Ball in rattle can noise after clutch engagement

[hobo7]

Hello all,

I'll preface this with I have done basic searching through the site for a similar issue but was unable to find one if it existed.

This is not the ticking noise (I had that before and turned the CCT which appeared to solve it being seized). Now I have a new noise that's surfaced many miles later.

Turning Bike on - OK
Bike running in neutral - OK
Bike in neutral revving to 6-8k, sounds fine (didn't go higher).
Bike in first, engaging the clutch and it starts this sound.
If I rev it up high and start to engage the clutch it gets louder sounding and faster. If I rev low and engage, it still makes the sound but less noticeable. But it very much sounds like the ball moving around in a paint can at high speeds.

I can take a video with my gopro this afternoon to assist, but wondering if you all might have ideas to help me troubleshoot or ideas for something I should catch on video first? This one doesn't sound as minor as the cam chain tensioner unfortunately.

2008 Yamaha FZ6 Raven with 8500 miles

 

[Nelly]

Hello all,

I'll preface this with I have done basic searching through the site for a similar issue but was unable to find one if it existed.

This is not the ticking noise (I had that before and turned the CCT which appeared to solve it being seized). Now I have a new noise that's surfaced many miles later.

Turning Bike on - OK
Bike running in neutral - OK
Bike in neutral revving to 6-8k, sounds fine (didn't go higher).
Bike in first, engaging the clutch and it starts this sound.
If I rev it up high and start to engage the clutch it gets louder sounding and faster. If I rev low and engage, it still makes the sound but less noticeable. But it very much sounds like the ball moving around in a paint can at high speeds.

I can take a video with my gopro this afternoon to assist, but wondering if you all might have ideas to help me troubleshoot or ideas for something I should catch on video first? This one doesn't sound as minor as the cam chain tensioner unfortunately.

2008 Yamaha FZ6 Raven with 8500 miles

A few people have had an issue with the clutch leaver excessively rattling in the housing. Could this be the issue? A video would be really helpful.

Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

First off, welcome to the forum! :welcome:

If its not the lever(hopefully it is), it somewhat sounds like the clutch assembly (under the right side cover).

With that said, the FZ clutch is EXTREMLY DURABLE and I don't think I've ever heard of one failing (maybe some clutch plates frying due to major abuse).

Just for S&G's, check the front sprocket nut under the cover and make sure it hasn't loosened up.

Can you advise, if the noise, is DRECTLY RELATED to the rear wheel /chain turning?

Basic question, ANY NEW WORK/ MODS done to the bike recently?? Missed any HARD gear changes recently? ANYTHING different / new, besides this noise?


The audio/vidio as Neil stated would be a BIG help...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Are you doing this on the center stand, or is the bike underway?

Just curious if the chain is really bad, making bad noises once underway. A way to eliminate that possibility is to loosen up the rear wheel and get the chain off the front sprocket and see what happens... Narrowing down the area of the noise, potentially the rear wheel / rear sprocket drive hub BEARING, would be a big help too...

(I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but the drive chain, if not maintained, will and can cause all kinds of noises/grief)

 

[hobo7]

Just for S&G's, check the front sprocket nut under the cover and make sure it hasn't loosened up.

Can you advise, if the noise, is DRECTLY RELATED to the rear wheel /chain turning?

Basic question, ANY NEW WORK/ MODS done to the bike recently?? Missed any HARD gear changes recently? ANYTHING different / new, besides this noise?

Are you doing this on the center stand, or is the bike underway?

The noise seems to be directly related to the rear wheel/chain turning and when it was in neutral the noise never occurred.

I was doing my tests while riding the bike but after my GoPro charges, I'll try it on the center stand as that'd make the video much easier.

No new mods as of 4,000 miles since I bought the bike in May-ish. I have changed the oil 3 times now (once when I bought it, and once after 3,000, and another trying to eliminate the previous noise, which I found to be the CCT.). I've also used oil stabilizer, and fuel injector cleaner and others since I've had the bike, but I doubt all of that is relevant.

I have also cleaned and lubed the chain at least 3x since owning the bike. I'm due up for another but haven't yet gotten around to it. Chain still seems tight and no issues with it specifically, that I can tell anyway.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The noise seems to be directly related to the rear wheel/chain turning and when it was in neutral the noise never occurred.

