first time adjusting my chain: some questions/comments

[bricksrheavy]

Nice. But, how do you keep the axle from spinning without something on the right-side "nut"?
...

Hmm, I don't have to, the axle doesn't spin as I'm tightening the axle nut.

Edit;
Mine is an '06 - different swingarm

 

[payneib]

I'm seriously considering the swingarm swap. It really does my head in. I've had issues before of the (06 style) adjusters not moving because of the build up of crud inside the swingarm, and now this issue tightening up.

I'm seriously considering a speed triple as my next commuter: the same single sided swinger as my Sprint 1050. No chain alignment to worry about at all.

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

I'm seriously considering the swingarm swap. It really does my head in. I've had issues before of the (06 style) adjusters not moving because of the build up of crud inside the swingarm, and now this issue tightening up.

I'm seriously considering a speed triple as my next commuter: the same single sided swinger as my Sprint 1050. No chain alignment to worry about at all.

How often do you adjust the chain?

I've adjusted this one maybe twice in 6,000 miles and it seems to be done stretching..

Cleaning, applying a light coating of grease (waterproof grease if your in a really wet area) to the axle and other parts eliminates the corrosion issue..

Re the inside of the swing-arm of the S1, I would think a good initial cleaning of the inside, a very light coating of lubricant spray should help eliminate most of those issues.. Agreed thou, an S2 swing-arm eliminates all of that..

 

[payneib]

Maybe every 3000-4000 for the chain itself. I find my left foot gives a really good indication of if it needs doing, plenty of buzz when it gets loose.

But on my milage, that's roughly every 3-4 months.

Pluss two or three tyres a year, and I try to give the wheel bearings a grease at about the same intervals, it kinda of builds up.

Riding in to work tonight, I'm sure it's slipped again. Feels like a right hand bias again.

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[TownsendsFJR1300]

Maybe every 3000-4000 for the chain itself. I find my left foot gives a really good indication of if it needs doing, plenty of buzz when it gets loose.

But on my milage, that's roughly every 3-4 months.

Pluss two or three tyres a year, and I try to give the wheel bearings a grease at about the same intervals, it kinda of builds up.

Riding in to work tonight, I'm sure it's slipped again. Feels like a right hand bias again.

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What kind of chain? DID, top of the line, Chinese knock off? That shouldn't be stretching that much..

 

[payneib]

DID.

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[flivver]

Related to this, I went looking at a parts fiche to try to understand how the adjusters work on the 2005 swing arm. I discovered that I'm supposed to have a washer on each adjuster, ahead of the two nuts. I don't. To get them requires about $0.60 per washer, and then $8 shipping. :-( Anybody got a more economical way to get the washers, without paying so much for the shipping? Maybe I'll just get some washers at the hardware store...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Related to this, I went looking at a parts fiche to try to understand how the adjusters work on the 2005 swing arm. I discovered that I'm supposed to have a washer on each adjuster, ahead of the two nuts. I don't. To get them requires about $0.60 per washer, and then $8 shipping. :-( Anybody got a more economical way to get the washers, without paying so much for the shipping? Maybe I'll just get some washers at the hardware store...

Do you need the owners manual? I have it as a PDF if so, PM me with an address.

And yes, there's no reason why you can't use a regular FLAT washer (I'd get SS so it doesn't rust).

Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2005 FZ6 - FZ6ST REAR WHEEL Diagram




.

 

[flivver]

I've got an owners manual (in hard-copy), and also the FSM (in PDF). I can't use a regular washer, though (even if stainless)? Sorry to be dense...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I've got an owners manual (in hard-copy), and also the FSM (in PDF). I can't use a regular washer, though (even if stainless)? Sorry to be dense...

Why not?

It simply goes between the adjusted and the two lock nuts (on each side)?

 

[flivver]

Ah, I think you meant "there's no reason" in your reply, rather than "there's reason". I get it now. Thanks.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ah, I think you meant "there's no reason" in your reply, rather than "there's reason". I get it now. Thanks.

Yep, didn't proof read....

