CBR600F4i Wrenching Summary

[Zealot]

What an adventure it's been tearing this bike down slowly over the course of many weeks, waiting for free time and warm weather. I've had to replace many of the aging, cracking hoses with new ones. This is especially true for the throttle bodies and fuel lines - as I won't take chances with those. I tore the bike down to hunt the oil leak, and it would appear to have been the cam chain tensioner in which the bolts were not properly secured. As soon as I clicked the allen wrench into the bolt head, it turned. I wriggled the CCT around and could see liquid oil sneaking out between the block, it, and the gasket. The latter happened to be old and discolored, and that raised a lot of concerns in my mind about the quality of the shop service the bike had supposedly received.

Delving further, I tore the top of the engine block off and have made it to the (now removed) cams. I used feeler gauges and checked all the valve specs, and found that as a whole the intakes were way out of whack. Exhaust valves were more spot on, and while they were on the tighter side within tolerance, I feel that they would stretch slightly with higher ambient temperatures (not much, as I learned) and moreso when the bike engine is hot. I calculated out a whole whack of shims I'd need, and was able to cut out most of what I needed by simply using old shims under different buckets. In the end, I've only had to order 5 specific shims from Honda, in addition to a new fuel filter and gasket. The gas tank on the bike has been painted, and I'm wondering about how clean the inside might be. In the process of removing the pump assembly from the tank, is there a way to clean it out of any debris that may have gotten inside? I already had a whack of gnats come out in the gasoline while I drained it, to which I then strained through a cloth to clean.

While I'm waiting on new shims to come in, I'm getting the rest of the hoses replaced (those which I felt needed it), installing new levers, and have ordered a carb sync tool in order to get them where they oughta be post valve adjustment (as per the service manual). It's been kind of fun getting to wrench on a bike like this, and I'm hoping that it's as much of a blast to ride come spring as I hope it will be.

Anyways, that's all for now, folks. Thanks for reading! I'll share some more pictures soon, maybe some of the guts!

-Daniel

 

[MattR302]

If it still has the OEM CCT on it, you may want to replace that while you're in there. APE is the popular brand for replacements. I've got one waiting to go on my track F4.

 

[erburtt]

On a slightly different note, where did you get the shims? I know you're GTA area, a recent Cycle Canada article comes to mind (if you're not a reader you definitely should start), the editor tried to go in to his Toronto area shop and exchange some shims (Honda). They said they wouldn't do it due to the risk involved, understandable, but when he tried to just buy some new shims instead they said they wont sell them because the profits arent enough to bother with.

I've cleaned gas tanks by filling with nuts and bolts (ball bearings would be better), a rust cleaning and neutralizing solution, then shaking the hell out of it. (Dont use gravel, as I learned it doesnt like to come out nicely after), the metal bits you can get with a magnet later. That was on a generator, my classic project was pretty clean already, I just used a magnet to get the little traces of spot rust that had come loose over the many years.

 

[Zealot]

If it still has the OEM CCT on it, you may want to replace that while you're in there. APE is the popular brand for replacements. I've got one waiting to go on my track F4.

As it stands, the original CCT still has a fair bit of travel left on it, and there's no abnormal sounds or the likes. Until I start hearing something out of whack, I think I'm going to leave it. With some regular riding in the near future, I'll see how it holds up and go from there. I've heard of the CCT horror stories, and plan to keep my ears open!

On a slightly different note, where did you get the shims? I know you're GTA area, a recent Cycle Canada article comes to mind (if you're not a reader you definitely should start), the editor tried to go in to his Toronto area shop and exchange some shims (Honda). They said they wouldn't do it due to the risk involved, understandable, but when he tried to just buy some new shims instead they said they wont sell them because the profits arent enough to bother with.

I've cleaned gas tanks by filling with nuts and bolts (ball bearings would be better), a rust cleaning and neutralizing solution, then shaking the hell out of it. (Dont use gravel, as I learned it doesnt like to come out nicely after), the metal bits you can get with a magnet later. That was on a generator, my classic project was pretty clean already, I just used a magnet to get the little traces of spot rust that had come loose over the many years.

