Bike won't start

[Alkali Fatahu]

Pull the injectors with the fuel rail and turn on key. Fuel should spray out (obviously a major FIRE HAZARD) if it does work/spray. Do so safely...

If it does, you'll need to check fuel pressure while assembled.

We're trying to determine if the rail/injectors are clean, it's possible the injectors are NOT opening-IE electrical issue..

Alright! I will do that now and get back to you.

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

Pull the injectors with the fuel rail and turn on key. Fuel should spray out (obviously a major FIRE HAZARD) if it does work/spray. Do so safely...

If it does, you'll need to check fuel pressure while assembled.

We're trying to determine if the rail/injectors are clean, it's possible the injectors are NOT opening-IE electrical issue..

You were right. The injectors have not been opening. After taking out the throttle bodies and turning on the ignition key, I did not see any fuel that would have shown the injectors opened. I tried starting the bike but there was no fuel splash. I applied 12V directly to one of the injectors and turned on the ignition key. The injector splashed fuel.
At this point, I tested to see if the injectors were getting low or no voltage. They were getting but it was 11.6V.
A few days ago, fault code 46 came up which has to do with abnormal power supply to the fuel injection system. It went away the next day. I guess the injectors are supposed to get 12V and not less.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

To my knowledge, power is always applied (with ignition on) to the injectors but are actually activated by the ECU finishing the circuit with a GROUND.

I would think voltage should be higher, especially since you did get an error code.
I'd pull the battery, fully charge it, then get it LOAD TESTED to make sure it's performing as it should..

Might want to check connections at the ECU, etc, as well.


Cliff or Gary will have to chime in for further if that doesn't work..

Some progress at least..


.

 

[Motogiro]

Scott has it exactly!

Charge and load test your battery.

There is a relay that supplies the fuel pump and injectors. The positive side of the fuel pump and positive side of the injector should show the same voltage. If the fuel pump motor is running there will be a slight dip in voltage. The ECU is directly attached to the fuel pump/ injector supply so it does monitor that voltage.
Do not apply voltage to the injector/s for other than an intermittent quick test. I would not imagine they'd like a steady on cycle for a long period.
The fuel pump controls and regulates on it's own but the fuel injectors are ECU controlled. The negative path of the injectors are determined through the ECU for frequency and pulse width calculated from rpm, throttle position, air temp and pressure sensors.

 

[trepetti]

Oh boy! How many times has the root cause been attributed to a detail missing from the original complaint?

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

Wow! This is a lot of useful nonformation.
Actually, I have two batteries. One is almost brand new and the other is old but good. I have charged the old one and it now reads 13V. The almost brand new one reads about 12.3V because of the repeated pushing of the starter button. Should I still do the test?:How about using a car battery?

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

Oh boy! How many times has the root cause been attributed to a detail missing from the original complaint?

I'm no sure I understand what you want to say.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Wow! This is a lot of useful nonformation.
Actually, I have two batteries. One is almost brand new and the other is old but good. I have charged the old one and it now reads 13V. The almost brand new one reads about 12.3V because of the repeated pushing of the starter button. Should I still do the test?:How about using a car battery?

LOAD TEST.. Static voltage means NOTHING if it won't take a load. It can show 13 volts, put a very light load on it, it drops to NOTHING... It's useless and your chasing your tail. BASIC'S FIRST..

Most auto parts stores / bike shops will load test for free...

DO NOT JUMP WITH A CAR BATTERY OF THE CARS RUNNING. It will likely cause other electrical issues.
Can you jump from a 12 volt car battery, not running, yes... if not a good connection, your wasting your time and will post info here that will only hamper your repair.

Get it LOAD TESTED, PERIOD..



FYI, AGM battery is what we have. The below chart shows the "state" of your battery.

Your 12.3 volts is 50-75% charged and DOES NEED charging (and a load TEST).

The 11.6 voltage (you posted) is less than 25% of the batteries charge..

.

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

I think I have already load tested the battery. I used a digital multimeter to test the voltage when the ignition key was off and the reading was 13V. After that, I turned the key on and tested again and the reading was 12.8V
The 11.6V that I mentioned was the voltage from the female sockets to the injectors. I pulled the sockets off the injectors. Then I placed the multimeter leads on the terminals and then turned the key on. The multimeter read 11.6 V from each of the 4 sockets. I wanted to know if this value were okay or it should be 12V.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

THAT, ^^^^, IS NOT A LOAD TEST.. Jeez...

Un-subscribed from this thread (as basic testing won't be done by the op)...........

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

THAT, ^^^^, IS NOT A LOAD TEST.. Jeez...

Un-subscribed from this thread (as basic testing won't be done by the op)...........

I don't have a battery load tester. I'm sure none of the people where I'm who do electrical stuff does.
But I can get a 12V car battery I'm sure has all the amperes needed to start the bike.

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

I h

I don't have a battery load tester. I'm sure none of the people where I'm who do electrical stuff does.
But I can get a 12V car battery I'm sure has all the amperes needed to start the bike.

