As Don King Used to Say

[SovietRobot]

And who gets to decide who gets a permit and who doesn't? Our system isn't perfect but unless you've shown you shouldn't be trusted with a weapon you have every right to own one.:Flash:

In most places, the local police chief or county sheriff gets to decide.
Although in most shall issue places, you apply to the state department of public safety or the like.

City/State/Federal governments draw a VERY BIG LINE between owning guns, and carrying them in public.

If you're not a felon/wife beater/mentally insane then it's easy enough to buy guns, and in most states, get a permit.

I agree, there are certain people who shouldn't own guns, but it should be innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around, as things seem to be going in this country.

 

[wrightme43]

Over here, you can't even protect your home from thieves ... (from a story on TV last night)...
$600 fine, conviction over citizen's arrest - Northern Territory News

This is the story that aired on a current affairs show...

A Current Affair - ninemsn Video

It's the one called "citizen's arrest"

That sucks man.

You are more than welcome here if you like.

Here is a nice quote on the same subject here.

Burglar shot to death - PoliceLink

Cuts down on
recidivism

One entry found.






Main Entry: re·cid·i·vism Pronunciation: \ri-ˈsi-də-ˌvi-zəm\ Function: noun Date: 1886 : a tendency to relapse into a previous condition or mode of behavior ; especially : relapse into criminal behavior

 

[OZXJR]

unless you've shown you shouldn't be trusted with a weapon you have every right to own one.:Flash:

There's the problem right there .

 

[CoFZ6]

Only in America.

My buddy and I just got back from a 140 mile round trip ride to Cabela's

That's really the amazing part of your post - I would never ride my bike to Cabela's. Where would I put all the wonderful stuff I would end up buying? :thumbup:

 

[wrightme43]

There's the problem right there .

I can understand why you would feel that way.

In my mind its backwards though. The problem is that the people who will use any type of weapon to harm others will not follow the law. They will use whatever is available to harm others.

Someone is just as dead when stabbed to death, beaten with a bat, a sword, a screwdriver, a bbq fork, a hammer, a chainsaw, almost anything can be a deadly weapon.

Guns are admittedly a very efficent way to end the life of animals and humans.

Should the good people of the world give up their right to defend themselves from the evil ones, because the evil ones do wrong? If the evil ones are going to do wrong no matter what, why shouldnt the good ones be allowed to stop them?

 

[Norm]

That's really the amazing part of your post - I would never ride my bike to Cabela's. Where would I put all the wonderful stuff I would end up buying? :thumbup:

Yea, I bought a couple of Xenon flashlights which I thought were pretty cool. Didn't really need them but since I couldn't buy any of the guns I felt I should have some kind of souvenir...j/k.

As regards guns I am not sure how I stand on this. The above posts are correct. The guy buying the Dirty Harry gun said in Maine, if you don't have a record, you can buy the gun but you can't carry it around unless you have a permit for a concealed weapon. He said he was going to use it for target practice at home. I think I am going to get one eventually. Not because I'm afraid of the repressive government, but mostly because I'm thinking everyone's got one but me. And with the economy going south and all...well you do the math.

 

[The Toecutter]

I think If you own a firearm it should stay under lock and key unloaded until the time you use it,and then cleaned and put back up imediatly.when i was 13 my Dads best freinds son shot his twin sister while playing with his Dads pistol they found in their van between the front seats.she was 11 years old.and John has to live the rest of his life with the guilt of killing his twin sister.

 

[Stumbles06]

Man, that's tough Shreve. I'm with you, if they're not being used, lock them up.

Guns don't kill people... People Kill people. Weather it's a kid who finds it and is playing, or the bad-a$$ down the road that goes whacko, the gun is the tool, but it won't pull it's own trigger.

But then, the laws can go extreme. Down here (Oz), to own a pistol, you must be licensed, (renew every year...$$$) and a member of a registered gun club (renew every year...$$$). You also have to do a minimum number of competition shoots at that club per year. Once you have done your shoot, you must strip down the gun, and store parts seperately in lockable gun safes... (cylinder seperate from the body of a revolver... slide and mag seperate from the rest of a semi-auto... etc).

When I was a member of a gun club here, it was $350 a year to join, plus fees each time you do a shoot. (used to do Service pitols shoots... S&W .357 mag).

Geez, you cant even carry a knife in your pocket here, they class that as a concealed weapon (has to be a certain blade length, can't remember what it is, but it's not very big). So, if you have a job that requires you to have a knife, you cant carry it on you!!!

Oh well, that's enough raving from me.

 

[The Toecutter]

Man, that's tough Shreve. I'm with you, if they're not being used, lock them up.

