emergency braking

[goran21220]

Maybe a dumb question but i'll take any advice!I'm a newby,just got my first bike...The other day i failed to see the stop sign in front of me cause some douche decided to park his van right in front of the sign so nobody could see it...Anyway,when i realised there is a stop sign on the other side of the street i hit both brakes at the same time and what happened is all the weight transfered to the front wheel so of course i locked the rear one and i started sliding but luckily i managed to stay on the bike.I ended up stopping completely in the middle of intersection but thank god there was no traffic... I know i need to practise my emergency braking,i would like to hear some opinions of experienced riders,like in which order i should apply the brakes and should i use the engine for braking as well like i would do with my car?Some riders dont ever use the rear brake,do you? I know,i can't spell...

 

[Doorag]

I'm sure someone will contradict me but I was taught to apply the rear brake first, front brake next and most importantly - don't grab the clutch. Only grab the clutch at the very last second and then only if you think about it.

The theory is that it's better to stall the bike than to get killed because you were worrying about the clutch. It also helps with engine braking.

 

[Nelly]

Maybe a dumb question but i'll take any advice!I'm a newby,just got my first bike...The other day i failed to see the stop sign in front of me cause some douche decided to park his van right in front of the sign so nobody could see it...Anyway,when i realised there is a stop sign on the other side of the street i hit both brakes at the same time and what happened is all the weight transfered to the front wheel so of course i locked the rear one and i started sliding but luckily i managed to stay on the bike.I ended up stopping completely in the middle of intersection but thank god there was no traffic... I know i need to practise my emergency braking,i would like to hear some opinions of experienced riders,like in which order i should apply the brakes and should i use the engine for braking as well like i would do with my car?Some riders dont ever use the rear brake,do you? I know,i can't spell...

Practice it mate. find a car lot, excelerate to 30 mph and grab the brakes.

it took me a while to stop locking the rear.

Neil

I was always taught to apply both at the same time?

 

[4fun]

If you do lock the rear, keep it locked! Don't let it go or you will get highsided.

 

[wrightme43]

Solve your whole problem. You are very aware of it. Lack of experince. We all start that way.
Check it out.
Each rider starts with two bags. One full of luck. One empty of experince. Fill up your experince bag before you empty your luck bag.
Take 24.95 plus tax to the nearest Barnes and Noble. Buy one of these books. Pat Hahn, Ride Hard Ride Smart, or Lee Parks Total Control, or David Hough Proficient Motorcyling.
I Like Pat Hahn to start. They will give you drills that teach your body what to do when you mind goes AAAAHHHHHH!!!!! If its been practiced it will just happen, like catching a baseball.

Also you might want to adjust your rear brake lever down some, mine was very high, and the stretch to reach it, helps to keep it from locking so easy.

Really though the main thing is parking lot practice and real quiet road practice. If you ride at 80 practice stopping from 80, but dont start there. LOL

 

[Fred]

If you do lock the rear, keep it locked! Don't let it go or you will get highsided.

They do teach that technique in MSF, and it's true to a point. To get into the physics of it, when you lock the rear brake the rear end of the bike starts to get sideways to the bike's line of travel. Once you release the rear, the wheel starts rolling again and tries to straighten out. This kicks the bike's rear end pretty hard. And if that's not enough, the gyroscopic procession as the rear wheel straightens out will contribute to the force of the road dragging sideways against the wheel. Result, the bike violently rolls in the direction of the skid, turning the rider into a Newtonian object.

So yeah, if your rear wheel is skidding and your bike is getting sideways, stay on it. You'll either stop safely or you'll lowside, but either is better than a highside.

Here's the "but"

But, an experienced rider can sense the rear wheel skid happening and get off of the rear brake early enough to prevent this. The bike will still have an unpleasant kick in the rear, but if it's not too crossed up yet, it's recoverable.

MSF teaches it the way that they do because it's simple and easy to remember, and it's playing the odds. But next time you're getting ready to go in for a new rear tire, take some time in a parking lot trying low speed rear wheel skids and learn when you should ride them out and when you can safely get the rear wheel rolling again.

Better yet, get a dirtbike and try it on that. Dirt's a lot more forgiving.

Fred

 

[4fun]

They do teach that technique in MSF, and it's true to a point. To get into the physics of it, when you lock the rear brake the rear end of the bike starts to get sideways to the bike's line of travel. Once you release the rear, the wheel starts rolling again and tries to straighten out. This kicks the bike's rear end pretty hard. And if that's not enough, the gyroscopic procession as the rear wheel straightens out will contribute to the force of the road dragging sideways against the wheel. Result, the bike violently rolls in the direction of the skid, turning the rider into a Newtonian object.

So yeah, if your rear wheel is skidding and your bike is getting sideways, stay on it. You'll either stop safely or you'll lowside, but either is better than a highside.

Here's the "but"

But, an experienced rider can sense the rear wheel skid happening and get off of the rear brake early enough to prevent this. The bike will still have an unpleasant kick in the rear, but if it's not too crossed up yet, it's recoverable.

MSF teaches it the way that they do because it's simple and easy to remember, and it's playing the odds. But next time you're getting ready to go in for a new rear tire, take some time in a parking lot trying low speed rear wheel skids and learn when you should ride them out and when you can safely get the rear wheel rolling again.

Better yet, get a dirtbike and try it on that. Dirt's a lot more forgiving.

Fred

Fred, I agree, just didn't want people to think that it is okay to do, an experienced rider that knows the feel of the skid yes, but an experienced rider that has never felt this may not know when to hold it or let off either. I think you said it the better then i could have. Practice.:thumbup:

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Practice it mate. find a car lot, excelerate to 30 mph and grab the brakes.

it took me a while to stop locking the rear.