Thanks for the info on cleaning the tank. I'll have to see what I have on hand, although I must admit it isn't much.

In regards to Honda, I called Clarington Honda near my house (more like Bowmanville Honda, really) and the guy was more than happy to hook me up with shim sizes as close as we could get 'em. They ran me like $8 a piece and all was well, even before I decided to order the fuel filter and pump gasket. I might actually have a sub for Cycle Canada, or something of the sort which my girlfriend bought me a sub to for my birthday last year. Can't recall though since I'm not home to see it, but whoever that guy ran into at the Honda dealer in Toronto must have been a lazy douche. It goes against business practice to not order parts for a customer... Mark them up, use your dealer networks to get everything cheap, and charge the customer for shipping/handling fees if so inclined. Seems like an easy way to avoid the whole debacle; I wouldn't trust traded in shims myself though, just in case.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Shims are traded all the time and not unusual is if you have one a little tight, to sand it down on a flat surface. Of course you have to re-check the thickness with a micrometer...

I'd be bringing my business to another dealership after notifying the manager of your experience, (between the shims, the obvious lack of valve check, loose bolts, etc) which is BS big time

At $8.00 a pop, I'd look on-line and see what's out there...

 

[Zealot]

Shims are traded all the time and not unusual is if you have one a little tight, to sand it down on a flat surface. Of course you have to re-check the thickness with a micrometer...

I'd be bringing my business to another dealership after notifying the manager of your experience, (between the shims, the obvious lack of valve check, loose bolts, etc) which is BS big time

At $8.00 a pop, I'd look on-line and see what's out there...

Hmm. That's not a bad idea... Never really thought it would be wise to try sanding shims, but I could up some of the specs a little bit through that method. My exhaust valves in a lot of cases are good albeit on the tighter side. I could certainly touch them up a little bit that way if I got my hands on some emery cloth or fine grit sand paper. My intakes were straight borked (Like, .10mm where the minimum clearance should be .17mm) . Keep in mind that they're $8 CAD, or just under $6 US. It's really not that bad compared to the $10+ I was expecting.

Ultimately, in regards to the full service I had described to me... It was like a half ass full service. It's very likely I got lied too in regards to the bike's history, or the previous owner was lied to by a shady shop (I'd never heard of the place, for instance). Everything readily available for inspection is honest to god, spot on. It's the more intricate stuff, such as the CCT and Valves in which I'm finding discrepancies. As it stands, the bike is mine now and as such I've also inherited any associated problems - but I'm making due, and enjoying myself in the process. Getting into the Millwright trade, I'm pretty much a world class mechanic (or in the works) so being able to delve into my own little world of mechanical mysteries doesn't hurt. Plus, the journeymen I work with aren't too keen on letting me do things, so what's a guy to do - right?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Yep, a project bike and you'll know how most everything is set up/works.

The FJR guys sand the shims down when the numbers are close...(about the same set up)

 

[Motogiro]

Keep in mind some product are case hardened. This means that the surface is hardened at a specific thickness but the interior is not the same hardness. For that reason I would not remove material to resolve dimensional difference. I think it might be safer to use the shim dimension for the proper lash clearance.

 

[Zealot]

Keep in mind some product are case hardened. This means that the surface is hardened at a specific thickness but the interior is not the same hardness. For that reason I would not remove material to resolve dimensional difference. I think it might be safer to use the shim dimension for the proper lash clearance.

Hmm. That's a good point! For all we know, we could have just stumbled onto self adjusting shims though !

I've got the ones I need from swapping, and the few I had to purchase - and they're all close enough that I'm not particularly worried. Should be golden when everything arrives next week!

 

[FinalImpact]

Keep in mind some product are case hardened. This means that the surface is hardened at a specific thickness but the interior is not the same hardness. For that reason I would not remove material to resolve dimensional difference. I think it might be safer to use the shim dimension for the proper lash clearance.

^^ +5... True dat!

