eFZ6 Build Thread

[ChevyFazer]

Its seems like for now at least the 100mile range is a more reasonable starting point and maybe as time passes technology can improve so that it would be more phesable to obtain all our goals

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[Nelly]

Looks like a speedway bike. I am sure the FZ6 has its genes there. Good find.
How heavy is it?

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[jtarkany]

Holy Mackerel! I just read my post, I wrote it and I can't understand it. Let me try to simplify by providing the formulas used, then anyone who wants to can run the math for themselves:

Ok efficiency measured as Wh/mile:
Wh/mile is the normal way of showing the efficiency of an EV. It is more or less the MPG of an EV. Wh/mile stands for Watt-hours per mile. A Watt-hour is a measurement of capacity, so a 100 Wh/mile vehicle will use 100 Watt-hours to go one mile.

You can calculate this by finding the Wh of your battery pack. This is (Voltage x Ah). You then take this number and divide it by how many miles your ev can go before it is dead. Many ev motorcycle owners have calculated this using their vehicles and that is where I got the range of 75 - 150 Wh/mile for our build.

Next up is the relation between efficiency (112.5 Wh/mile), range (185 miles) and power (20.8125 kW or 20,812.5 W):
W = Wh/mile * miles: 20,812.5 W = 112.5 Wh/mile * 185 miles
miles = W / Wh/mile: 185 miles = 20,812.5 W / 112.5 Wh/mile
Wh/mile = W / miles: 112.5 Wh/mile = 20,812.5 W / 185 miles

So what do we do with that information?:
Well we can figure out our battery pack requirements now that we know our power requirements using the following formulas:
Ah = kWh / v: 216.797 Ah = 20,812.5 W / 96v
kWh = Ah * v: 20,812.5 W = 216.797 Ah * 96v
v = kWh / Ah: 96v = 20,812.5 W / 216.797 Ah

Like I said before, 'So what do I do with that information?'
Well, you use that information to start shopping for your battery pack :thumbup:

So in Shreveports case, he knew what batteries he wanted but didn't know how many it would take, using the formulas above we were able to do the following: To get our original target range of 185 miles at 100% battery discharge we would get: kWh / Ah = v: 20,812.5 W / 5 Ah = 4,162.5, therefore we would need 4,162.5/ 3.7v = 1125 of these batteries at a cost of $8,630 and a weight of 350 lbs (each battery weighs 141 grams).

 

[Nelly]

Ok now I have had severe brain freeze.
Nelly
Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[bob808]

if you need some inspiration... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vztrSBfc2IM&feature=fvwrel]Yamaha Branded Deus Ex Machina Motorcycle Exoskeleton On Video The Wearable Motorcycle - YouTube[/ame]

 

[OZXJR]

I love electric bikes and have long wanted to build one myself,very interested to see how this turns out :thumbup:

 

[oldfast007]

This should be an epic build, I'd like to contribute a few links, they may not help at all but what the heck...

EVolve Electrics-Electric Vehicle Parts-EV Kits-Thunder Sky, Netgain, ADC, Alltrax, Curtis, Zivan, Quick Charge, IOTA, Elcon

E-bike Battery,EV,Battery System

 

[jtarkany]

Now that we all know how to do the math, let's see what the Lito Sora is doing to meet it's claim of a 185 mile range bike coming in at 529.2 lbs.

What do we know about the Lito Sora?

W = 12kWh
miles = 185 miles at 80% discharge and a total range of 231.25 miles at 100% discharge

First let'f figure out the efficiency or Wh/mile: Wh/mile = W / miles: So, 51.89 Wh/mile = 12000 W / 231.25 miles. Way more efficent than any other EV measured! Must be one heck of a Battery Management System, Controller and Regenerative Braking set-up.

