can't help but feel guilty

[sdawg17]

My friend just got a bandit (and had only been riding for two weeks.. found that out a little bit later) so I invited him to ride with me. Seeing that he had ridden some short twisties I suggested the Ortegas. We make it up one direction and he seems fine, so I go ahead and enjoy the twisties a little faster on the way down... Eventually, I pull over and wait for him about halfway down. Minutes pass.. this is the worst feeling.. thinking "I hope he didn't crash".. then I see a car come and pull up behind me. The driver gets out and asks me if I was riding with a friend on a red bike. Was he dead? Conscious? Scariest few seconds of my life, he said he was okay, but the bike was off to the shoulder and he was laying there with it for now. He lost confidence going through one of those turns that suddenly gets sharper mid way, braked too hard, hit gravel on the opposite side and the bike slid. Forks were bent irreparably, handle bar snapped, lots of damage. the bike is salvage. He had a huge gash on his side, torn with a sinewous texture to the area... lots of dirt and gravel in it too. had to get major stitches there as well as a deep gash on the knee. The officer that responded along with two firetrucks said "this road is for experienced riders only. two weeks is NEVER enough time".. I can't explain how guilty I feel. Why the hell did I think that he'd be fine on this road? It didn't even cross my mind that he might not be ready yet. He took msf and has been riding every day doing fine and had done other roads similar in difficulty.. I don't get it. Anyways, be safe. He kept saying that he's just glad to be alive.

 

[Nelly]

I'm glad he's Ok, you still have to ride within your own capabilities. I am sure they teach that on the MSF. You didn't cause the crash.
It's slightly weird that he's your friend and you knew very little about his biking history?

Nelly

 

[OZXJR]

I'm glad he's Ok, you still have to ride within your own capabilities. I am sure they teach that on the MSF. You didn't cause the crash.
It's slightly weird that he's your friend and you knew very little about his biking history?

Nelly

I,m with Nelly on this one mate,not your fault ,but you should at least know how your friend rides before hitting the twisties .

 

[YamahaMAXdRPMs]

But, experienced or not, still not your fault. Even after months of riding, I couldn't hang with the guys I ride with. I did the heavy twisties at my pace, and they waited at the end. Number one rule: ride at a safe speed for your experience. He seems to have learned this the hard way. On the bright side, he got the scare of a crash out of the way. Not that he should feel happy about that, but having never crashed, I worry all the time about the unknown.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[greg]

next time it might be better to have the least experienced person up front, and let them ride at their own pace

that said last time i rode out with a friend, i felt a bit pressured as he was a more experienced rider than me, so i ended up riding like a dick

it's important to ride at your own level and make allowanced for others

 

[Nelly]

But, experienced or not, still not your fault. Even after months of riding, I couldn't hang with the guys I ride with. I did the heavy twisties at my pace, and they waited at the end. Number one rule: ride at a safe speed for your experience. He seems to have learned this the hard way. On the bright side, he got the scare of a crash out of the way. Not that he should feel happy about that, but having never crashed, I worry all the time about the unknown.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Crashing is easy mate, stopping after the crash bloody hurts lol.

Nelly

 

[DownrangeFuture]

Well, I would just assume he used "friend" to mean aquaintance. Anyway, just glad he's okay. All you can do is let him know you feel bad about any perceived pressure to ride outside his ability, and push him to get back on the horse. And maybe convince him that a 1250cc monster or a 750cc bike is a bit too big to start out on...

 

[MisterX]

But, experienced or not, still not your fault. Even after months of riding, I couldn't hang with the guys I ride with. I did the heavy twisties at my pace, and they waited at the end. Number one rule: ride at a safe speed for your experience. He seems to have learned this the hard way. On the bright side, he got the scare of a crash out of the way. Not that he should feel happy about that, but having never crashed, I worry all the time about the unknown.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

:Im With Stupid:

Although I've been riding for a few years now, I still take some of the crazier twisty roads at my own pace. Something about a high sense of my own mortality I guess. Although I'm not always the slowest in some of the groups I ride with, the other riders are always waiting for me at our nav points or break zones. I'm a major promoter of 'Ride Your Own Ride' and never go beyond your limits. It's ok to test those limits every once and a while. It's how we get better and faster.