So why can't you use a flat washer NOT from Yamaha??

 

[flivver]

I can... I thought (in your first reply to my washer conundrum) that I couldn't use a non-Yamaha washer, and I was just confirming that to be the case.

Then, I discovered that you were really saying that there was no reason that I couldn't. So indeed, I can use a non-Yamaha flat washer -- and intend to.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Partially my boo, I didn't proof read and thus, most of the confusion. ;(

If you can get a metric washer (kinda hard to find) would be best, but not a deal breaker.

I believe the SAE, ID, size is 1/4"..

 

[flivver]

Back to this... While my chain has been relatively quiet since this adjustment, I've been noticing more things that made me think the chain was actually a bit too loose. It's hard to describe what I noticed, but I imagine y'all know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I checked it over the weekend, and I had 2.5 inches of slack. I adjusted it down to 2 inches of slack (right in the middle of the range), aligned everything, and tightened it down. Checked the alignment (with a chain laser), and it was slightly off. Started over. Tightened it down. Slightly off. I repeated this at least a half dozen times, each time trying to guess how much it should be off in the other direction, *before* tightening, so that it would be aligned after tightening. Each time, I did what y'all suggested (pushed on the wheel with my knee while tightening the axle nut). Finally got it to 2 inches of slack, and aligned, after tightening.

[ Does anybody else have this problem with chain alignment, before/after tightening the axle nut? ]

Today, I rode it to work and back. The chain whine was back this morning, and was back with a vengeance this afternoon. When I got home, I checked it again and it was at 1.5 inches of slack! I can't fathom how this happened... I had the axle nut cinched to 87 foot pounds. I imagine my torque wrench could be off, and that the nut was loose enough that the wheel could slip backward while riding. That seems kind of far fetched, though... I loosened up the axle nut again, got it back to 2 inches of slack, tightened it, and lost the alignment again. Repeat. Finally got it to be happy, at 2 inches of slack. Went for a ride, and the whine is definitely there. This time, I set my torque wrench a few foot pounds higher, in case it's at the root of my tightens-while-riding problem.

Bottom line: this is driving me nuts.

Since I've got 2 inches of slack, am I apt to be hurting anything? Like, if I'm right in the range, it seems like the chain and the bike should be fine, noise notwithstanding. What I'm worried about is damaging the chain or the rear bearings or something like that... But again, the chain tension seems to be right in the middle of the range. I know that lots of people talk about tensioning to the loose end of the range, but if I'm dead center, should I be worried?

How expensive is the S2 swing arm that y'all talk about, that makes these problems go away?

 

[gulfpete]

Have you had a look at the damper? Something is definitely moving.

Also if you put some liquid paper on the nuts you will see if something has moved.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Question, when checking / preparing to adjust, are you measuring the chain at it's TIGHTEST point?

I take a tape measure, place the end near the lower part of the black chain guide. Then rotate the wheel watching very closely
for when the chain gets the tightest.

THAT is the spot to adjust your chain to 2".. And no more than 87 ft lbs.
If you are doing this, something else is amiss as noted previously.

Bring up the parts diagram, pull the rear wheel off and physically check for EVERY PART is present:
Yamaha Motorcycle Parts 2005 FZ6 - FZ6ST REAR WHEEL Diagram

And NO, what your experiencing is not normal..

Re-reading your first post, it seems to have started with the new chain. Not likely but the master-link is pinned over with a tool.
The cheaper tools, you have to go slow and MEASURE the distance between the ML plates. It is possible it's been pinched too tight (likely NOT your issue with the whine-definitely NOT with the chain slack changing).

Google you chain brand and size, the manufacturer should have a spec for the master link WIDTH...

What do both sprockets look like? Their usually changed out with the chain. Can you post some pic's of both the front and rear sprockets? Those could cause the whine, not the wild changes in tension...

 

[flivver]

Have you had a look at the damper? Something is definitely moving.
Also if you put some liquid paper on the nuts you will see if something has moved.

Haven't looked at the damper, no. I've never taken the rear wheel off... I guess I'm going to have to.

