engine "popping" from lean air/fuel mixture?

[Kriswithak]

Hello guys,

I have a 2009 FZ6N and just recently installed the following (in the described order):

1) M2 Two Bros titanium cans
2) NGK iridium spark plugs
3) K&N air filter

There was a gap of a month or two before 1 and 2/3, and then the bike would run nice. I had the local dealer guys install the plugs and the K&N filter and that's when things started to go funny. The bike is popping at times, and it won't reach 220 km/h!! Mileage is very low, I took it on a 1200-km trip and recorded an average 13 km/liter, my friend's cbr1000 did better than that.

Another guy told me it might have something to do with plug calibration/gauging, i.e. finding the exact gap between plug electrodes, but I don't know. I suspect it has something to do with the fuel/air mixture.

There are rumours that a garage will launch in me town and they'll have a dyno, but until then I'd welcome all input I could get on getting my bike running smooth again, with the torque and power at a safe rate... including links to articles on setting the dash c1/c2 features right.

Thanks!

Most people who get an aftermarket exhaust and airfilter get a PCIII, and then get the appropriate map.

 

[Torquemata]

For those U.S. friends (or other non-SI system for that matter) out there, please note:

13 km/liter = 30.57 miles/gallon

1200 km = 746 miles

 

[Torquemata]

Kris,

Gidday mate!

I actually have given some thought about purchasing a PCIII (wonder if the new PC-V will work on my FZ6), but, first, it's relatively expensive and, second, I'd have to wait until somebody arrived from the U.S. to smuggle one in for me to dodge that myriad of taxes we pay to support corruption in Brazil...

If I can get by with those C1/C2 adjustments, I will, provided it won't hurt my bike. We typically pay for 2 bikes compared to people in Europe, U.S. and Australia, so here they're sort of rich boy's toy, or you have to save for ages before getting one parked in your garage (my case).

Thanks for the input.

 

[Torquemata]

SeekGod,

Thanks for the links!

-- Torque

 

[Drenelin]

This will probably seem like a stupid question for anyone who has more mechanical knowledge than me (i.e. any at all...), but will running too lean cause damage?

 

[Shiloh]

This will probably seem like a stupid question for anyone who has more mechanical knowledge than me (i.e. any at all...), but will running too lean cause damage?

Yes, and it can be very expensive damage if allowed to go on for extended time periods, up to and included engine seizure.

 

[Andz]

My 2004 has almost 45,000km (almost 28,000 miles) on it and I have noticed this popping since I installed the Akrapovics when it was 3 months old.

I live at 1,623 metres (5,324ft) above sea level and it only seems to do it when it is cold, when I take it to sea level it does it all the time. No damage, no reduction in performance.

 

[Motogiro]

Hello guys,

I have a 2009 FZ6N and just recently installed the following (in the described order):

1) M2 Two Bros titanium cans
2) NGK iridium spark plugs
3) K&N air filter

There was a gap of a month or two before 1 and 2/3, and then the bike would run nice. I had the local dealer guys install the plugs and the K&N filter and that's when things started to go funny. The bike is popping at times, and it won't reach 220 km/h!! Mileage is very low, I took it on a 1200-km trip and recorded an average 13 km/liter, my friend's cbr1000 did better than that.

Another guy told me it might have something to do with plug calibration/gauging, i.e. finding the exact gap between plug electrodes, but I don't know. I suspect it has something to do with the fuel/air mixture.

There are rumours that a garage will launch in me town and they'll have a dyno, but until then I'd welcome all input I could get on getting my bike running smooth again, with the torque and power at a safe rate... including links to articles on setting the dash c1/c2 features right.

Thanks!

I have the same pipes and a K&N. I opened the front of the air box for more air flow.

I have an 06 FZ6 so try this map. It should work very close. Cost me over $300.00 to get this dyno map. My bike runs very strong. Zipped file...

Have Fun!

 

[RJ2112]

This will probably seem like a stupid question for anyone who has more mechanical knowledge than me (i.e. any at all...), but will running too lean cause damage?

Yes.

A motor running lean will have much hotter combustion gasses than one running more rich. The extra fuel in the rich charge evaporates, and cools the exhaust gasses, to a degree.

Considering the exhaust gas temp is already well over 700° F, bumping that up by running lean is getting close to having an oxy acetlyene blow torch in your cylinders.

The extra heat is hard to get rid of.... exhaust valves get hotter, expand more, and become weaker; the piston itself can soften. Add in some back firing, or pre ignition and you can deliver hammer blows to the combustion chamber without even knowing it.

 

[Torquemata]

Hey Nccoder,

Thanks, but I cannot use your map since I do not have a PCIII installed in me bike. And judging by what I heard people writing about the C1/C2 adjustments, a PC isn't really necessary for the FZ6. Someone may confirm this, please?

 

[Motogiro]

Hey Nccoder,

Thanks, but I cannot use your map since I do not have a PCIII installed in me bike. And judging by what I heard people writing about the C1/C2 adjustments, a PC isn't really necessary for the FZ6. Someone may confirm this, please?

I think they said I was psychic....maybe they said psychotic i get it messed up sometimes....

Well if you get a PClll....They have a PC-V for our bike but you still have to dyno it or get an additional O2 sensor that's used with the self programing feature. The additional O2 sensor is like $300+ Save the map....You might get a PClll.....but yes, try the Co1/Co2 adjustments first.

 

[Bates121]

And here, I thought having a bike would be cheaper! LOL! It is fun!

Lol I thought that too boy was I wrong and now saving up for some pipes is gonna be painful on the cashflow.