Glad that your friend is overall ok. Sorry to hear that he went down. I don't think that you should be feeling guilty about him going down, but I can see where you're coming from just the same. If your friend hasn't taken an MSF course, I would highly suggest that he do so before getting back on a bike.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Dont feel bad at all in no way is it your fault, but at.the same time im.sorry for your friend and hope that didnt scare him from riding all together. And i know how "friends" can be by stretching the truth or lieing flat out by saying ya ive been riding for a while or ya i ride "fast". You got to remember fast is a relative term

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

 

[Erci]

He took msf and has been riding every day

One of the things we tell people in MSF is to ride their own ride and that group rides are not a great idea when they're just starting out.

If you are the group ride leader, it's a great idea to mention to the people your are riding with to go at their own pace. It's not about keeping up. If you're in position to have someone ride sweep.. even better! (last rider always stays LAST.. he's the rider you look for when you check your mirrors.. if you can't see him, you need to pull over).

What sort of gear was your friend wearing? Gashes shouldn't happen with good gear.

Don't feel too guilty.. remember what they taught you and your friend in MSF. Part of safe strategy is to ride within your limits. You can't be responsible for someone riding past their skills level.

Sucks that your friend went down, but sounds like he'll be OK.. flash wounds heal quickly enough.

Be safe out there and ride your own ride!

 

[GGSteelman]

One of the things we tell people in MSF is to ride their own ride and that group rides are not a great idea when they're just starting out.

If you are the group ride leader, it's a great idea to mention to the people your are riding with to go at their own pace. It's not about keeping up. If you're in position to have someone ride sweep.. even better! (last rider always stays LAST.. he's the rider you look for when you check your mirrors.. if you can't see him, you need to pull over).

What sort of gear was your friend wearing? Gashes shouldn't happen with good gear.

Don't feel too guilty.. remember what they taught you and your friend in MSF. Part of safe strategy is to ride within your limits. You can't be responsible for someone riding past their skills level.

Sucks that your friend went down, but sounds like he'll be OK.. flash wounds heal quickly enough.

Be safe out there and ride your own ride!

+1 on the group rides and gear. All gear, all the time.

 

[sdawg17]

What sort of gear was your friend wearing? Gashes shouldn't happen with good gear.

He had your basic jeans on and a sightly thinner than mine but genuine leather riding jacket he got from motorcyclecloseouts for about $130.. I'm guessing it wasn't tight or long enough around the waist to keep it from sliding up and letting the road get a bite out of his side.

He was riding a 600cc bandit, and you're right, more acquaintance than friend. I let him know not to feel pressured to keep up with me and that if he gets caught up in a turn here's what not to do/what to do.

Thanks for the support, I've never crashed going over 0mph , so this event keeps replaying in my head.

 

[Motogiro]

You might consider this also as a learning experience for you. I have less experienced friends that I ride with and although I make sure I stress to them to ride their own ride I repeat and emphasize I don't want to see them with a scratch! I tell them to have fun and gain experience. I tell them to just keep riding and learning and before they know it they will gain the skills. I make sure I make contact with them.

Although more experienced riders will have less likely hood to get into trouble there is always a combination of events that can put that rider in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sorry for your buddy's off and glad he's going to be okay.

 

[Susan]

I don't think you need to feel guilty over your friend's choice to ride over his skill level, though I know I'd feel the same way you do.

No matter which end of the waiting you're on, a beginner riding within his ability is better than anyone crashing. I guess your friend knows that now.

 

[DDS]

I don't think you need to feel guilty over your friend's choice to ride over his skill level, though I know I'd feel the same way you do.

No matter which end of the waiting you're on, a beginner riding within his ability is better than anyone crashing. I guess your friend knows that now.

You told him to ride his own ride. Nothing more you could do. I'm sure he was trying to keep up with you though. Hope he picks up another one

 

[trailhead]

I ride a lot of dirt, and about 50% of the time it's with a group. We have a few rules while riding, some apply here, some don't.