I have been using this bike for over eight years now. I have always done troubleshooting on my own. Based on the experience I have, I'm double sure the problem hasn't gotten to do with the battery.

 

[Gary in NJ]

It was being suggested that you load-test the battery not just to identify a potential problem, but also to ELIMINATE one as well.

A voltage test by itself doesn’t provide enough information. A load test tells youif the battery can provide enough current to engage the starter, while at the same time power the ECU, the fuel pump and the EFI systems.

Yes, go ahead and use a car battery jump and see if the bike starts.

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

It was being suggested that you load-test the battery not just to identify a potential problem, but also to ELIMINATE one as well.

A voltage test by itself doesn’t provide enough information. A load test tells youif the battery can provide enough current to engage the starter, while at the same time power the ECU, the fuel pump and the EFI systems.

Yes, go ahead and use a car battery jump and see if the bike starts.

Alright and thanks!

 

[Motogiro]

I think I have already load tested the battery. I used a digital multimeter to test the voltage when the ignition key was off and the reading was 13V. After that, I turned the key on and tested again and the reading was 12.8V
The 11.6V that I mentioned was the voltage from the female sockets to the injectors. I pulled the sockets off the injectors. Then I placed the multimeter leads on the terminals and then turned the key on. The multimeter read 11.6 V from each of the 4 sockets. I wanted to know if this value were okay or it should be 12V.

When you test the pins at the injector plugs you were seeing the ground path through the ECU. Thats probably where you're seeing the wrong/lower voltage, The injectors have the full 12.x + vdc applied to them and the ECU controls the negative side or return voltage of each injector. The red with blue tracer wire should read the 12.x nominal voltage when tested. Your meter negative meter lead should go to the negative battery terminal or a chassis ground. The red with black tracer wire is the ECU side. Don't attach anything to those (red w/black)color wires. You can not test that side of the circuit with just a meter and the ignition on.

If you have fuel pressure you should see the injectors spray when you crank the engine with the starter. If you have seen spray after applying voltage to the injector but you don't see spray when injectors are plugged into the ECU the ECU may be bad. If the ECU isn't firing the injectors it could be because it is not seeing the CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) signal. If that were happening you would see a #12 error code.

 

[Motogiro]

THAT, ^^^^, IS NOT A LOAD TEST.. Jeez...

Un-subscribed from this thread (as basic testing won't be done by the op)...........

Scott! Lol! Come back! Lol!

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

When you test the pins at the injector plugs you were seeing the ground path through the ECU. Thats probably where you're seeing the wrong/lower voltage, The injectors have the full 12.x + vdc applied to them and the ECU controls the negative side or return voltage of each injector. The red with blue tracer wire should read the 12.x nominal voltage when tested. Your meter negative meter lead should go to the negative battery terminal or a chassis ground. The red with black tracer wire is the ECU side. Don't attach anything to those (red w/black)color wires. You can not test that side of the circuit with just a meter and the ignition on.

If you have fuel pressure you should see the injectors spray when you crank the engine with the starter. If you have seen spray after applying voltage to the injector but you don't see spray when injectors are plugged into the ECU the ECU may be bad. If the ECU isn't firing the injectors it could be because it is not seeing the CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) signal. If that were happening you would see a #12 error code.

I have figured out the problem. The fuel pump housing was dirty. I carry out back bashing on it and some dirt came out. Now the bike starts.

While the pump was inside the housing, I powered it and felt the discharge pressure with my finger. After that, I took it out of the housing and powered it again and felt the pressure. There was a difference between the two pressures. This convinced me there was something happening inside the pump housing. I carried out back bashing and some dirt came out.

 

[Alkali Fatahu]

When you test the pins at the injector plugs you were seeing the ground path through the ECU. Thats probably where you're seeing the wrong/lower voltage, The injectors have the full 12.x + vdc applied to them and the ECU controls the negative side or return voltage of each injector. The red with blue tracer wire should read the 12.x nominal voltage when tested. Your meter negative meter lead should go to the negative battery terminal or a chassis ground. The red with black tracer wire is the ECU side. Don't attach anything to those (red w/black)color wires. You can not test that side of the circuit with just a meter and the ignition on.

If you have fuel pressure you should see the injectors spray when you crank the engine with the starter. If you have seen spray after applying voltage to the injector but you don't see spray when injectors are plugged into the ECU the ECU may be bad. If the ECU isn't firing the injectors it could be because it is not seeing the CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) signal. If that were happening you would see a #12 error code.

Words cannot express how much I appreciate your patience, understanding and support. You have been super wonderful.

 

[Motogiro]

Thank you for the update! Great news! I don't have experience servicing the fuel pump but maybe someone will jump in or you can do a search here on the forum,

Also thank you to everyone that helped us get the troubleshooting done. Amazing what our forum members are!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just curious, from an earlier post , #17:

Quote: " I have inspected the filter and it is fine. Meanwhile, I bought a new pump and fixed it and still the won't start. " End quote..

Huh???



The internal filter-clogged:
.