eFZ6 Build Thread

[jtarkany]

Ok, a few of you have expressed an interest in attempting a forum build of an electric powered FZ6. With that in mind I am posting up this thread to recruit team members with expertise and/or resources, as well as track the progress of the build.

Shreveport1 will be doing the build and will be starting with an eBultaco to bust his Electric Cherry Now we ain't looking for no wimpy 12v to putt around the neighborhood bike, we want to build something like this Lito Sora. I am proposing a look similar to my FZ6 Fighter Concept:


With the following as our performance target:
Suspension, geometry and weight distribution must provide equivalent handling to the petrol FZ6
Range: 185 miles under normal highway and city driving conditions maybe 125 miles under spirited riding conditions
Charging Time: 8 hours 120v and less than 1 hour to 80% at a quick charge station
Top speed: 120 mph
Quarter mile: 11.5 sec.
0-60mph: 3.5 sec.
0-100mph: 8.5 sec.
60-0 mph: 116.5 ft
Horsepower: I am thinking at least a 40kW motor (approximately 55 hp), with about 65 ft/lbs of torque. While 1 hp is 1 hp regardless of the engine, the delivery and associated torque provides a different performance result when comparing petrol to electric. 55 hp electric should provide the equivalent 98 hp petrol
Weight: 459 lbs (same as FZ6 wet)

Recruitment still open for all interested parties. The current Dream Team consists of:
shreveport1: Will do the build
Jblk:Machinist
ChevyFazer: Metallurgist
jtarkany: Glorified Gopher and assistant handyman
lonesoldier: Spiritual Guidance, Comic Relief and Crash Test Dummy...er..a...Crash Test Officer
motogiro on electronics
vegasrider: photographer
krid80: retail sales of the end product
wavex: test pilot around our own dedicated test track (Just a warning that if lone is providing the track it will be all right hand turns on a Canadian Clover Leaf )
erci: celebrity endorsement....sorta....
stumbles and ozfazer on beer supply
humperdinkel on vegemite supply
wolfman to line up the models for photo shoot

I am estimating the following costs that we can hopefully offset by courting some suppliers and getting this stuff donated:

EV Motor with Controller (www.electricmotorsport.com): DC EMC-SM300, $2,500 : AC AC-50; $4,400
Battery Pack with Battery Management System (www.electricmotorsport.com): 30 LiFePO4 cells for a GBS 96v, 100Ah battery pack, $6,400
6-speed CVT (Hopefully salvaged off of something): approx. $1,500
Pot Box: Magura Twist Grip $50
Fabrication Materials and 12v sub system for auxillary equipment: $2,000

So roughly: $12,500 to $14,500. That means sponsors, fundraising, salvage, donors are a must!

 

[ChevyFazer]

Its on like donkey kong....fyi i have a good bit of aluminum sheet, stainless sheet, and a good bit of aluminum 1x1 angle left over from other projects that could be donated to the cause of fabin up random parts or what have you

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

 

[LeaN69]

Awesome! Let me know if you need help with sheet metal part design and possibly fabrication.

 

[going going.....gone]

Sounds awesome shame I'm in UK or I would offer my help. :-( good luck and all that.

Dan


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.975252,-0.029916

 

[The Toecutter]

Allright !! I will post some pic's later today of what I have gathered so far.. I'm going this afternoon to visit a freind of mine who repair's Electric Mobility Skooters He has several Dry cell batteries and control electronic's that could be useful... :BLAA: :rockon: :thumbup:

 

[teeter]

This is pretty f'n exciting. Do you have a base chassis to start with?

 

[jtarkany]

This is pretty f'n exciting. Do you have a base chassis to start with?

Shreveport mentioned that he might have a line on an R6 frame.

 

[Nelly]

Put me down for spiritual guidance :bow::iconbeer::iconbeer:,
Happy to donate a few dollars.
I want my sponsor name "Nelly" stuck on the left side of the tank somewhere.
[EDIT: I should have said on the left hand side of the Hybrid energy cell].
$20.00.

Sell sponsorship space to raise the cash. Guarantee that you will include all that donate in the credits. You got a winner.

Nelly

 

[jtarkany]

Put me down for spiritual guidance :bow::iconbeer::iconbeer:,
Happy to donate a few dollars.
I want my sponsor name "Nelly" stuck on the left side of the tank somewhere.
$20.00.

Sell sponsorship space to raise the cash. Guarantee that you will include all that donate in the credits. You got a winner.

Nelly

Great idea :thumbup:

 

[teeter]

Wait a minute.. This is in the R/C section.

I'm suddenly picturing Derrick Zoolander upset about how small the Electric Motorcycle for Kids Who Can't Ride So Good is.

