my state would likely go up if they repealed the helmet law. Why should I pay more insurance because other riders don't wish to protect their brains from the pavement? :spank:

 

[iviyth0s]

The people who really don't want to be there.. how much will they learn?

I do wish BRC was free (roll it into the budget, like some states do), so people who wanted to learn, but couldn't afford it would not be turned away.

Good point...and I wish BRC was free here. Now that I learned how expensive it is and told my friend I have a feeling he might want to just do the test like I did for his M endorsement...which i feel he SHOULD take the course because he is overconfident and has slid and dropped my Ninja 250 a couple times now (he's the one who bought it from me).

Natural selection? Lol.

Pretty much what I was thinking, gives more clear roads for me to ride

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Probably 99% of all Harley riders don't wear helmets down here. Its not unusual at all to see someone in shorts and sandles riding (other bikes too occassionally). Passengers on HD's, probably 50% . Slightly off topic but I enjoy watching the guy make a turn at an intersection doing 15-20 MPH with his foot out in case he falls over!

As for the rest, probably 65-75% don't wear helmets. BMW, Goldwing guys, almost always.

As a side note, not mentioned, to ride without a helmet in Florida, you have to be over 21 and have at least $10,000 in health/body insurance for anyone on the bike without a helmet.. Now, $10,000 doesn't go far (if you survive) and any wreck that makes it on the news, the rider usually dies with NO helmet.

 

[Carlos840]

It makes no sens to me that people would chose to ride without a helmet!

I mean, all it takes is to bump your head hard once on a hard surface and you know for a fact that is no fun at all and it hurts like hell, how would hitting your head on a road doing 70mph feel any better? There is just no logic behind it...

On a side note, what is the process to get a motorcycle license in the US? Do you even have to take classes and a test? Or can you just buy a bike and ride?

 

[Erci]

On a side note, what is the process to get a motorcycle license in the US? Do you even have to take classes and a test? Or can you just buy a bike and ride?

You can start by getting a permit. You take a written test and if you pass, you can legally ride (there are time restrictions) for several months (3-6.. I think this varies by state).

To get a full license, you either have to take a test or a 2.5 day course (you may see us refer to MSF BRC on this forum.. that's the course). There is a test at the end of this course and if you pass, you get a license.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You can start by getting a permit. You take a written test and if you pass, you can legally ride (there are time restrictions) for several months (3-6.. I think this varies by state).

To get a full license, you either have to take a test or a 2.5 day course (you may see us refer to MSF BRC on this forum.. that's the course). There is a test at the end of this course and if you pass, you get a license.

Thats about the same down here...

 

[Carlos840]

So it is possible to ride legally on the road just after a written test, no instruction, no on the road exam, that's mad!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So it is possible to ride legally on the road just after a written test, no instruction, no on the road exam, that's mad!

In Florida, EXACTLY..

My x, x , x girlfriend, years ago, got like 5 permits before she had to take the road test(closed course) given by the state (usually set up behind the D/L office) probably 12-15 years ago.

Now, that (the state run road test) was before professional schools were mandatory per the state.

I taught her and my friends wife both how to ride on a KLR 250 (lowered the shocks so they could reach the ground) in a grass field in a closed school yard (should they tip over). My friend didn't have the patience...

When I was still working, some guys I worked with, took the private, mandatory class and got their license. Right afterwards, with VERY LITTLE road time, they'd go out and drop $20,000+ on an HD as they had to be cool.
You'd see them pull out of the parking lot, both feet sticking out, should they tip over, un-real...

 

[Carlos840]

In Florida, EXACTLY..

My x, x , x girlfriend, years ago, got like 5 permits before she had to take the road test(closed course) given by the state (usually set up behind the D/L office) probably 12-15 years ago.

Now, that (the state run road test) was before professional schools were mandatory per the state.