Now let's try to figure out the battery pack configuration, we know that the battery pack is 12 kWh, LiFePO4, we will postulate that the bike minus the battery pack (your heaviest item) weighs 200 lbs, leaving 329.2 lbs for batteries, the possibilities are as follows:

We have to solve for Ah and v, so we have to come up with reasonable Ah, v and weight numbers that make sense and that equal 12,000 W

12000 W = Ah * v
1) 12,000 W = 144v * 83 Ah : 45 - 3.2v 80Ah Cells weigh 297 lbs
2) 12,000 W = 96v * 125 Ah : 30 - 3.2v 120Ah Cells weigh 315 lbs
3) 12,000 W = 72v * 166 Ah : 22 - 3.2v 180Ah Cells weigh 271 lbs
4) 12,000 W = 2,400v * 5 Ah (Using Shreveports Batteries) : 650 - 3.7v 5Ah Cells weigh 202 lbs.

My money is on the 96v 120Ah System

This means that in building our bike, we need to keep it as light as possible not counting the battery pack. If we match the Lito Sora's weight and keep the bike to 200 lbs and the battery pack under 329 lbs, then we can get close to our original target goals.

 

[The Toecutter]

calculate these super cheap battery packs by size and how many we could posibily fit in the engine cradle area,with a motor mounted there and with the motor mounted on an extended swingarm and see what she might do.... :rockon: :rockon: VERYNICE WORK with the Math I'm impressed !! :rockon: :thumbup: HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 2200mAh 3S 20C Lipo Pack

 

[The Toecutter]

Looks like a speedway bike. I am sure the FZ6 has its genes there. Good find.
How heavy is it?

Sent from my HTC Desire S

Yes Sir she is a Long retired Flat Tracker a freind of mine gave me many Moon's ago.... I was about ready to let my neighbor haul it to the dump!! :BLAA:

 

[jtarkany]

calculate these super cheap battery packs by size and how many we could posibily fit in the engine cradle area,with a motor mounted there and with the motor mounted on an extended swingarm and see what she might do.... :rockon: :rockon:

Ok

12,000 W = 5,454v * 2.2 Ah (Using Shreveports Batteries) : Ok, I won't break it down by the cell this time but by the pack, there are 3 cells to a pack providing, 11.1v 2.2Ah so we would need 5,454v / 11.1v = 491 of these packs at a weight of .229 kg each = 112.439 kg * 2.20462262 lbs = 247.89 lbs for a cost of $4,170.

Volume would be, 103mm * 33mm * 24mm * 491 packs = 40,053,816mm3, I have no idea how big that actually is anybody want to figure out what those dimensions look like?

Ok, if you take the cubed root of 40,053,816mm3 then you get 342.1485mm to a side, so a box made up of these packs would be roughly 34.5 cm to a side or a little over 1' X 1' X 1'. That would be 30 packs laid side by side 3 deep (103 mm * 3 = 30.9 cm) x 10 wide (33 mm * 10 = 33 cm), and stacked 16 high (24 mm * 16 = 38.4 cm) with 11 packs left to stick wherever.

Is that the smell of batteries burning or my brain somebody better double check my math.

 

[thieu]

Ok

12,000 W = 5,454v * 2.2 Ah (Using Shreveports Batteries) : Ok, I won't break it down by the cell this time but by the pack, there are 3 cells to a pack providing, 11.1v 2.2Ah so we would need 5,454v / 11.1v = 491 of these packs at a weight of .229 kg each = 112.439 kg * 2.20462262 lbs = 247.89 lbs for a cost of $4,170.

Volume would be, 103mm * 33mm * 24mm * 491 packs = 40,053,816mm3, I have no idea how big that actually is anybody want to figure out what those dimensions look like?

Ok, if you take the cubed root of 40,053,816mm3 then you get 342.1485mm to a side, so a box made up of these packs would be roughly 34.5 cm to a side or a little over 1' X 1' X 1'

Is that the smell of batteries burning or my brain somebody better double check my math.

40 053 816 cubic millimeter = 1.414 487 163 cubic foot

Online Conversion - Convert just about anything to anything else - i love it!