Guns don't kill people... People Kill people. Weather it's a kid who finds it and is playing, or the bad-a$$ down the road that goes whacko, the gun is the tool, but it won't pull it's own trigger.

But then, the laws can go extreme. Down here (Oz), to own a pistol, you must be licensed, (renew every year...$$$) and a member of a registered gun club (renew every year...$$$). You also have to do a minimum number of competition shoots at that club per year. Once you have done your shoot, you must strip down the gun, and store parts seperately in lockable gun safes... (cylinder seperate from the body of a revolver... slide and mag seperate from the rest of a semi-auto... etc).

When I was a member of a gun club here, it was $350 a year to join, plus fees each time you do a shoot. (used to do Service pitols shoots... S&W .357 mag).

Geez, you cant even carry a knife in your pocket here, they class that as a concealed weapon (has to be a certain blade length, can't remember what it is, but it's not very big). So, if you have a job that requires you to have a knife, you cant carry it on you!!!

Oh well, that's enough raving from me.

WOW!!! y'all definitly have some tuff gun laws down there in OZ.and the knife business dang!! Did y'all have a lot of violent crime to bring on these laws or has it allway's been like that?:hijack:

 

[Stumbles06]

It all got considerably tougher after a nutter named Martin Bryant went crazy with some guns (rifles I think) down in Tasmania back in '96.

Suddenly One Sunday - Crime Library on truTV.com

 

[The Toecutter]

It all got considerably tougher after a nutter named Martin Bryant went crazy with some guns (rifles I think) down in Tasmania back in '96.

Suddenly One Sunday - Crime Library on truTV.com

"a quiet lad and a bit of a loner," had killed thirty-five men, women and children and wounded another eighteen making him the most notorious spree killer of all time........... That is unreal!!! did they execute this whacko yet?

 

[Stumbles06]

"That is unreal!!! did they execute this whacko yet?

Nope, no such thing as a Death Penalty here. Us tax-payers will support the rest of his life in prison

Sorry to the OP for the :hijack: ... wish we had stores like that here... Just looking would be great :thumbup:

 

[Norm]

Nope, no such thing as a Death Penalty here. Us tax-payers will support the rest of his life in prison

Sorry to the OP for the :hijack: ... wish we had stores like that here... Just looking would be great :thumbup:

No worries. I was especially interested in what my non-USA brothers and sisters thought about this.

Shreve, that's a very sad story. My wife has held me off from buying a gun for 25 years. She's a pediatrician and told me year after year that the pediatric literature was replete with evidence that gun owning families had up to a ten times likelihood of the weapon being used for ill purpose (like your story) than for it's intended purpose (such as self defense against a burglar). I've been talking to her since I came back from my ride yesterday. She's softened a bit (my daughter's now in college and my son's a junior in high school) since the kids are older but still is not quite on board. She asked me if I would have bought a gun if they let me. I told her I think I may have.

 

[wrightme43]

"a quiet lad and a bit of a loner," had killed thirty-five men, women and children and wounded another eighteen making him the most notorious spree killer of all time........... That is unreal!!! did they execute this whacko yet?

Ok now lets examine this from another angle.

Had say 20% of your population been carring lic legal concealed deadly weapons, how far would this mad man of got?

Lets take it a bit further. What is stop him from getting a gun now? Laws.
Do laws work to prevent crime? Or do laws only work to punish criminals after the fact?

Now today with the draconian gun laws in effect one lone shooter/mad man is almost unstoppable untill armed law enforcement arrives.

Law enforcement reacts, they do not prevent crime.

What prevents crime?

Fear of immediate pain on the part of criminals. Punishment comes in the future and is pretty much ignored.

What stops a rape better?

The possibility of 3-5 years in prison IF IF IF you are caught, and convicted.

OR

3 center mass hollow point expanding rounds from a 38 special +P?

It boils down to this.

Would you rather wait untill after the crime is commited, and then possibley punish the perpertrator, or stop the crime before it is commited?



To address the child that killed another child. Thats bad. It is terribly terribly sad. It was totally preventable.

But lets just blow it out of the water here. More children die by drowning in swimming pools. Have any of your government leaders banned swimming pools, and made you disassemble them and store all the pieces in seperate safes, and join a swim club, and swim at a certain number of swim meets a year?

You have been disarmed because you government fears a armed population. All dishonest govenments fear a armed population. MINE especially.

 

[The Toecutter]

To address the child that killed another child. Thats bad. It is terribly terribly sad. It was totally preventable.

But lets just blow it out of the water here. More children die by drowning in swimming pools. Have any of your government leaders banned swimming pools, and made you disassemble them and store all the pieces in seperate safes, and join a swim club, and swim at a certain number of swim meets a year?