Neil

I was always taught to apply both at the same time?

Better to learn in the parking lot than in the intersection. Don't forget practicing your tight turns. Instinctively you will want to ride your bike as soon as you get it. Your emergency braking should come instinctively too after practice and more riding experience. Sooner or later, another situation will come across and you will have to do perform another emercency braking. But next time, you should execute it like a pro, and after the hazard has been avoided, you will reflect back and realize that you just have skillfully applied the use of emergency braking. Not only practice to sharpen your skill, but also read the books like Wrightme43 has mentioned. I always said that a rider should have 3 things, the knowlege (information, statistics), skills and ability to ride a motorcycle safefely You need all three to hit the road.

On another note, not sure about everyone else, but I instinctively pull my clutch in the same time as I apply both brakes.

 

[HavBlue]

For what it is worth, try this: Take a fried to a parking lot that is free of obstacles and open. Bring a large bright light (torch) with you. If you simply hit 30mph and hit the brakes this isn't the same as getting into what is known as spontaneous reaction time. You can not know the stop is required of you until the moment of hazard and here is where you gain those spontaneous skills. Have the person you brought with you hold the light out where you can see it and as you are on approach allow them to hit the light. When you see the light, hit the brakes. Do this over and over and do not anticipate the light. Relax, ride the grove and stop in a maximum effort when you are required to do so. Take some tools with you and adjust the levers to gain the feel you think is best. Beyond this, get used to how the bike reacts to different applications and do learn to use that rear brake.

 

[steveindenmark]

If it is a stop sign there are also other markings that you should be aware of.

You have to learn to be aware of all the signs and not just the big red thing on a post.

Steve

 

[bluenova]

I'm sure someone will contradict me but I was taught to apply the rear brake first, front brake next and most importantly - don't grab the clutch. Only grab the clutch at the very last second and then only if you think about it.

The theory is that it's better to stall the bike than to get killed because you were worrying about the clutch. It also helps with engine braking.

Hmm, It's not how I was taught. I was taught to lightly apply the front brake then the rear then apply more pressure to the front. This way the front already has more surface area when you squeeze it harder and the bike can brake quicker.

Would be interesting to know which way is truly 'better'.

 

[HavBlue]

If it is a stop sign there are also other markings that you should be aware of.

You have to learn to be aware of all the signs and not just the big red thing on a post.

Steve

If it's a stop sign or signalized intersection the alert factor and focus level should be at the extreme. This is where 8 out of 10 motorcycle accidents occur and the hazards that caused these accidents occurred between 11:00 and 1:00 in the rider's view. In other words the rider should have been able to see the hazard however, both the HURT and European MAIDS studies indicate the rider had but 1.8 seconds to react and evade incident. That's not much time folks......

Note: One mile per hour is roughly 1.466 feet per second so at 40mph you have approximately 105.55 feet to see, react and evade the hazard before you are toast.

 

[HavBlue]

Hmm, It's not how I was taught. I was taught to lightly apply the front brake then the rear then apply more pressure to the front. This way the front already has more surface area when you squeeze it harder and the bike can brake quicker.

Would be interesting to know which way is truly 'better'.

Applying the rear brake before the front sets the rear suspension and reduces the effects of dive created by the front being applied. Applying the front brake first causes lift to the rear suspension which leads to a reduction in available down force or contact for that rear tire. This leads to premature wheel lock. Application of the rear first and just slightly (very slightly) before the front helps to plant that suspension and increases overall braking potential.

 

[CanadianFZ6]

Have a look at this...

Motorcycle Braking: 15 Questions and Answers - webBikeWorld

 

[urbanj]

another important piece to emergency braking is look where you WANT to go. ive been caught a couple times before and by scanning the area really quick and knowing what i dont want to hit, i was able to try to e brake but then change course really quick and just pull to the side of the object.

dont get caught like a dear in headlight staring at what you are going to hit and mash the brakes. youll probably hit it. keep your head up. it also helps you appropriately apply the brakes in that staged sequence like the article suggests.

 

[HavBlue]

another important piece to emergency braking is look where you WANT to go. ive been caught a couple times before and by scanning the area really quick and knowing what i dont want to hit, i was able to try to e brake but then change course really quick and just pull to the side of the object.

dont get caught like a dear in headlight staring at what you are going to hit and mash the brakes. youll probably hit it. keep your head up. it also helps you appropriately apply the brakes in that staged sequence like the article suggests.

This is it, braking isn't the only option and a good rider always has an escape which may or may not involve some sort of emergency braking. It's amazing where that bike will fit and what it can do when the situation demands it.

 

[jamesfz6]

If i am around town i keep my rpms a little high for the sole purpose of emergency braking. I have a bunch a friends that frequent the local road track and they tell me all the time that engine braking is what saves them when they have to stop suddenly on the track.

One of the instructors at the track told me what everyone already knows but we may not do it.......practice makes perfect!

 

[steveindenmark]

If it's a stop sign or signalized intersection the alert factor and focus level should be at the extreme. This is where 8 out of 10 motorcycle accidents occur and the hazards that caused these accidents occurred between 11:00 and 1:00 in the rider's view. In other words the rider should have been able to see the hazard however, both the HURT and European MAIDS studies indicate the rider had but 1.8 seconds to react and evade incident. That's not much time folks......

Note: One mile per hour is roughly 1.466 feet per second so at 40mph you have approximately 105.55 feet to see, react and evade the hazard before you are toast.

I do not know what half of that meant...sorry.

Part of the instruction given in the UK at least is "When approaching a junction be prepared to slow down and stop"

I assume this stop sign was at a junction and if the UK riding method is being used there should not be a problem.

Steve