I was doing my tests while riding the bike but after my GoPro charges, I'll try it on the center stand as that'd make the video much easier.

No new mods as of 4,000 miles since I bought the bike in May-ish. I have changed the oil 3 times now (once when I bought it, and once after 3,000, and another trying to eliminate the previous noise, which I found to be the CCT.). I've also used oil stabilizer, and fuel injector cleaner and others since I've had the bike, but I doubt all of that is relevant.

I have also cleaned and lubed the chain at least 3x since owning the bike. I'm due up for another but haven't yet gotten around to it. Chain still seems tight and no issues with it specifically, that I can tell anyway.

Do you have approx 2" of total up and down play in the chain while on the centerstand? This is critical ..

I know the mileage is low BUT, if the chain was over tightened by the PO/mechanic, it can destroy the rear hub/sprocket carrier bearing. Its easy enough to change out, but your added info is pointing in that direction but your bearing is much, much worse...

Another member had different noises but we eventually narrowed it down to the carrier bearing. (I had a KLR with a wobbling rear sprocket, No noise, but very visable). He was very reluctant on changing the bearing (the shop gave him some BS that it was fine-it wasn't) but he could see the rear sprocket wobble (after I directed him to check it).

You can put it on the centerstand (make sure the chain has 2" of up and down total travel) and slowly spin the back wheel by hand. Put a screw driver near the sprocket as a reference point and look for ANY WOBBLING. You shouldn't see really any wobble, anything. IMO, more than approx .020" is too much. I'd be pulling the rear wheel and checking all the rear wheel bearings. NOTE: PO's have been known to leave out parts so should you pull the rear wheel, compare the parts diagram to whats actually on your bike.. Part #13 on the second pic is the hub bearing.

BTW, riding in the rain, you should re-lube the chain. The FZ like a clean, well lubed chain... I don't think I run more than 3-400 miles before lubing it. Its not used for commuting so I maintain it when I'm in the mood...

Double click on the pic's to enlarge them...

*With what your posting, I don't think I'd be riding the bike should a rear wheeel / hub bearing fail. With all the noise its making, it shouldn't be hard to pin down...

 

[hobo7]

I think that the culprit is definitely a loose chain. It was not easy to look to see what the issue was while riding, but now that I put it on the center stand, the issue seems quite obvious.

This is my first bike and I'm still learning. Apparently I haven't been lubing it up often enough, and I'm guessing since I often wash my bike with a water hose, I should probably have been lubing it up again each time I wash it?

Videos:
Bike running w/ noise - can notice the chain slack pretty clearly:
2008 Yamaha FZ6 Chain Slack Noise - YouTube
Demonstrating play in the chain:
2008 Yamaha FZ6 Noise Diagnosis pt 2 - YouTube

Apparently it was a lot longer since I checked my chain last than I remember

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The first video definitly sounds like the chain being dry and or the plastic guides to keep it off the swing arm worn.

And yes, it should be re-lubed after washing/riding in the rain. You really shouldn't be able to hear it, especially over the engine..

Re the chain tension, find the tightest spot (slowly turn the back wheel and you'll find where the chain is the taughtest).

Measure it with a ruler per the picture in the above post (or in your owners manual). It does NOT appear to overly loose in that video, but it should be checked WITH A RULER at the spot designated, it is IMPORTANT, DO NOT JUST EYE BALL IT..

Please post your results but from what I see, its a very simple fix...

And read the owners manual. There's a lot of pointers in there that can save you a bunch of $ and teach you about the bike as well..


If you need an OWNERS manual, here it is:

Boneman's FZ6 Site - Mods :thumbup:

 

[Nelly]

Looks like the culprit, funny how a noise can appear to be coming from one place and actually be coming from a completely different source.
Chain defo needs an adjustment. Fz6 chains don't like being over tight either. This will emit a machine like whirring sound if to tight, Good luck.
Neil

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

 

[FinalImpact]

Hobo, looks like Scott has helped you zero in on the issue. Did I get this right, 4000 miles on the bike and 4 chain lube sessions?

