Do not remove helmet sticker

[08-FZ6]

OK, so I saw some discussion about "Do not remove" stickers in the thread about the Buell accident. I did a little research and found some sites that sell them. Here is one that sells it for $1 http://www.helmet-stickers.com/xcart/product.php?productid=2492.

Research also brought up a good point. Could having this sticker on do more harm than good? Here is a quote from another forum, "I think these stickers are a bad thing, here's why.
If the rider is conscious he can tell someone not to remove the helmet and ask someone to hold his head still, if the rider is unconscious he may not be breathing either, if the rider is not breathing then CPR needs to be started straight away and this is very important. There is also the secondary risk that if a rider has a bang on the head they may vomit, the airway has to be open or they may drown in their own vomit, to allow the airway to remain open the helmet must be removed."

Basically, it comes down to the judgement of the person on the scene which is scary.

What do you guys think, sticker or no sticker?

 

[Stumbles06]

Very valid points there. I guess we are at the mercy of motorists that stop to help a fallen rider... Now.. That is very scary.

Admittedly, there are a lot of motorists out there that have completed First Aid certificates, and could do a lot of good in this situation, but there are a helluva lot more than wouldn't have a clue.
I am going to do a First Aid course myself, not just for this reason (I should have one for work), and if anyone here has the time and money available, I strongly suggest doing the same thing.

:rockon:

 

[Soap]

I have to concur with what you said, there are good points as well as bad. Someone who has no idea of first aid etc who sees this sticker but doesn't realise the rider isn't breathing could end up costing the rider's life.

Personally, although I think in some respects are a good idea, I won't wear one as I thing it's bad karma, now that may sound ridiculous but I don't really want to prompt it.

 

[Caz]

I would hope that by the time help has arrived, someone has phoned the ambos and is getting instructions from them over the phone like I was the other morning with the buell rider. I will be getting a sticker, statistics show that 90% of people that require CPR on the roadside/accident location don't make it anyway, so it's sort off a no brainer (pardon the pun) for me.

 

[DaveK]

I was always under the impression that if i come off the bike and damage my neck, removing the helmet incorrectly could leave permanent damage.

I would rather drown in my vomit than live paralysed from the neck down

So i say sticker is a good idea, leave the helmet removal to the properly trained

 

[CCHOUSEKY]

Also, I believe they've changed the recommended pattern when it comes to CPR, correct? For us over here, anyway, I believe they've done away altogether with the mouth-to-mouth and gone to chest compressions only.

Man, this is important stuff...I've gotta find a link or something to make sure...

*edit* Ok...I was wrong. The American Red Cross recommends this pattern:

Open airway and give 2 rescue breaths
Compress chest 30 times
Give 2 rescue breaths
Compress chest 30 times
Continue cycles of 2 rescue breaths and 30 chest compressions

 

[segue00]

I thought the "do not remove" pertained to the sticker and not the helmet.

 

[DaveOTZ]

OK...

1.So the higher you go on your vertebral column the larger the canal is where the spinal cord resides. So if you have a higher cervical break you have a greater chance of partial paralysis or no paralysis, but more importantly if someone is going to move an area of the vertebral column that has incurred an insult this is where you have the most "wiggle room".

2.The helmet would most likely cover and protect most vertebrae down till C7 (the bumpy spine that protrudes pretty far from your neck) at this point you would still be breathing and unless they twisted the helmet to take it off you should still not suffer further damage.

3.If the worst happens and you have suffered a brain bleed you will want as much space as possible for things to expand.

Ultimately, the best situation (after a crash) would be for the person to leave you untouched. Most situations requiring CPR after a motorcycle crash would be worsened by CPR, while still keeping you alive. Brain injury+CPR= more diffuse brain injury. Higher cervical spinal damage+CPR would most likely cause more spinal buckling.

CPR class teaches you none of this aside from, local laws saying that you are covered in cases where you are competent to execute skills. I think someone said that 90% of MVA requiring CPR dont make it to the hospital, probably true, violently traumatic events don't do well with someone bending your ribs repeatedly.

 

[Zealadin]

Well I look at it this way...

