Decreasing radius turn. What is your technique?

[Karate.Snoopy]

I practice late/delayed apex, try to go in slow in unknown turns, try to give my self enough room to maneuver.Stay wide on entering the turn and until it begins to tighten up. look through the turn, and begin to accelerate when you can see the apex, which is quite late in the turn.

I have heard different things about how to further turn/lean the bike; in case you went in too hot into a decreasing radius turn

1) Roll off a bit so the front becomes more responsive to steering, and get back on the gas as soon as you have further turned the bike in. But wouldn't this would further take away from ground clearance in case the turn got tighter and you need to lean more?

OR
2) REAR wheel that turns a tighter radii. Use the rear brake slightly to make a tighter turn.

I couldn't find much on this in several books such as Sport bike riding techniques or Proficient motorcycling.

Found some interesting points on
http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tips/146_9604_motorcycle_corner_tips_as_the_turn_tightens/

Your input is appreciated.Thanks

 

[04fizzer]

Pray.....
:BLAA:

 

[Ssky0078]

I don't know if it's right, but I mentally break it up into 2 turns. I have the original plan of travel, and then an oh **** moment, then I let off the throttle (I stay in lower gears on unknown corners so that the engine braking will slow me,) establish a new line then gently get on the throttle and find my way out.

 

[Karate.Snoopy]

I don't know if it's right, but I mentally break it up into 2 turns. I have the original plan of travel, and then an oh **** moment, then I let off the throttle (I stay in lower gears on unknown corners so that the engine braking will slow me,) establish a new line then gently get on the throttle and find my way out.

This is what I currently do, but came across a bucket full of folks who told me that I should incorporate rear brake drag to further turn the bike without loosing ground clearance (comes in handy in case of a further tightening turn).

I try to practice late apexing etc but this trail braking business along with the rear brake drag is something I have not experimented much. I reckon I may need to go to track school to learn this but still wanted to see how folks handle these turns.

Btw I watched your video, 30+ riders must have been fun :thumbup:

 

[FIZZER6]

My technique is simple: Don't go into a blind turn fast. :thumbup:

simple and effective!

If one sneaks up on me I simply pucker up, lean more and give it more countersteer.

I'm no expert but changing throttle position quickly is not something you want to do in this situation. I do find that trail braking (light braking through a turn so as to keep the weight distributed evenly while gradually slowing the bike does help in squirrely decreasing radius corners.

 

[Karate.Snoopy]

I'm no expert but changing throttle position quickly is not something you want to do in this situation. I do find that trail braking (light braking through a turn so as to keep the weight distributed evenly while gradually slowing the bike does help in squirrely decreasing radius corners.

Do you use both the front and rear brake for trail braking?

 

[FIZZER6]

Do you use both the front and rear brake for trail braking?

Yes. If you only use one or the other the weight will shift to the wheel that is being slowed by braking. If you use them both evenly and LIGHTLY the bike will maintain the same balance through the corner while maintaining speed or slowing down.

I have also found that dragging the rear brake while slowly coming off throttle coming into a corner helps stabilize the bike. The FZ6 has a jerky throttle and chain and dragging the rear brake coming into a corner smooths out throttle transitions while cornering.

 

[Erci]

Let me start by saying that I have no track experience, so take my advice with a grain of salt (I don't know what sort of speeds and lean angles you're talking about when *attacking* these corners).

Any brake application (doesn't matter if it's just the front, just the rear or both together) will decrease your clearance if you go from being on the throttle to applying brake(s).

#1 thing to work on is entry speed. If you're perfect, you will start rolling on the throttle immediately following your turn initiation (counter-street) and will continue rolling on all the way through the turn.

Now.. we're not perfect and world is not perfect, so if you do find yourself in a situation where a tighter radius surprises you, my suggestion (for street riding) would be to straighten the bike (if your line permits it), then brake, then re-point and roll on through the rest of the turn.

This takes out the pucker factor of having to lean the bike harder or rolling off throttle while leaned over, or getting on brakes while leaned over.

If your line is bad and you have nowhere to go, the recommended thing to do is to maintain steady roll-on and counter-steer more to increase lean and thereby tighten the turn, BUT.. this is scary and hard to pull off.. especially if you start scraping parts.

YMMV

 

[pookamatic]

My technique that has worked so far... mentally yell as loud as you can the following:

SSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTT!!!!!

Add or remove letters to fit length of the turn.