You have been disarmed because you government fears a armed population. All dishonest govenments fear a armed population. MINE especially.

A kid can't take a swimming pool to school and drown other kid's with it.you've got apples and oranges there.theres a kid on trial right now for killing his dad and his dads freind with a gun.I dont have a problem with gun's nor do I beleive there should be so many stupid laws keeping them out of law abiding citzens hand's while they are easily abtainable by criminals through the black market.I do beleieve that everyone that owns a gun should have too veiw pic's of the aftermath of a child that was killed by acidental shooting. then I beleive people wouldnt have a problem storing them properly when not in use.

 

[wrightme43]

But on the apples vs apples side they are both just as dead.

One is no more dead than the other.

I understand what you are saying, and respect your opinion.

However a unloaded gun disassembled and locked in a safe is not a functional weapon if needed in a crisis. Its worthless, like a helmet left at home in a highside.

Both have zero value since they can not perform their function.

 

[The Toecutter]

But on the apples vs apples side they are both just as dead.

One is no more dead than the other.

I understand what you are saying, and respect your opinion.

However a unloaded gun disassembled and locked in a safe is not a functional weapon if needed in a crisis. Its worthless, like a helmet left at home in a highside.

Both have zero value since they can not perform their function.

Let me start with I understand the title of this thread now!!!!"Let's get ready to Rumble"!!LOL...... Wrightme, I love a debate!!!! your right dead is dead.the thing is I don't hear much on the new's about a crazed swimmer drowning people at random.......as far as the gun being needed for protection I can see that point if your a police officer or a drug dealer,or live next door to a crack house.the best deterent for home burglary or invasion is a dog,or good alarm and locks.i have a freind of mine who is completly obsesed with firearm's he even had to show me the hook he put in his bathroom for his shoulder holster and how he could quick draw it if he had too!....LOL......he works all day with it strapped on him too.I'm 34 years old and i,ve never been in situation where I thought I sure do need a gun right now!I've had a gun pulled on me by 3 different men,and not once was I scared (also i didnt have a wife and kid's back then)they pulled those gun's because they were afraid of me.and when they left they were even more afraid of me.the point is I put myself in those situations because of my pride and bold additude.I've changed now and learned to avoid those types of people,if my freind keep's packing his gun around with him he's going to let his new found bravery give him a reason to pull it.(then thing's change for ever)once you take a life you can't give it back.let's just say you actually had to kill someone and you feel justified in your reason for doing so.You will stand before God one day and He will judge you for it.he did send Moses down from the mountian with Thou Shall Not Kill wrote on one of those tablet's.What a human judge say's is Ok he may not.point is there are a few senarioes in which a loaded gun would be a difference in life and death one being war another being a police officer on patrol.did you know more people died from being struck by lightning than gunshot's in the real old west?everybody had gun's!!! nobody wanted to get shot!that will never happen again in today's society of law's for law's and constant butchering of our constitutional right's,and left and right wing whacko's dictating our country,and it's the iresponsible ,disrespectful,, murdering, criminal's in our society that give them the power to do so.the only solution I can see is to start at a very young age with a proper education and oppurtunity to suceed in life to prevent creating more future criminal's that us law abiding citizen's would need a gun to protect ourselves from. (You can't respect anyone if you can't respect yourself)that's why criminal's do what they do.P.S. there are a few who are just evil and nothing can prevent that.

 

[SovietRobot]

I think If you own a firearm it should stay under lock and key unloaded until the time you use it,and then cleaned and put back up imediatly.when i was 13 my Dads best freinds son shot his twin sister while playing with his Dads pistol they found in their van between the front seats.she was 11 years old.and John has to live the rest of his life with the guilt of killing his twin sister.

If you have children, or anyone under the age of 16-18 who regularly goes in your house/car, then YES you should, and you are legally required to have them locked up.

But if I don't have children, or children never go in my house, I shouldn't be legally required to lock up my guns, as required by H.R. 45

Yes, H.R. 45, the biggest proposed infringement on civil liberties and constitutional rights since banning gay marriage.

 

[SovietRobot]

I have to say one thing about countries that ban guns completely, like the U.K.

You're ****ing nuts. Why? Because now only criminals have guns. Yeah, Criminals are criminals because they don't obey laws. What makes legislators and politicians think criminals are going to obey gun bans? Idiots.

 

[simonwb]

I was especially interested in what my non-USA brothers and sisters thought about this.

I think a good number of us in England think the fewer guns around, the better. If the citizens have guns, then the crims think they need them too, so do more of the police, fingers get lighter on triggers and it all escalates until kids get caught in the crossfire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rhys_Jones and even the 'professionals' shoot the wrong guy Jean Charles de Menezes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia