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Body position, skill, traction (loss of), lean angle = vid to discuss

FinalImpact

FinalImpact

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While on break I watched this with a friend. There are multiple crashes, some the are the same in nature, others are different. Lets pick a few moments in time and discuss what we see and what the rider could have done to prevent low-side/high-side.
Granted some made obvious mistakes, but not all. The "not all" are up for discussion...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9AfibzZtcU]Motorbike Crashes on Mulholland Drive - YouTube[/ame]
 
Very fun one to watch!! LOVE the guy at 2:57 trying to save it with his HAND :rof:

For the most part, the not-so-skilled riders in this one are low-side due to a multitude / combination of *standard* errors (target fixation, poor throttle control, poor brake application, poor body position), whereas the skilled riders are high-siding due to being greedy with the throttle.
 
Oh and another thing: to someone with no or little riding experience, this video might be deceiving in that it looks like crashing is inevitable and just happens out of nowhere for no reason :eek:
 
Without ever really pushing bikes myself or knowing much about the finer points of all of the title topics, it seems like most of the lowsides are just leaning too far as a result of going too fast or not using enough offset with their body (hanging off the inside to allow the bike a more upright position). The highsides would seem to make sense with the too much throttle explanation since at least in my head, too much throttle would cause the rear to swing out and roll the bike when it regains traction while sliding sideways.

This may be somewhat off topic but it makes me chuckle to see how easily a fair number of these folks hop right up, albeit probably doped up on adrenaline and will be quite sore tomorrow. It supports the physics that, aside from being thrown, you really only sustain a small impact (the same as if you fell over from the same height as your seating), a great deal of scraping as one slides, and perhaps another impact when you slide into something. If my family was to see this video, there would be a campaign for a while to get me to stop riding but there is a difference between risk and critical risk. I'm bound to get hurt one day, and the risk of a crash of some sort is high but the risk of something life altering is not as high as the general public would like to think.
 
So here's my thoughts...... Just listening, a lot that crash going in to the corner are in too high a gear, if they were in, say 1st or 2nd then smoothly rolling off the throttle would have provided some engine breaking and could have prevented the running wide or the attempt at heavy braking making the front tuck under.

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Senior said:
So here's my thoughts...... Just listening, a lot that crash going in to the corner are in too high a gear, if they were in, say 1st or 2nd then smoothly rolling off the throttle would have provided some engine breaking and could have prevented the running wide or the attempt at heavy braking making the front tuck under.

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Click to expand...

Not a good idea. Would have been much smarter to scrub off speed before entering the turn. Having to roll off when leaned over is an admission of carrying more speed than one should have into a curve (except for those unforeseen scenarios when someone or something goes into your lane).. very few people can calmly roll off the throttle in this situation.. most will chop it. Lower gear + higher RPM + throttle chop = more engine braking > more likely to upset the bike.
 
Erci said:
Very fun one to watch!! LOVE the guy at 2:57 trying to save it with his HAND :rof:

For the most part, the not-so-skilled riders in this one are low-side due to a multitude / combination of *standard* errors (target fixation, poor throttle control, poor brake application, poor body position), whereas the skilled riders are high-siding due to being greedy with the throttle.
Click to expand...

that and the camber of the turn disappears just before exit then drops out. you can hear the way the power comes on, when the wheel loses traction. the lean angle changes drastically because the road fades out of camber. i noticed it after the 5058450383598 of these videos that ive seen
 
High siders: Poor handling of a skid and a failed recovery due to panic which caused an overcompensation of steering

Low siders:
--Experienced: Not enough contact/Too much throttle
--InExperienced: Not enough smooth enough input, too much throttle

Those driving upright off into the dirt/guard rail: Panic over braking causing which pulled the bike upright and away from an angle that'd allow it to safely negotiate the turn. Usually a sign of inexperience or lack of confidence in a turn I'd bet.

This is all based on observation, but I'm no grand master myself and would likely do far worse than many of the lowsiders on there, I won't be doing anything close to that aggressive until I get new tires

Love the scooter guy and the harley with the saddle bags, I literally laughed out loud at those.
 
Last edited:
Easy, riding above their skill level and way too fast for the street.

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Lets hear it; the guy at 5:00 Opinions please.....