I've tried at least 6 different products and have never found one to go more than 400 miles. Some have the chain dry as bone by 250.

The newer teflon ones attract so little debris I usually apply 2 to 3 times before doing a full cleaning at say 600 miles. Just depends if I stayed clear of dusty roads. Looks like you may be needing s new chain and sprockets...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hobo, looks like Scott has helped you zero in on the issue. Did I get this right, 4000 miles on the bike and 4 chain lube sessions?

I've tried at least 6 different products and have never found one to go more than 400 miles. Some have the chain dry as bone by 250.

The newer teflon ones attract so little debris I usually apply 2 to 3 times before doing a full cleaning at say 600 miles. Just depends if I stayed clear of dusty roads. Looks like you may be needing s new chain and sprockets...

Quick hyjack, your up early, (12:56a) midnight shift??

Ok, back to the thread...

Very, very nice bike, especially a FIRST BIKE!

+1 on keeping the chain lubed up well.. The lube I use doesn't splatter or fling off, but does seem to need application more often...
When lubed fully, you can see the bottom run, while under way, literally flow like a wave of water (if that makes sense). It doesn't vibrate, skip, just nice and smooth while fuctioning.

BTW, the PO of my bike (my friends son-bought new) lubed the chain ONCE in 4,500 miles(never washed it either). The chain needed replacement at about 12,000 miles (lucky I got that long out of it)

 

[hobo7]

Thanks Scott and Neil for your input. And yes, FinalImpact, it sounds like I've been neglecting my chain significantly.

Strangely, I do not have a ruler that I'm aware of, so I'll have to go pick one up today and look into making adjustments as necessary. Then I'll follow that up with a cleaning and lubing session -- typical Saturday.

I'll plan on having some results by end of today to post back.

Thanks!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks Scott and Neil for your input. And yes, FinalImpact, it sounds like I've been neglecting my chain significantly.

Strangely, I do not have a ruler that I'm aware of, so I'll have to go pick one up today and look into making adjustments as necessary. Then I'll follow that up with a cleaning and lubing session -- typical Saturday.

I'll plan on having some results by end of today to post back.

Thanks!

Your very welcome!

BTW, CLEAN and Lube the chain BEFORE ADJUSTING IT. You'll also find under the front sprocket cover (three bolts), that it usually VERY gunked up under there..

You don't have to remove the shifter linkage. When re-assembling, DON'T PINCH the two wire looms at the rear of the rotor cover, its very easy to do so... :thumbup:

 

[hobo7]

You'll all probably enjoy this. It looks like I picked up a hitchhiker. Who wants to bet this was causing the noise? Frustrating lol :Flip:

Still hunting down my tape measure to make sure it's within spec.

 

[hobo7]

Just got done adjusting my chain. It was at probably 2.5" of slack to start, I got it down to about 1.7" now, and it does now have a different noise that's noticeable above the engine. The tick marks line up and it measures about 23.5" from the axle nut to where the swing arm mounts in the middle of the bike on both sides. Perhaps I need to loosen it up just a turn on each side.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just got done adjusting my chain. It was at probably 2.5" of slack to start, I got it down to about 1.7" now, and it does now have a different noise that's noticeable above the engine. The tick marks line up and it measures about 23.5" from the axle nut to where the swing arm mounts in the middle of the bike on both sides. Perhaps I need to loosen it up just a turn on each side.

I'd loosen it up some, I've found 2" is about right...

What is it under the sprocket cover, caught up, I can't tell?

 

[Carlos840]

Was that a walnut?

 

[hobo7]

Haha yeah it looked like a black walnut or at least something in that family. Stupid thing got caught in that cover and was just rattling around in there. At least it taught me some things about my chain maintenance and got me inspecting how loose it was

 

[FinalImpact]

Suppose it coulda been worse..... Pretty funny! Well from here at least! :spank:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkAP-CQlhA]Squirrel fills Antenna with Acorns - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Haha yeah it looked like a black walnut or at least something in that family. Stupid thing got caught in that cover and was just rattling around in there. At least it taught me some things about my chain maintenance and got me inspecting how loose it was

Have you ridden it since it was removed?

It certainly would have made noise bouncing around in there, echoing too!

I did send you a PM... ?