Also what are the symptoms of running lean. My bike is pretty stock but occasionally has some interesting issues. For example, I usually ride the canyons in the 10-11000 rpm range in canyons (I like the high rpms) and after doing this for about 20-30 minutes when I pull in the clutch all the way the engine will just stop. However, with my daily commuting and riding around town I keep it around 7000rpm and the engine never dies when I pull in the clutch. Also after ridign at higher rpms if it doesn't stall when I pull in the clutch it keeps the rpms around 2.5-3k until I let the clutch out a little and pull it back in then it goes below 2k and 0k mark and is fine. I have had the TPS recall done and the sparks changed by the dealer at 8k miles. any suggestions?

 

[Motogiro]

Lol I thought that too boy was I wrong and now saving up for some pipes is gonna be painful on the cashflow

Was Da Haps Blue Leader!? Long time no hear! Hahaha. Might be up Santa Monica way next week...

Yeah..."Honey, this will save us money on gas....and it will reduce the carbon footprint on the environment!" Yeah, riiiiiight!

I guess if we left them stock and used them only as commuters...

 

[Torquemata]

Well if you get a PClll....They have a PC-V for our bike but you still have to dyno it or get an additional O2 sensor that's used with the self programing feature. The additional O2 sensor is like $300+ Save the map....You might get a PClll.....but yes, try the Co1/Co2 adjustments first.

Well, Coder, I copy that. Perhaps when the new garage opens up, but for the now I will stick to the Co1/Co2 feat. Brazil is pretty much still a mixture of 1st/3rd/4th worlds, despite the recent hype and buzz.

 

[krid80]

Hey Nccoder,

Thanks, but I cannot use your map since I do not have a PCIII installed in me bike. And judging by what I heard people writing about the C1/C2 adjustments, a PC isn't really necessary for the FZ6. Someone may confirm this, please?

A PCIII is going to be more tunable than c1/c2.

I used C1/C2 and gained a bit of power.

Check my sticky in the mods section.

 

[Wolfram]

generally engines don't 'pop' when it runs lean unless there is a leak in the intake side.

Irregular idle and splattering while accelerate is almost always an intake side issue. (eg. leak, block intake or fuel delivery issue)

Soft popping while roll off can either be leak in exhaust or slighty rich mixture. While several soft pops then a loud bang indicates rich mixture.

Apart from 'dirty' internals, not optimal power/torque output, upsetting fellow road users and tree hangers, running slightly rich isn't a major concern. However, running lean even slighty below spec can shorten the life of any engine dramatically.

"Lean" engine tends to run hotter, and it hesitates to accelerate.

Most modern four cylinders 4 strokes ECU's parameters can accommodate aftermarket bolt on exhausts without any issues. While this is also true for most 4 stroke twins; european bikes tends to be more sensitive to bolt-on.

 

[Drenelin]

Yes.

A motor running lean will have much hotter combustion gasses than one running more rich. The extra fuel in the rich charge evaporates, and cools the exhaust gasses, to a degree.

Considering the exhaust gas temp is already well over 700° F, bumping that up by running lean is getting close to having an oxy acetlyene blow torch in your cylinders.

The extra heat is hard to get rid of.... exhaust valves get hotter, expand more, and become weaker; the piston itself can soften. Add in some back firing, or pre ignition and you can deliver hammer blows to the combustion chamber without even knowing it.

Cheers guys. My new (to me) FZ6 is popping a bit on hard decel, so I'll take it down to get tuned to make sure I'm not doing any damage. It has a K&N air filter, an aftermarket muffler and some stupid power-chip on it that plugs into the air-temp sensor. I think I shall pull the chip off, as I can't see how telling the ECU that the air is cooler than it actually is could benefit the engine...

 

[RJ2112]

Cheers guys. My new (to me) FZ6 is popping a bit on hard decel, so I'll take it down to get tuned to make sure I'm not doing any damage. It has a K&N air filter, an aftermarket muffler and some stupid power-chip on it that plugs into the air-temp sensor. I think I shall pull the chip off, as I can't see how telling the ECU that the air is cooler than it actually is could benefit the engine...

Cooler air is denser..... and can carry more fuel. That gizmo is probably meant to make the charge more 'rich' by fooling the ECU to use a richer setting.

That's why intercoolers are used with turbos and superchargers.... and why water injection increases power. When the water (or alcohol) evaporates, it cools the intake charge, making it denser.

 

[KingY]

Lol I thought that too boy was I wrong and now saving up for some pipes is gonna be painful on the cashflow.

Also what are the symptoms of running lean. My bike is pretty stock but occasionally has some interesting issues. For example, I usually ride the canyons in the 10-11000 rpm range in canyons (I like the high rpms) and after doing this for about 20-30 minutes when I pull in the clutch all the way the engine will just stop. However, with my daily commuting and riding around town I keep it around 7000rpm and the engine never dies when I pull in the clutch. Also after ridign at higher rpms if it doesn't stall when I pull in the clutch it keeps the rpms around 2.5-3k until I let the clutch out a little and pull it back in then it goes below 2k and 0k mark and is fine. I have had the TPS recall done and the sparks changed by the dealer at 8k miles. any suggestions?

Hey there, my bike only had scorion end cans on when this happend to me, but it was one very hot day and i was rading bike hard in high rev range and this happend to me, i took it is an over temp shut down if there is such thing, i pulled over let bike rest for about 2 mins (with ignition off) started her back up and she was fine, i might be wrong but i thoguht it was temp, hope this helps