 

[The Toecutter]

IT ROLL'S!! This is a Good start!! We have a rolling chasis now as our feild subject.... I put a measuring tape next to it to give you all an idea of the dimensions we have to work with.. I also have a nieghbor who haul's scrap iron and various junk so I put a bug in his ear for all electric powered junk He comes across to let me get a look before he chop's it up. :rockon: :rockon:

 

[The Toecutter]

Wait a minute.. This is in the R/C section.

I'm suddenly picturing Derrick Zoolander upset about how small the Electric Motorcycle for Kids Who Can't Ride So Good is.

LMAO!! :BLAA: I moved it to "What I learned Today" section because this is an experiment after all !! :rockon: :rockon:

 

[jtarkany]

Wait a minute.. This is in the R/C section.

I'm suddenly picturing Derrick Zoolander upset about how small the Electric Motorcycle for Kids Who Can't Ride So Good is.

Sorry, it seemed like the best fit

 

[ChevyFazer]

I was thinking (often a dangerous thing) but for overall performance weight plays a huge factor and i dont know about what kind of power cells are out there but i do know that they are heavy, and to get the range and power that we want it would probably take quite a few. (Keep in mind i know nothing about the batteries and what not im just thinking out loud) i was wondering if it would be a better idea to have some sort of icb engine powering a generator to either keep supply to the batteries (maybe less batteries and more range this way) or go with a larger icb and generator and use that to solely power the motors. I know this would stray away from keeping it 100% electric but in reality i know it would be possible to get the performance out of it being 100% electric but it will probably cost a great deal more going this route and still might not have the range vs adding a icb/generator. Plus almost all of the mass produced electric cars on the market today have some sort of setup similar to that.

Just a thought

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

 

[The Toecutter]

I was thinking (often a dangerous thing) but for overall performance weight plays a huge factor and i dont know about what kind of power cells are out there but i do know that they are heavy, and to get the range and power that we want it would probably take quite a few. (Keep in mind i know nothing about the batteries and what not im just thinking out loud) i was wondering if it would be a better idea to have some sort of icb engine powering a generator to either keep supply to the batteries (maybe less batteries and more range this way) or go with a larger icb and generator and use that to solely power the motors. I know this would stray away from keeping it 100% electric but in reality i know it would be possible to get the performance out of it being 100% electric but it will probably cost a great deal more going this route and still might not have the range vs adding a icb/generator. Plus almost all of the mass produced electric cars on the market today have some sort of setup similar to that.

Just a thought

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

I had these batteries in mind.... HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5000mAh 2S 20C Lipo Pack light weight Powerful and a constant voltage with a Burst!! an ESC will be required and a Balance Charger system.... :rockon:

 

[The Toecutter]

I had these batteries in mind.... HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5000mAh 2S 20C Lipo Pack light weight Powerful and a constant voltage with a Burst!! an ESC will be required and a Balance Charger system.... :rockon:

one of these batteries will run a 10th scale truck at race speed for 25 mins on a medim sized track 1/4 of an acre...... so who want's to do the math at how many we will need? :welcome: :thumbup: when I finish stripping the frame I will weigh it. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9BfKn3hdnE"]Electric Motorcycle Burnout - YouTube[/ame]

 

[lonesoldier84]

LOL @ track concept!!

Awesome.

Anyway, as for the bike, I'd offer technical assistance but I won't because if I did.......

 

[The Toecutter]

LOL @ track concept!!

Awesome.

Anyway, as for the bike, I'd offer technical assistance but I won't because if I did.......

LOL you got that picture right !! :BLAA: I will build it, But I ain't riding it very far,just enough to make sure it stops and goes, that's what Test Rider's do .... :BLAA:

 

[jtarkany]

I was thinking (often a dangerous thing) but for overall performance weight plays a huge factor and i dont know about what kind of power cells are out there but i do know that they are heavy, and to get the range and power that we want it would probably take quite a few. (Keep in mind i know nothing about the batteries and what not im just thinking out loud) i was wondering if it would be a better idea to have some sort of icb engine powering a generator to either keep supply to the batteries (maybe less batteries and more range this way) or go with a larger icb and generator and use that to solely power the motors. I know this would stray away from keeping it 100% electric but in reality i know it would be possible to get the performance out of it being 100% electric but it will probably cost a great deal more going this route and still might not have the range vs adding a icb/generator. Plus almost all of the mass produced electric cars on the market today have some sort of setup similar to that.