I taught her and my friends wife both how to ride on a KLR 250 (lowered the shocks so they could reach the ground) in a grass field in a closed school yard (should they tip over). My friend didn't have the patience...

When I was still working, some guys I worked with, took the private, mandatory class and got their license. Right afterwards, with VERY LITTLE road time, they'd go out and drop $20,000+ on an HD as they had to be cool.
You'd see them pull out of the parking lot, both feet sticking out, should they tip over, un-real...

That's insane! That you would send people out on the streets on bikes, with so little training and not even have compulsory helmets...

Here helmets are obligatory, as are gloves, boots, a riding jacket and long trousers.
You have to take a theory test, then 12 hours of class with a riding school, then pass a closed course test which can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lco951qOzUA note that if you touch a cone or if you foot touches the ground you fail attempt 1, but get a second attempt, if you do a mistake on your second try you are out.

If you pass you get a provisional license valid a year. During this year you can present your full license exam, which is an hour long city/highway ride with an instructor following you, where you are judged on your riding, your filtering, the way you deal with traffic, etc.

There were 4 other people taking the exam in the same session as mine (individually) and only two of us passed, it really is pretty hard. If you fail you have to take two more hours of training before being able to try again.
If you fail a total of three times, you have to start training from scratch.

Sorry if this is a slight derail, i just thought it was interesting how motorcycle safety is seen so differently in the USA and in many of the EU countries!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Many of the instructors I work with would quit if BRC became mandatory in my state. Coaching 12 enthusiastic students vs 12 students who are forced to be there... you get the idea.

The people who really don't want to be there.. how much will they learn?
.

The state I use to coach, which was Nevada was optional. This is why I always made it a part of my intro to thank everyone who was in attendance. They didn't have to be here, but they chose to be there on their own accord. However, there are some who are court appointed by the judge as part of their sentencing. You don't know who they are, but you get a pretty good feel who they are by their behavior.

 

[Water Bear]

I never have understood why people do this (this = not wearing a helmet). My only theory is that they think it's macho in some sense.

I figured out a while ago that "manhood" wasn't about choosing trouble for yourself to handle, it was about handling well the trouble that was chosen for you. I can only guess that some folks haven't made that connection.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Everyone has a choice. People who arnt going to wear helmets aren't going to wear them regardless.

Most of you have seen this. Those that haven't, it's a good read.

The guy would have probably lived if he had a helmet and not face planted a truck.

(WARNING, not for the feint of heart.)

http://www.600riders.com/forum/bar/51012-atgatt-im-paramedic-student-my-story.html

 

[Erci]

That's insane! That you would send people out on the streets on bikes, with so little training and not even have compulsory helmets...

Here helmets are obligatory, as are gloves, boots, a riding jacket and long trousers.
You have to take a theory test, then 12 hours of class with a riding school, then pass a closed course test which can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lco951qOzUA note that if you touch a cone or if you foot touches the ground you fail attempt 1, but get a second attempt, if you do a mistake on your second try you are out.

If you pass you get a provisional license valid a year. During this year you can present your full license exam, which is an hour long city/highway ride with an instructor following you, where you are judged on your riding, your filtering, the way you deal with traffic, etc.

There were 4 other people taking the exam in the same session as mine (individually) and only two of us passed, it really is pretty hard. If you fail you have to take two more hours of training before being able to try again.
If you fail a total of three times, you have to start training from scratch.

Sorry if this is a slight derail, i just thought it was interesting how motorcycle safety is seen so differently in the USA and in many of the EU countries!

Instead of doing any of the above, we (the US) will just continue to collect death rate statics and keep scratching our heads.

I love so many things about my country, but the way we handle licensing is not one of them.

At least BRC is pretty good.. ~5 hours of classroom followed by theory test and 10 hours of riding time followed by riding test. Students have to score at least 80% on both to get a license. If they fail, they have an option to take an abbreviated BRC: 1 day.. approximately 9 hours total and will once again have to take the full riding test and score at least 80% to pass.