Question, when checking / preparing to adjust, are you measuring the chain at it's TIGHTEST point?

I take a tape measure, place the end near the lower part of the black chain guide. Then rotate the wheel watching very closely
for when the chain gets the tightest.

I haven't been explicitly looking for the tightest point, no... The chain is practically brand new, so I assumed that it would be pretty uniformly tensioned. I guess not. :-/ I'll check it again when I get home, and will make it a point to rotate the chain and look for the tightest spot. Do you do this by feel, or by looking at the vertical position of the chain and you spin the back wheel slowly?

But indeed, I have been measuring just to the right of the black chain guide. The owner's manual is a little confusing, I think, as the diagram (on page 6-24, IIRC) make you think you should push the chain up and measure where the top of the chain is, and then push it down and measure where the bottom of the chain is, and then take the difference. What I've actually been doing (and what I think is correct) is to push the chain up and down as far as it will go, but always measure where the bottom of the chain is (i.e. measure the actual vertical distance that a fixed point on the chain is able to cover).

THAT is the spot to adjust your chain to 2".. And no more than 87 ft lbs.
If you are doing this, something else is amiss as noted previously.

Indeed, I'm a little worried that something else is wrong.

Bring up the parts diagram, pull the rear wheel off and physically check for EVERY PART is present:

This will be my first time taking the rear wheel off... (I've take both wheels off of two other bikes, successfully. Just always makes me nervous.)

[/B]And NO, what your experiencing is not normal..

Re-reading your first post, it seems to have started with the new chain. Not likely but the master-link is pinned over with a tool.
The cheaper tools, you have to go slow and MEASURE the distance between the ML plates. It is possible it's been pinched too tight (likely NOT your issue with the whine-definitely NOT with the chain slack changing).

Google you chain brand and size, the manufacturer should have a spec for the master link WIDTH...

I'll look this up, too. Thanks for the prod. It's a DID chain, that was put on with the DID chain installer tool. So, hopefully, nothing is amiss there.

What do both sprockets look like? Their usually changed out with the chain. Can you post some pic's of both the front and rear sprockets? Those could cause the whine, not the wild changes in tension...

The sprockets are new. I had them replaced with the chain (it was a set: DID chain and some other brand of sprockets). Worth a look, though.

Thanks for the help, guys!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If he used the good DID tool It stops own it's own and you cannot over tighten it(that's the tool I have)-So your probably good there.

Re new chain / tight spots, you'll find them get slightly tighter / looser, etc, even new..

Re checking total play, you sound like your in the correct spot.

To find the tightest spot, I put my tape measure in the same area as you normally check. Then take a sight (eye ball) at the center pins and the ruler, then rotate the wheel slowly. You'll see, depending on the wear, the chain go up and down. My chain is DID (top of the line, fairly new and I have probably 1/16" difference. It also helps to eye ball where the master link is simply for a reference point(IE-ML is mid rear sprocket at the taughtest)

To clarify;
*I find the tightest spot, push up all the way(fair amount of pressure), CENTER MY ruler on ONE PIN, then push down.

Measuring THAT pins TOTAL UP AND DOWN MOVEMENT. That IS THE TENSION at that time..

How long have you had the bike?

Also, it wasn't mentioned MUCH earlier about the sprocket change. A simple chain change does NOT involve (usually) removing the rear wheel.

The mechanic did so with the sprocket change. His over tightening the chain initially, isn't good, BUT, it is very possible something was left out when worked on for as bad as your wheel is moving about...

If you can't find it, find another mechanic, you trust, with your shop manual, and have him go thru the tail of the bike.

You could have worn swing arm bearings (not likely), but something is shifting about...

 

[payneib]

That was a long read to catch up.

On alignment: yes I get that issue. I find the best way to sort it is to leave the chain on the slack side of the spec, then put a few miles in with the alignment as best as I can get it. Once it's had time to settle in, go back and take that slack out using only the side that needs to move back, and loosening off the axle nut as little as possible.

WRT your chain being slack again after ride: Like Scott said, the first thing I thought was measured at different points.

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