@ 1:26 - pretty crazy...
@ 2:50 - I can swim to safety! :thumbup:
 
First thing that I noticed is that this area must be the scene of many incidents if people are camped out to capture somebody's mishap. I was very impressed and at the same time felt inadequate by the level of gear most were wearing, however two of my favorites were the scooter and Harley dudes that were coming in too hot. The HD rider jumped to feet quicker than anyone. Maybe he did not want to look back at his damage. Although I definitely think some of the accidents were related to a change in direction and being out of position. The one corner that seemed to give most people trouble lures its prey in carrying too much speed then serves up a decreasing radius and neutral to negative camber curve. Imo.






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FinalImpact said:
Lets hear it; the guy at 5:00 Opinions please.....
Click to expand...

Watching without sound.. can't tell what he's doing with throttle, but he's adjusting lean angle abruptly through the middle of the turn because he's going wide. There's a good chance his grip is too tight on the bar, not allowing the front wheel to correct itself over road imperfections.
 
Erci said:
Watching without sound.. can't tell what he's doing with throttle, but he's adjusting lean angle abruptly through the middle of the turn because he's going wide. There's a good chance his grip is too tight on the bar, not allowing the front wheel to correct itself over road imperfections.
Click to expand...

There are several where you see them make steering input only to wash out the front ^^ that could be one of them.
A few over power the rear and go around backing it in.

Question: At these lower speeds; anyone see the harm in holding onto the bike during a lowside?

When I was racing stand up Jet Ski's, you never let go. Somehow I'm guessing these reflex muscles are ingrained in me and I can envision holding on. Worst case is you skid your legs with 400lbs of bike on you. Not good but jumping off for sake of jumping isn't a real net gain either. Or is it?
 
FinalImpact said:
There are several where you see them make steering input only to wash out the front ^^ that could be one of them.
A few over power the rear and go around backing it in.

Question: At these lower speeds; anyone see the harm in holding onto the bike during a lowside?

When I was racing stand up Jet Ski's, you never let go. Somehow I'm guessing these reflex muscles are ingrained in me and I can envision holding on. Worst case is you skid your legs with 400lbs of bike on you. Not good but jumping off for sake of jumping isn't a real net gain either. Or is it?
Click to expand...

Jumping is definitely not a way to go. Best thing you can do, let go of the bike and slide on your back.. avoid the urge to put your feet or hands down until you're done sliding.
Much MUCH easier said than done.

Most importantly, if you're looking for your limits on the street, GO DO A TRACK DAY! No guard-rails, no animals, no potholes or questionable road surfaces AND typically ambulance standing by.. should things really go wrong.

You'll be a better rider and you'll likely take it down a notch on the street. :thumbup:
 
A lot of people trying to ride above their limits/capabilities.
Around 1 minute into the video, there is a guys that overreacted when watching the police patrol ahead.Opposite case than minute 5:23!!!


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I've watched Rnickey's crash vids a few times looking for what caused the wrecks. It's kind of interesting, so I'll chip in my guesses. This is the kind of thing that if someone asked me, 'do you know why they wrecked?' I would say 'no, but I have a guess. Tell me what you think.' In other words I'm blowing smoke, so feel free to correct me!

-- 0:15 This guy is supposed to have wrecked due to his chain coming off his rear cog. My hypothesis: He suddenly gets bucked off when, in a freak accident, the dangling chain grabbed the rear cog. If he had closed his throttle then his engine speed would be way below that of the rear wheel, so when the two are suddenly mated back up...ka boom.

-- 1:16 Look at the skid marks - One of his tires appears to have caught the double yellows. Looks like the front end lost traction, then splat.

-- 1:46 Basically same as above. Front tire appears to slip as it touches double yellows.

-- 2:53 Did that guy try to catch his fall with his hand? If he had succeeded he would have probably broken his hand. I hope I don't do that...

-- 3:08 This guy, and a lot of others, look like they tuck their front tire proceeding a crash. In some cases the tuck happens so fast that I wonder if they suddenly jerked their bars trying to turn too fast. (Also 6:03, and many others).

-- 5:55 Again, looks like tires touched the double yellows.

As has already been said, I would guess most of the high siders got too greedy on the throttle, initiated a slide, then chopped throttle.
 
A handful of riders were going too slow- the bike flops over because they didn't have enough centripetal force to hold the bike up.
 
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