 

[lonesoldier84]

Relevant:

Motorcycle Riding Corner Tips Skills Series - Sport Rider

Also, a good tip I got once during a performance riding school was about tightening your line mid-corner. Ease off the throttle a little and bring your weight a bit closer to the front of your bike. You should already be hovering quite close to where your inside mirror is, with your weight on your feet and your legs holding you to the tank (so your upper body is loose and floating and arms also loose not carrying any weight). If you've got good body position and your weight is being supported by the right things, then this shouldn't take much effort.

^will tighten your line without any change in steering input

Some more reading:

http://www.sportrider.com/tips/146_0904_controlling_cornering_arc_with_throttle/viewall.html

Relevant snippet:

The opposite situation is needing to tighten your cornering line while you're already at the lean angle limit that your confidence allows (note that for most but not all riders, this limit is below that of the maximum lean angle that either the cornering clearance of the chassis or the traction of the tires allow). Here is where the need for sublime smoothness on the controls is most needed. The degree of input while rolling out of the throttle to tighten your line is only a few percentage points of the quarter-turn available. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that neutral throttle is 17 percent of the total throttle opening. If you're nearing the physical limitations of the chassis, simply shutting the throttle completely could overwhelm the available traction by transferring more load to the front contact patch than the tire can handle. In this admittedly rare but critical instance you need to have the feel to relax the twist grip perhaps as little as two or three (or at most five to seven) percentage points of available throttle angle to tighten your cornering line. That slight reduction of throttle will transfer the bike's weight distribution forward, subtly compressing the fork and increasing the front tire's contact patch, both of which enhance the bike's ability to steer into the corner. These factors, in addition to the slight reduction of corner speed all combine to tighten your cornering line. Too much reduction in throttle, however, and the fork could compress to the point of compromising cornering clearance or overwhelming the available traction of the front tire.

 

[FinalImpact]

Excerpt from lones quote:
Too much reduction in throttle, however, and the fork could compress to the point of compromising cornering clearance or overwhelming the available traction of the front tire.

This is the Stock Forks all the way. Changing your line mid circle due to poor valving and god forbid you encounter surface irregularities or the radius quickens asking MORE of them while your at your max comfort level leaning. I have never drug on those but they sure make it hard to carry a smooth line and should that radius quicken, they show their true colors. They are not confidence inspiring.

 

[Ssky0078]

This is what I currently do, but came across a bucket full of folks who told me that I should incorporate rear brake drag to further turn the bike without loosing ground clearance (comes in handy in case of a further tightening turn).

I try to practice late apexing etc but this trail braking business along with the rear brake drag is something I have not experimented much. I reckon I may need to go to track school to learn this but still wanted to see how folks handle these turns.

Btw I watched your video, 30+ riders must have been fun :thumbup:

Thanks I have a new video up to show how not to do it. I hope it helps for the discussion it is in the first 30 seconds of the video. I came in a little hot, I saw the guy in front of me hit the brakes and it stood my bike up, then I tried to lean in and couldn't. So I hit the brakes harder and then basically started over. I was talking with the people at the first stop and there was a couple people that were caught off guard by that corner and a female rider actually panicked some how stalled the bike and dropped it (I don't feel that bad now, is that messed up?).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kiT4iR8-oA]Mistakes, Breaks, Cornerman and Ocean views - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Neal]

Thanks I have a new video up to show how not to do it. I hope it helps for the discussion it is in the first 30 seconds of the video. I came in a little hot, I saw the guy in front of me hit the brakes and it stood my bike up, then I tried to lean in and couldn't.

Your speed was fine. Brake hard quickly on the front ease off while turning in, slightly roll off the throttle and increase the angle later in the turn then get back on the gas.

If you were going too fast you would have ended up riding off the other side of the road into bushes, your response was just panic break and would have been disastrous if you were going in too fast.

Frankly, you didn't even need to brake at all you could have just turned it in and got on the gas. The guy in front of you was riding nearly upright no where near dragging anything on the ground.

Do not watch the rider in front of you. Focus on the road, your entry points looked poor probable because you were looking at the guy in front of you causing you to drift in his direction away from where you should be setting up for your turn.

 

[Ssky0078]

Your speed was fine. Brake hard quickly on the front ease off while turning in, slightly roll off the throttle and increase the angle later in the turn then get back on the gas.

If you were going too fast you would have ended up riding off the other side of the road into bushes, your response was just panic break and would have been disastrous if you were going in too fast.

Frankly, you didn't even need to brake at all you could have just turned it in and got on the gas. The guy in front of you was riding nearly upright no where near dragging anything on the ground.

Do not watch the rider in front of you. Focus on the road, your entry points looked poor probable because you were looking at the guy in front of you causing you to drift in his direction away from where you should be setting up for your turn.

Thank you for putting in good points concisely. It makes sense and the only downside of riding in a group is you can get distracted