The main one is ride at your own pace. This part doesn't directly apply, but we make it easier for everyone to embrace that philosophy with the practice of each rider waiting at an intersection until the following rider approaches. That way you know the rider behind you knows which way to go, and by extension, every other rider behind you knows which way to go. Even if you're frustrated that the guy behind you is riding slow, you wait for him.

Granted, sometimes it gets a little tedious waiting for that last rider if you're the next-to-last guy, but we do it anyway because people have to have the time to learn how to ride. I had my time at the back, and now I take some time riding next to last. We just switch it up from time to time.

A few of the other rules that might apply here (maybe not) are:

1) If you are alone, go back to the last place you were together as a group. Not as easy to get lost on the roads as it is on the trails, but it could still happen.
2) Don't do anything stupid. However, this has a caveat. You might not know it's stupid until after you've done it.
3) Think about your past experiences and ride accordingly. Sort of follows #2.
4) Don't follow Scott down a trail if the answer to "Have you been down this trail before?" is "No, but it looks rideable." You can guess the outcome and therefore the reason for the rule.

Some was off topic, but I think my message here is pretty much like the rest of the guys.
1) Don't beat yourself up because of this. But DO learn from it. As a ride leader you should be fairly familiar with everyone's ability level.
2) Give the pre-brief to everyone. Where you're going (route), possible/probable stopping places, gas, known road hazards (gravel in the canyon, etc.), etc.
3) Act like a ride leader. Not meaning with the smackdowns when someone misbehaves, but rather ensuring everyone is doing ok, bikes are doing well, sometimes looking them in the eye to really understand that it's time to take a break, etc.

Good luck and use this lesson for what it is.

trailhead :iconbeer:

 

[Susan]

Hmmm. Obviously I agree with those who say the friend should've been riding within his ability, but I can also see Trailhead's point about keeping your eye on the person behind you. But even going slower, your friend may have wiped out on the gravel because, well, stuff happens.

To keep myself from going too fast through the twisties with one of my less confident friends, I ride behind her. It's not as exciting, but she goes at her own pace and always knows I'm right there with her.

 

[trailhead]

Hmmm. Obviously I agree with those who say the friend should've been riding within his ability, but I can also see Trailhead's point about keeping your eye on the person behind you. But even going slower, your friend may have wiped out on the gravel because, well, stuff happens.

To keep myself from going too fast through the twisties with one of my less confident friends, I ride behind her. It's not as exciting, but she goes at her own pace and always knows I'm right there with her.

And to support your point, go to my Garage and check out the pictures I posted with my Ninja, 2Fiddy. I was JRA (Just Riding Along) one night on the way home from my friend's house and next thing I know I'm watching the pavement cruise by next to my helmet and sparks coming from my pipe and the ground.

I hit some unseen gravel in the dark. Fortunately I wasn't hauling butt, only doing about 35MPH, which is reasonable for the road. Next thing I know I'm on the ground. It happened so fast I never even got my hands off the grips. My gloves escaped completely untouched. However, you'll see that my elbow and knee didn't fare so well. The knee was strictly because I didn't have riding pants on, and the elbow was the result of a poor fitting jacket.

When my elbow hit the ground, my arm slid inside the sleeve. The smile is the leading edge of my elbow guard that had gripped the skin. When my arm slid, it just ripped the skin right there.

trailhead :iconbeer:

 

[Susan]

Owie, I wish I hadn't looked at those pictures. They'll definitely be in my mind around the corners (and where I live, all the roads are corners).

 

[champion221elite]

Rule #1 when riding with another person is to "ride your own ride". When multiple bikes are together, is guaranteed that some riders will have more and some less skill than others.

An inexperienced rider trying to match pace with an experienced rider will almost always result in a crash, or at the very least, an "Oh $hit" moment.

You didn't cause the crash, instead you were merely on the same road at the same time as your buddy. The fault lies with your buddy since he exceeded his skill level and tried keeping up with you.