Chances are if I have stopped breathing then I'm already dead, if you've had an accident bad enough to stop my breathing then its been pretty serious and its likely there is something majorly wrong. (Ie cpr won't fix it)
Also its very easy to check whether I am breathing without removing the helmet.

On the other hand if I'm lying there, with a neck injury and someone yanks my helmet off leaving me in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.... yea sorry as DaveK said

I would rather drown in my vomit than live paralysed from the neck down

Its pretty situational, you can do nothing and be paralyzed by the best of intentions, or put a sticker on and hope that whoever helps reads it and gets in touch with the ambo immediately, who will then talk them through what needs to be done, if its too urgent to wait for their arrival.

Also if you vomited they need to turn you on your side to properly clear your passages generally (thats what I was taught in a first aid course a long while back at least), and that could do massive damage both to your neck and back possibly killing you anyway.

Its a hard one because situations vary greatly and what saves one person could save another, the statistics Caz quotes about CPR seem pretty true, you rarely hear about anyone in a motoraccident being successfully revived, so I'll be protecting my neck first.

 

[Soap]

That's correct about the vomit, with the recovery position on your side, and as for the CPR success rate thats true also, there is only a small chance of success but not many realise this due to the glorification of television.

The thing is with CPR, they have changed what you are supposed to do several times so trying to remember is pretty hard, if your not breathing, like someone said, your in a bad state already.

 

[Andz]

I have one on my helmet and it's staying there.

 

[bmccrary]

Not to get off track, but I feel this is kinda related.

There is a cool tool that the medics in the UK have, and the AMA is requiring racers to wear called the Hats Off Device.

Larry Mason - Hats Off™ emergency helmet removal system

-bryan

 

[FZ1inNH]

I have high hopes that anyone at the scene who is not a trained EMT, Doctor, Nurse, etc... would just leave me alone until the pros arrive.

But, the sticker.... hmmm.... you'd almost have to have it on the front only. If it was on the back and you end up on your back then no one will see it. If it is on the front and you are face down, they would have to move you to get the helmet off but then they would see the sticker.

My guess is that if I am not breathing and need CPR, I'm unlikely to make it... Harvest the good organs and throw a party in my memory please?

All of you trained in medical, what is the actual success rate of reviving people with CPR? Let's say we're on a back road and the ambulance is 20 minutes out...

 

[chimneydoc]

There is a site on the web on how to remove a helmet of a down rider. If the rider is able to talk then there is usually no reason to remove the helmet, at this point his/her head should be stablized untill the mdics arrive. In the U.S there is a law called the Good Samaritian Law that provides protection to those in good faith tries to help someone and really screws it up.If you do come across a down rider check the A,B,C's. Airway, Breathing and Circulation and follow the Red Cross's methods for CPR if necessary. Oh and a quick prayer is always a must!

Doc

 

[kustom17]

....i guess i'm just not going to crash

 

[DaveOTZ]

All of you trained in medical, what is the actual success rate of reviving people with CPR? Let's say we're on a back road and the ambulance is 20 minutes out...

I don't know if they have a statistic for that, but also don't know how relevant it would be... Medical statistics are very sketchy, It would really depend on the damage done + pre-existing conditions.

If the person sustained a spinal cord injury and it was C5 (5th cervical vertebrae) or above life breaths may help considering diaphragm paralysis. But if there is internal bleeding and the heart stops chest thrusts could just cause increased internal bleeding. If there is a brain bleed chest thrust could cause a more diffuse injury.

Long Story short... Imagine everything that could make a bike stop running and multiply it by at least 50 for people...

 

[tasop7]

Man this is a morbid thread lol. I actually do appreciate everyone's comments. Lots of good points I never thought about before.

 

[Andz]

you'd almost have to have it on the front

There's no point in having it anywhere else really. I have seen guys with it on the back and pointed out to them the error of their ways.

 

[mcteague]

There's no point in having it anywhere else really. I have seen guys with it on the back and pointed out to them the error of their ways.

Maybe we need to add this one on each side of the helmet.

Tim

 

[speedjohnny]

I found such stickers for my helmets there:
Medical and Blood Group Stickers and Decals for Motorcycles, Bikes, Riders - Red Rock Decals

Pretty nice.