Just a thought

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

The 30 Cell, 96v, 100Ah battery pack that I listed in the original post weighs 221 lbs. Attempting a hybrid (generator with fuel supply, battery pack and electric motor) increases the weight, the amount of room needed and the complexity of the system with more parts and more opportunity for things to go wrong

I had these batteries in mind.... HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5000mAh 2S 20C Lipo Pack light weight Powerful and a constant voltage with a Burst!! an ESC will be required and a Balance Charger system.... :rockon:

Remember that the Amp draw from the motor, the Amp load available from the controller and the amp capacity from the batteries all have to match up. They may just work and provide us with a greater efficiency.

Using the information here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11709

The top speed of our conversion is primarily governed by our voltage 96v will get us up around the targeted 120 mph Top Speed.

Range is determined by efficiency, most electric motorcycles have an efficiency of between 75 - 150 Wh/mile (this is like mpg for petrol so it would mean that you are using between 75 and 150 Watt hours per mile).

So, if we want to go 185 miles we would calculate it by using the formula: Wh/mile X miles = W, using the average of the 75 - 150 Wh/mile above which is 112.5 Wh/mile multiplied by our desired range of 185 miles: 112.5 Wh/mile X 185 miles = 20812.5 W or 20.8 kWh.

To determine our Ah rating we would use the formula: kWh / v = Ah, so if we divide the total energy needed, 20.8 kWh by the voltage of our system, 96v: 20,800 W / 96v = 216.66 Ah which means that we are already underpowered using the 100 Ah batteries

Using a 96v, 100 Ah system we can calculate our expected range by working backwards using the following formula derived from the Ah formula above we get: v * Ah = W or 96v * 100 Ah = 9600 W or 9.6 kWh. Now that we know the Total energy of our proposed battery pack we can calculate the range.

So, W / Wh/mile = miles or 9600 W / 112.5 Wh/miles = 85.33 miles, and it gets worse, we don't want to completely drain our batteries so let's calculate leaving a 20% charge in our battery pack so by using only 80% of our battery pack our mileage drops to 85.33 miles X 80% = 68.266 miles.

So to get our desired range of 185 miles we either have to increase our efficiency Wh/miles our voltage, our Ah rating or all three. Increasing efficiency would be tough as 112.5 Wh/mile is already pretty darn efficient. So let's look at increasing voltage and Ah to get a 185 mile range out of 80% of our battery pack.

We know we want 185 miles at 80%, that means that 185 miles / 80% = a total range of 231.25 miles at 100% discharge. So using our earlier formulas we determine the following for a 96v system.

Wh/mile X miles = W: 112.5 Wh/mile X 231.25 = 26015 W or 26 kWh of total energy. kWh / v = Ah: 26kWh / 96v = 270 Ah. So we would need a 96v system rated at 270 Ah. That would be 30 - 3.2v cells rated at 300 Ah for a total cost of: $12,000 and a weight of 634 lbs

Let's see what a 144v system looks like: kWh / v = Ah: 26kWh / 144v = 180 Ah. So we would need a 144v system rated at 180 Ah. That would be 45 - 3.2v cells rated at 200 Ah for a total cost of: $12,000 and a weight of 621 lbs

Ok, now that we have determined that the vehicle weight would have to be monstrous, what range could we reasonably expect. I am guessing that the best we could hope for is 200 lbs for the vehicle (wheels, frame, motor, cvt, forks, handlebars, controller, BMS, etc.) and 315 lbs for the Batteries for a total weight of 515 lbs. That would put us into a 96v, 120 Ah system which would be 11.5 kWh.

11,500 W / 112.5 Wh/mile = 102 miles at 100% discharge and roughly 80 miles at 80% discharge at a cost of $6,500 and a weight of 315 lbs for the battery pack.

Using the 5Ah batteries that Shreveport is proposing to see a 100 mile range we would need 11.5 kWh Battery supply, these batteries are rated at 3.7v and 5000 mAh or 5 Ah so using the following formulas:

kWh / Ah = v: 11,500 W / 5 Ah = 2,300v, therefore we would need 2,300v / 3.7v = 621 of these batteries at a cost of $4,763 and a weight of 193 lbs.

To get our original target range of 185 miles (231.25 miles at full discharge) we would get: kWh / Ah = v: 26,000 W / 5 Ah = 5,200v, therefore we would need 5,200v / 3.7v = 1405 of these batteries at a cost of $10,775 and a weight of 436 lbs.

 

[jtarkany]

one of these batteries will run a 10th scale truck at race speed for 25 mins on a medim sized track 1/4 of an acre...... so who want's to do the math at how many we will need? :welcome: :thumbup: when I finish stripping the frame I will weigh it.[/url]

I ran the math in my last post (at the bottom) for these 5 Ah batteries, for a 100 mile range and a 185 mile range.