 

[lonesoldier84]

*clears throat*



*ahem*





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk9LK7YCfN0]neeeeeerd - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Nelly]

*clears throat*



*ahem*





neeeeeerd - YouTube

That is very funny,
Disrespectful, but very very funny.
I am getting the kids up for school at the moment. To say it is my least fav task is an understatement.
You have brightened my morning.

Nelly

 

[jtarkany]

"neeeerd" :rof:

I am just a monkey plugging numbers into a formula, no grasp of the real concept, but getting rewarded with my banana when I'm done.

 

[The Toecutter]

Ok

12,000 W = 5,454v * 2.2 Ah (Using Shreveports Batteries) : Ok, I won't break it down by the cell this time but by the pack, there are 3 cells to a pack providing, 11.1v 2.2Ah so we would need 5,454v / 11.1v = 491 of these packs at a weight of .229 kg each = 112.439 kg * 2.20462262 lbs = 247.89 lbs for a cost of $4,170.

Volume would be, 103mm * 33mm * 24mm * 491 packs = 40,053,816mm3, I have no idea how big that actually is anybody want to figure out what those dimensions look like?

Ok, if you take the cubed root of 40,053,816mm3 then you get 342.1485mm to a side, so a box made up of these packs would be roughly 34.5 cm to a side or a little over 1' X 1' X 1'. That would be 30 packs laid side by side 3 deep (103 mm * 3 = 30.9 cm) x 10 wide (33 mm * 10 = 33 cm), and stacked 16 high (24 mm * 16 = 38.4 cm) with 11 packs left to stick wherever.

Is that the smell of batteries burning or my brain somebody better double check my math.

how far will 30 pack's get us and is it enough power to even try and go this route? i'm not trying to reach our goal yet I'm trying to build the cheapest prototype I can so we can find all of our weak point's before any real money is spent,because I know we are gonna have to learn alot before we can bulid anything close to our goal and having this test subject is the easiest and most exciting way to to that.... :rockon: :rockon:

 

[Nelly]

You need to stop messing about mate and get back to work,
Clearly none of us are capable lol.

Nelly

 

[jtarkany]

how far will 30 pack's get us and is it enough power to even try and go this route? i'm not trying to reach our goal yet I'm trying to build the cheapest prototype I can so we can find all of our weak point's before any real money is spent,because I know we are gonna have to learn alot before we can bulid anything close to our goal and having this test subject is the easiest and most exciting way to to that.... :rockon: :rockon:

30 packs at 11.1v = 333v * 2.2Ah = 732.6 W, so....732.6 W / 51.89 Wh/mile = 14.11 miles. However, I am not an EV or electronics specialist so I don't know if this would even be enough power to get the thing rolling. At some point we have to consider what the electric motor itself is going to demand with regard to volts and amps.

 

[Nelly]

30 packs at 11.1v = 333v * 2.2Ah = 732.6 W, so....732.6 W / 51.89 Wh/mile = 14.11 miles. However, I am not an EV or electronics specialist so I don't know if this would even be enough power to get the thing rolling. At some point we have to consider what the electric motor itself is going to demand with regard to volts and amps.

Now that's what I'm talking about lol.

Nelly

 

[The Toecutter]

30 packs at 11.1v = 333v * 2.2Ah = 732.6 W, so....732.6 W / 51.89 Wh/mile = 14.11 miles. However, I am not an EV or electronics specialist so I don't know if this would even be enough power to get the thing rolling. At some point we have to consider what the electric motor itself is going to demand with regard to volts and amps.

I've seen Drag EV's powered by cell phone batteries.... my electric Impact wrench is 9.6volts and will break lug nuts loose ... one of these batteries could make my 14lbs R/C car go over a 100mph these are not weak batteries at all they will pull the bike and me,just remembered a drag ev powered by drill batteries.... this video is my r/c brushless truck running one 7.2v lipo pack.... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHOonGUGip4]Project Short Wheelbase P.S.W. - YouTube[/ame]