Was gonna say, I would not do that!
Granted the part seems small but because it is hardened, it will not "sand" easily and certainly not evenly which means it would change values as it wears... Hint the camshaft profile /ramp is not square like it looks. its angled slightly to promote rotation of the lifter bucket and valve. Thus they spin (lifter, shim, valve and springs) so there is wear.

That said, I would not risk it... I bought a kit w/ 5 of each shim from way to thin to way to thick for Yamaha FZ... It was like $60 USD (Hot Cams). Its in a STICKY; How to Adjust Your Valves thread. Worth having so you can reassemble that day.

 

[Motogiro]

^^ +5... True dat!

Was gonna say, I would not do that!
Granted the part seems small but because it is hardened, it will not "sand" easily and certainly not evenly which means it would change values as it wears... Hint the camshaft profile /ramp is not square like it looks. its angled slightly to promote rotation of the lifter bucket and valve. Thus they spin (lifter, shim, valve and springs) so there is wear.

That said, I would not risk it... I bought a kit w/ 5 of each shim from way to thin to way to thick for Yamaha FZ... It was like $60 USD (Hot Cams). Its in a STICKY; How to Adjust Your Valves thread. Worth having so you can reassemble that day.

I got the full Hotcams kit when I did the SV1000s I'm lucky cuz I only have 8 valve to do>

 

[Zealot]

^^ +5... True dat!

Was gonna say, I would not do that!
Granted the part seems small but because it is hardened, it will not "sand" easily and certainly not evenly which means it would change values as it wears... Hint the camshaft profile /ramp is not square like it looks. its angled slightly to promote rotation of the lifter bucket and valve. Thus they spin (lifter, shim, valve and springs) so there is wear.

That said, I would not risk it... I bought a kit w/ 5 of each shim from way to thin to way to thick for Yamaha FZ... It was like $60 USD (Hot Cams). Its in a STICKY; How to Adjust Your Valves thread. Worth having so you can reassemble that day.

I got the full Hotcams kit when I did the SV1000s I'm lucky cuz I only have 8 valve to do>

I bought a hot cams kit, although it didn't have sizes accurate enough - or in large enough quantities for me to use properly. I can't return it due to the policy on them (since people abused it in the past) and as such will either hold onto them for the future, or try to sell them on Kijiji.

I've taken a few pics of things I've been doing, in progress. For the most part while waiting on my shims to arrive, I've been replacing old hoses and whatnot with new ones. In a lot of cases they are brown, dry, and cracking, so it's for the better. A few more replaced since taking the photos, such as those to the coolant reservoir. You guys might also appreciate my custom CCT lockout tool, a la small red screw driver and clamp (3rd pic, right side). Physical interference prevents it from winding back out, and it's worked great for the duration thus far. I'm also going to need to figure out what to do in regards to drilling and re-tapping the tank mounting bolts, as you'll notice one has a sheared off bolt (previously held the steering damper under a LOT of tension) and one is nonexistent, held in place by some flat metal disc type thing before.

If you're interested:
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I would think, (for your tank mounts) up by the steering head, the aluminum would be pretty thick so drilling and tapping new holes would be the way to go.

You could also heli coil the holes for an even stronger mount with steel threads.

Have you looked at a parts list (say Partzilla), for the frame, that bracket, and mounting hardware? That'd let you know what your dealing with.

 

[Zealot]

I would think, (for your tank mounts) up by the steering head, the aluminum would be pretty thick so drilling and tapping new holes would be the way to go.

You could also heli coil the holes for an even stronger mount with steel threads.

Have you looked at a parts list (say Partzilla), for the frame, that bracket, and mounting hardware? That'd let you know what your dealing with.

I'm pretty sure I've got two tank bolts ordered in along with the rest of the nuts, bolts, fasteners etc from a previous order, and it's just a matter of getting the right size hole drilled and tapped. Helicoils would be a very good idea, and I'm going to look into those, as they would make any replacements in the future much easier! Thank you!

 

[Zealot]

Valves adjusted! Idle put closer to spec for the minute the bike was running! It fired up without a hitch, too!

Now, to sync the TBs and get the idle spot on. Then it's go time! (And by that I mean to get a safety at the shop... Blegh.)